Is there any REASON gay marriage is wrong?

[SemiHumanTarget]

I think Gnome King just single-handedly shut down this entire debate with his incredible logic. The shellfish being an "abomination" part of the Bible is especially relevant because, as I recall, it occurs literally a few lines before the thing about man laying with another man.

In fact, I think the true discussion is not "what is not wrong with gay marriage" but "what is wrong with banning gay marriage" and to that I say, the ban on gay marriage ruins people's lives more than an average person, even a supporter, might think.

One of my best friends is a Japanese man who has been dating his American male partner for many years and yet, because they are denied the basic right to be together in the country of their choosing, they spend tens of thousands of dollars annually going back and forth, back and forth, from country to country just to spend a few measly weeks out of the year with each other. It's heartbreaking. The situation is even worse when one partner comes from a country where homosexuals are severely ostracized, or its very practice is punishable by imprisonment or death.

I find it incredibly ironic that conservatives are all about small government, unless it comes to something that makes them uncomfortable... then they demand that the government step in and illegalize it.

 

[Jonabob87]

...

I've already said I have no problem with civil partnerships/state marriages. My problem is when people start demanding that churches marry gay couples.

Well, if it's a state church then it can't really discriminate against homosexual members, but otherwise privately run churches can marry or not marry who- or whatever they want as far as I care. All that matters is the secular legal availability of a marriage to all persons, all that weird religious stuff I'm more than happy to leave to the religious.

Seems we're in agreement then, at least concerning private churches.

I brought up the examples of Christian inequality because you seem to think that Christianity is the big boy who everyone bows down to and does what they're told.

Not really - I would be a perfect example of that myself - but it does seem to contain the most vocal bigots in regard to condemning and persecuting homosexuality, which is one of the reasons I don't care much for it (or these segments of it, more liberal denominations probably exist as well, though they're bound by their scriptures in how others must view them), and find it a petty and calcified world view.

I certainly harbour no misconception that the conservative kind you seem to represent is at all influential or widespread here in Western Europe though, otherwise our societies would be much more bleak. But it's still the main bastion for homophobia and discrimination against gays in general, and thus I naturally home in on it when talking discriminatory ideologies.

Homophobia is a fear or hatred of homosexuals. Christians are to show love to all people, including those who hate us. Not homophobic.

End of discussion.

 

[GrimHeaper]

"Is there any REASON gay marriage is wrong?"
Is there any REASON gay marriage is right?

 

[Gigano]

...

Homophobia is a fear or hatred of homosexuals. Christians are to show love to all people, including those who hate us. Not homophobic.

End of discussion.

Might want to update quite a few Conservative Christians fighting against their rights on that then.

 

[R.Nevermore]

I disagree with using the term "marriage" because the idea of "marriage" as it is has been the same for thousands of years, and now we have to change it because... why exactly? Because less than 10% of the worlds population demands a change of ideas? What's next? "Marriage" to a goat? "Marriage" to your left hand? Once you break the defined nature of the language, where does it end?

Why not civil union? Why not a whole new word? Why must it be "marriage?"

By the way, that's Elton John's opinion, as well as mine. I'm not against civil unions, but I am against using the term "marriage."

Having gay marriage called soemthing other than marriage, something like 'civil union' or a new word implies they are less of a person than a man and a woman. To be truly equal, their union needs to be called marriage

 

[Baron_Rouge]

As a Christian, I can honestly say I really don't see what all the fuss is about. To me, marriage is about love. Everyone should have the right to express their love through marriage, regardless of sexual orientation.

As a Christian you should read where it says in the Bible

"The man said, 'This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman,' for she was taken out of man.' For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh."

Have one viewpoint on marriage, or the other. This is one instance where you can't have both.

What about the bit where it says to love your neighbour? Is it really a loving thing to do to deprive your neighbour of the same rights you have just because they have a different sexual preference? Everyone's entitled to their own interpretation of the Bible, of course, but to me it's about love. Whoever does not know love does not know God, because God is love. I don't think the sexual preferences of the members really matter, if it's a loving marriage.

 

[rednose1]

Because marriage is a religous custom, not government ( or at least should be.)

If your religion says something is wrong, and excludes it, hey thats religion. Don't like it, get a new one. Governements shouldn't be ran by religous doctrines, nor should they be allowed to force political correctness into a religion.

Since geting marriaged does confur governmental bonuses ( joint tax filing, power of attorney, etc.) Gay people should be able to have those benefiets too.

long story short, personally against gays getting marriaged, but between them and the Big Guy. Now as the benefiets of marriage, entitled to it like everyone else; to try and take it away is wrong.

 

[BKtheKITTY]

Gay marriage is an awesome idea. Right wing heterosexual couples just don't want any other groups making them look bad at it. Not that they need help. Although I must suggest that anyone who wishes to marry someone of the same sex is probably open enough to realise that God can see you everywhere, being omnipotent and stuff. Being married in the eyes of God, therefore, is a simple task. Certainly there should be at least an equal legal standing.

Furthermore, if people wish to marry body pillows or their DS, that should be fine too. Have you seen the pictures? These folks are not detracting from the gene pool. I would be more comfortable allowing my future daughter to marry knowing that anyone who wants to wed a dating sim character may do so, and I don't end up having to set fire to her hubby for having a videogame mistress. Even if she is on a 3DS.

No one will ever be good enough for my little girl though.

You all keep that in mind.

Edit: She can marry a girl instead though if she wants. Not that she'll be good enough.

Not even close.

 

[Azulito]

I'm not sure who said this, but I shall quote them.

"Gay marriage is fine and the act should be respected peacefully. Though, at the same time, the beliefs of the church must also be respected and their reason to deny the marriage of a same sex couple should be accepted. They should not have to change their core values for anyone."

Something like that.

 

[Jonabob87]

...

Homophobia is a fear or hatred of homosexuals. Christians are to show love to all people, including those who hate us. Not homophobic.

End of discussion.

Might want to update quite a few Conservative Christians fighting against their rights on that then.

Ach they can stick (Scottish term meaning "Screw them"). The Bible says they will be the least in the Kingdom of heaven assuming they get in at all (I think hate is the least desired quality in that there Kingdom).

 

[dsawyers9]

Some religions claim it to be evil or sinful.

Then you got the crazy people who think their opinion is the law and you have to follow it without question.

Another thing I see a lot in Christian and Catholic arguments is the bible says marriage is between a man and a woman.

Marriage is a term/word that is related to religion. Now if we made up a new term and called it ... "Union of Spouse" instead of Marriage, then their isn't an argument from a religious aspect. It also says (and I'm paraphrasing) That we should not or can not judge people in the eyes of God (higher power). So really, all these homophobes and anti-gay/lesbian groups are breaking one of their most important rules daily.

I say, if your human, you have the same human rights as every other human in this country. Minority is as important as the majority belief.

Also, freedom of religion allows people to claim a new religion and if they religion allows gay marriage, then the State cant do shit about it or the government. Its part of our laws. If someone were to break this law, this country(USA) would have major issues.

 

[Jonabob87]

As a Christian, I can honestly say I really don't see what all the fuss is about. To me, marriage is about love. Everyone should have the right to express their love through marriage, regardless of sexual orientation.

As a Christian you should read where it says in the Bible

"The man said, 'This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman,' for she was taken out of man.' For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh."

Have one viewpoint on marriage, or the other. This is one instance where you can't have both.

What about the bit where it says to love your neighbour? Is it really a loving thing to do to deprive your neighbour of the same rights you have just because they have a different sexual preference? Everyone's entitled to their own interpretation of the Bible, of course, but to me it's about love. Whoever does not know love does not know God, because God is love. I don't think the sexual preferences of the members really matter, if it's a loving marriage.

I think God's word is more important than your own personal preferences. By performing gay marriages in a Church in a Christian fashion is to completely contradict the word of God.

Showing love to a gay person is by accepting who they are as a human being and loving them as you would love anyone else. If the Christian faith says that homosexuality is a problem then regard it the same way you regard your own problems. We don't embrace our own problems, in the same way that we shouldn't embrace homosexuality, but we should still embrace the homosexual.

 

[Frostbyte666]

Er...not to burst anyones bubble but isn't divorce Henry VIII's idea and not God's because he couldn't kill 1 of his wives you know the whole catholic, protestant thing.

 

[dsawyers9]

"Is there any REASON gay marriage is wrong?"
Is there any REASON gay marriage is right?

Equal right act. so Gay marriage is right.
If your in the USA.
Also, as I claimed in my post, if a new religion was created and they allowed gay marriage, the state and government cant do anything because they're protected by our freedom of religion.

 

[Jonabob87]

I'm not sure who said this, but I shall quote them.

"Gay marriage is fine and the act should be respected peacefully. Though, at the same time, the beliefs of the church must also be respected and their reason to deny the marriage of a same sex couple should be accepted. They should not have to change their core values for anyone."

Something like that.

I think that was a quote from a gay MP, am I right? I got it through on a Christian e-mail newsletter thing praising him for being so objective on the issue.

 

[Azulito]

I think that was a quote from a gay MP, am I right? I got it through on a Christian e-mail newsletter thing praising him for being so objective on the issue.

I doubt that is where I heard it, I think it's just a case of the MP having similar views

 

[Baron_Rouge]

As a Christian, I can honestly say I really don't see what all the fuss is about. To me, marriage is about love. Everyone should have the right to express their love through marriage, regardless of sexual orientation.

As a Christian you should read where it says in the Bible

"The man said, 'This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman,' for she was taken out of man.' For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh."

Have one viewpoint on marriage, or the other. This is one instance where you can't have both.

What about the bit where it says to love your neighbour? Is it really a loving thing to do to deprive your neighbour of the same rights you have just because they have a different sexual preference? Everyone's entitled to their own interpretation of the Bible, of course, but to me it's about love. Whoever does not know love does not know God, because God is love. I don't think the sexual preferences of the members really matter, if it's a loving marriage.

I think God's word is more important than your own personal preferences. By performing gay marriages in a Church in a Christian fashion is to completely contradict the word of God.

Showing love to a gay person is by accepting who they are as a human being and loving them as you would love anyone else. If the Christian faith says that homosexuality is a problem then regard it the same way you regard your own problems. We don't embrace our own problems, in the same way that we shouldn't embrace homosexuality, but we should still embrace the homosexual.

Is it really embracing homosexuality just to give them the same rights as heterosexuals have? I just think that the real issue is if it's a marriage based on love, but I accept that my interpretation of the Bible is quite liberal and certainly wouldn't coincide with every Christian's beliefs. We may just have to do a rare thing in internet discussions, and agree to disagree?

 

[Gigano]

...

Ach they can stick (Scottish term meaning "Screw them"). The Bible says they will be the least in the Kingdom of heaven assuming they get in at all (I think hate is the least desired quality in that there Kingdom).

Well, as long as Christians don't actually do anything to discriminate them, then there's little real problem. They are of course entitled to voice their bizarre view that homosexuality is somehow a depraved sin, as much as anyone else is to voice that they consider Christianity one in kind (I for one consider condemnation of any kind of love between consenting adults to be a deadly sin).

So it'll simply be a "live and let live" scenario, with mutual respect of rights, but consistent affirmation of the clashing views to keep the mutual disrespect and contempt for the subjects of those rights alive and well.

I can certainly live with that; all the more opportunity for blasphemy.

 

[ProfessorLayton]

Because their religion says so.

They usually conveniently overlook the fact that I am not of their religion when making these sorts of statements.

Except the same people who claim homosexuality is wrong because their religion says so are the same people with tattoos (Leviticus 19:28, Deuteronomy 14:1) or who order rare steaks (Exodus 12:9). Honestly, the Bible says extremely little about homosexuals and when it does, it's in the same area where it says other things that no longer apply. For instance, when it talks about gays, just a little while afterward it says you should kill any woman who isn't a virgin when she is married which we obviously no longer do. The only reason any religious person would be against homosexuality isn't because the Bible told them to, it's because the church told them too, possibly right before asking them for more money.

There is literally not a single good reason for gay marriage to not be legal in today's society. It's extremely silly that we still worry about this nonsense. And even if the Bible said plainly "homosexuality should be illegal," it shouldn't. Because we shouldn't live in a religious society. Not everyone is your religion, so why apply (silly, outdated, and hateful) laws in a place where not everyone believes what you do? I do believe that caused something called the Dark Ages. Nothing they do bothers you, or it shouldn't. Why would you stop someone from being happy because you don't agree with what they do? No one stops you from practicing religion, do they?

Ugh, sorry, it just really bothers me that we even have to still say this. But believe it or not, people still don't believe in gay rights...

 

[RatRace123]

No, there isn't.