Is there any REASON gay marriage is wrong?

[Jonabob87]

I have no problem with gay marrage.

What I would like to know is where do the religeous get there hatred from, does it acctually say in the Bible/quaran/etc. that having same sex relations is wrong and you will burn for it or whatever?

In the christen bible is reads something like this


Any man who lay down with a man like a woman is an abomination and shall be put to death.Its in the book of Leviticus.Theres also some other ones saying don't sleep with animals or you die or don't sleep with a woman wile shes on her period.

It says "This is an abomination" not "He is an abomination".

Read my post again I said it says something like this not it is exactly like this.

Yeah I know, I was just helping with accuracy that's all.

 

[Dana22]

I think God's word is more important than your own personal preferences.

(..) neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woolen come upon thee. Levi 19:19

You may want to check your pants bro.

Cotton

And if a man shall smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he shall die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he shall continue a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his money.

Ex. 21:20-21

Do you own any slaves ? I sure do, as a true Christian. But remember to keep them alive for few days after fatal beating though ! Unless you want to invoke Gods wrath for wasting the livestock !

Are you thinking about what you're typing? First off that says "servant or maid". Use a better translation.

The slaves of this time were through debt or by selling themselves to write off debt. Personally if someone dicks around with money and gambling to the degree where they need to sell themselves, that's their bag. If someone dicks around with money they owe you and can't pay it back there are no banks to loan you money, or government hand outs. That person may be the only way to keep yourself stable. This is a completely different slavery to Brits stealing African people and putting them to forced labour.

On top of this dictating "don't beat your servants" rules is a pretty good way to do things. By definition a "fatal" beating would leave a person dead right there, so I doubt that's they mean.

The translation is good, because word "slave" derives from the medieval latin. Also, you presented a very nice justification for owning another human being. *golfclap*

 

[ItsAChiaotzu]

Gay people cannot reproduce, therefore they shouldn't get married or have sex ever.

Well THAT's a very rude way to put it. What about Men who are sterile or women who are infertile? Does this mean they too cannot marry or have sex? Its this kind of thinking why Young people in particular have trouble coming out about their sexuality.

As for me, I'm all for it, I see marriage as a bond between two people, not for political or religious reasons which sadly is peoples stand on stopping it Amongst other things such as homophobia or Naive thinking like my Quoted friend.

What makes you think we're friends? Are you that lonely that you just fabricate friends out of thin air?

Besides, calling me naive implies that I haven't thought my position through, which is wrong, I do believe infertile/sterile people shouldn't be able to get married, it would be pointless.

It was sarcasm, If you like I could just call you a Pompous Twat-Fuck if it pleases you.

So what about other methods like Adoption, Surrogate Parents, Sperm Donating, Have a female friend house the child of your other half? Are you saying we should abandon all those methods because there not all produced from sex?

That's exactly what I'm saying. God, people are so slow on this site.

And yes, "Pompous Twat-Fuck" has a nice ring to it, that and I'd much prefer to be one of those than friends with you.

 

[Wicky_42]

Marriage is religious, so it should be up to the relevant church if they want to offer that service, or if it goes against their beliefs, though I'm not opposed personally.

Marriage isn't religious, at least not any more. I'm an atheist and I can get married to an atheist if I want to, but only provided they're of the opposite sex. Marriages are made official when they are sanctioned by the state, not by the church. If a homosexual couple wants a church to sanction their union then it's up to the church to decide whether to do so or not, but that approval is not required for marriage.

Which part of the ceremony of "Holy Matrimony" isn't religious?! The bit with the prayers, the Vicar or God's blessing? I guess you're referring to going to a registrar and getting legally married without the ceremony. Fair 'nuff. Didn't really consider that much, thought 'civil partnerships' would give the same legal status as one of those.

 

[thylasos]

I can find no reason why it would hurt me or society in general if we embraced all kinds of love. I have biases but I'm not about to let them blind me.

That rather depends. Pedophilia should probably still be outlawed.

Yeah, that doesn't really come under the 'love' banner. Paedophilia itself is harmless, it's when people act on it that it becomes a problem, and I don't reckon 'child molestation', which is what you're referring to, comes under the 'love' banner.

 

[Ziadaine_v1legacy]

Snip

Let me guess, you're one of the nutjobs who believe the world must be perfect within order and anything outside of it is a down right blasphemy? Did you grow under a rock or are you literally a 69 Year old man who still dwells on his ancient old rights of society?

 

[Jonabob87]

I think God's word is more important than your own personal preferences.

(..) neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woolen come upon thee. Levi 19:19

You may want to check your pants bro.

Cotton

And if a man shall smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he shall die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he shall continue a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his money.

Ex. 21:20-21

Do you own any slaves ? I sure do, as a true Christian. But remember to keep them alive for few days after fatal beating though ! Unless you want to invoke Gods wrath for wasting the livestock !

Are you thinking about what you're typing? First off that says "servant or maid". Use a better translation.

The slaves of this time were through debt or by selling themselves to write off debt. Personally if someone dicks around with money and gambling to the degree where they need to sell themselves, that's their bag. If someone dicks around with money they owe you and can't pay it back there are no banks to loan you money, or government hand outs. That person may be the only way to keep yourself stable. This is a completely different slavery to Brits stealing African people and putting them to forced labour.

On top of this dictating "don't beat your servants" rules is a pretty good way to do things. By definition a "fatal" beating would leave a person dead right there, so I doubt that's they mean.

The translation is good, because word "slave" derives from the medieval latin. Also, you presented a very nice justification for owning another human being. *golfclap*

Why, thank you.

 

[ItsAChiaotzu]

Snip

Let me guess, you're one of the nutjobs who believe the world must be perfect within order and anything outside of it is a down right blasphemy? Did you grow under a rock or are you literally a 69 Year old man who still dwells on his ancient old rights of society?

Did I grow under a rock? I'm not a freaking plant.

Wanna know a secret? I've been messing with you this entire time.

 

[subtlefuge]

The only real reasons are religious in nature. God smiting and all that. Don't put much faith in it myself, but most religions don't make sense to me.

I'll disagree with that statement. The most vocal arguments have to do with religion. You know, what's covered on the news. Don't put much faith in networks, most of them don't make sense.

Ok, what are the other arguments? What purely logical argument is there against gay marriage?

There is no completely logical argument against gay marriage, but not all arguments have direct ties to religion or homophobia.

I agree with you.

 

[King Toasty]

how can it be rigt? it is a filth and emberecement for every strait couple that ever got maried couse it compares us to gay people same could be said for gay sex gay kissing and gays holding hands at the park as a couple
(for everyone who didnt understand THAT WAS SARCASTIC)
there is realy nothing wrong with it... i cant imagine what resnable arguments there are to be made against the rigt of two people who love each outher (gay lesbians or straits) to express theyr love in a ceremony espacialy if like in my country (israel aka "religios nuts controlled land") where it is the only way to be ligally reconized as a couple (no not religios wedings doesnt count in fact i know a few couples who arent considerd legaly maried because instead of a rabi they had the brooms grandpa to anounce theyr married...)

I was reading that, and I'm all, RAGE WARRR. Lucky you activated the /sarcasm switch. The rest of your argument is reasonably sound.

yea that was the meaning to show how stupid can people be the argument in the begining is my co students from a couple years ago i almost punched him when he said it in the discusion...

You have more restraint that I have. I kneed a guy in the balls for saying much the same thing once. He threatened to have me arrested for sexual harassment, it was hilarious.

:'D
I mean, I know people who are anti-gay, but they're smart and put up well-reasoned arguments. But with people who go ad-hominem (attacking the speaker, not the argument), I can't stand them.

Same. Intelligent anti-gay people are my favourite kind of people, they really are. I can spend hours talking (and even laughing) with them. Hell one of my best friends (well, one of several) is anti-gay and refuses to be around me and my boyfriend at the same time and doesn't like me to bring up my sexuality (and I don't cause I respect that about him), but we get along so well cause we're always challenging one another. It's awesome.

But then you get the dumb, stunted types who spout one or two arguments in lame terms ad nauseum until you just want to punch them to the floor, spit on them and leave.

Unfortunately, the dumb stunted types are the ones with the loudest voices. 'Tis a shame how the world works that way.

 

[imudkip]

By the way, marriage is not at all religious. Marriage predated Judaism.

 

[King Toasty]

Snip

Let me guess, you're one of the nutjobs who believe the world must be perfect within order and anything outside of it is a down right blasphemy? Did you grow under a rock or are you literally a 69 Year old man who still dwells on his ancient old rights of society?

Did I grow under a rock? I'm not a freaking plant.

Wanna know a secret? I've been messing with you this entire time.

Called it. Get your trolling ass outta here, bro.

 

[Kayla Herrera]

I cannot believe the amount of idiots on this thread saying the awful things like "gays can;t reproduce, therefore they shouldn't be allowed to get married." It doesn't surprise me though that there are so many ignorant people on this thread, like I predicted.

Gay Marriage should be a YES! I don't care what people say about "Well God says this", yeah well God said a lot of things and we don't practice EVERY SINGLE THING he said, I know this despite not being religious. The bible is SO outdated...

What about Love. Who cares what's natural? There are animals out there who mate with the same sex!! I guess it really is natural then, huh? Don't believe me, look it up, because it's true.

People who hate on this thread, are the ones who are going to hell. Even though I am not religious, I know a good Christian's duty is to treat everyone with kindness and respect regardless of who they are, so my understanding is, why are homosexuals different? God certainly didn't say "Except homosexuals" after that statement. Stop preaching if you can't actually follow what you preach. I have no tolerance for people of religion who hate on homosexuals. And I know a majority of it is religion, from my personal experience. God loves all, correct??? Homosexuals are not evil...get over it...

 

[ItsAChiaotzu]

Snip

Let me guess, you're one of the nutjobs who believe the world must be perfect within order and anything outside of it is a down right blasphemy? Did you grow under a rock or are you literally a 69 Year old man who still dwells on his ancient old rights of society?

Did I grow under a rock? I'm not a freaking plant.

Wanna know a secret? I've been messing with you this entire time.

Called it. Get your trolling ass outta here, bro.

How could anyone not "call it", I wasn't exactly going for subtlety.

 

[Griffolion]

I think God's word is more important than your own personal preferences.

(..) neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woolen come upon thee. Levi 19:19

You may want to check your pants bro.

You gotta love Leviticus! Loads of weird commands in there haha . But if you read it contextually to the people God was giving that command to. Those individuals had only just won their freedom from the Egyptians. Up until that time they were living under the rule of the Egyptians and so did not know how to function independently as their own society. Those commands, as strange as they are, were God's (very temporary) way of helping them function as a society. Also remember that those people were only a fraction above barbaric in terms of philosophy and thought, so stuff had to be kept simple for them to understand and carry out. I'm guessing that command regarding linen and wool had something perhaps to do with the way they fabricated linen and woolen garments and mingling the two may cause an unfavourable reaction with the skin that would cause them to become ill. It's the same with the command of eating pork. It wasn't allowed for a while because it was a forbidden animal by the Lord. This probably wasn't some arbitrary rule from God, it was more than likely due to the fact that their hygiene methods meant cooking and eating pork was a death sentence in terms of infection and food poisoning. But you couldn't explain that to a barely civilised bunch of people haha .

But a lot of what was in the Old Testament is, as you say and know, quite irrelevant to modern life now. The Old Testament should only ever serve as the background story of man's separation from God through rebellion and the violence and evil that all humans are capable of. It paves the way for the beautiful rescue and reconciliation story found in the New Testament in the story of Jesus. There are many golden nuggets of philosophy and thought in there, but most of it is just irrelevant rules, wars and king bloodlines!

I agree with the gist of what you're saying dude. You put it beautifully but Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law of Moses and that not one "jot or tittle" would be changed until the end of the world.

Now I think about it he said "Until my fathers kingdom comes" in a lot of translations, which was when the Holy spirit came down after the resurrection...I must read in to this.

Yeah I know what you mean. But then again there can be many interpretations to what Jesus was saying when he said nothing would change until His father's kingdom comes. It could mean that the sinful nature of man will not change and that the natural separation that comes of this between man and God will not change until He comes to finally sort it all out. I only say this because a lot of what the Law of Moses taught was revoked in either Jesus' teachings or the teachings of blessed individuals further in the Bible. The most poignant example i can think of is when Paul told the young Christians in Corinthians that it's okay to eat meat that hasn't been sanctified at the altar because they no longer needed to do that sacrificial ritual. Also remember that the Law of Moses extended all the way through the entire Bible and even to this day, Islam and Judaism still practice a lot of what the law of Moses taught. The law did say that eventually one would come to bring man and God together and I believe that was Jesus (just my belief). The Holy Spirit is God's spirit and commune with us on earth that guides us and gives us the strength to do really good stuff for God, it was a gift to us during our time on earth.

 

[Life_Is_A_Mess]

I don't mind it, and I can't understand homophobic people. It's not like they will be sexually assualted or constantly harrassed by homosexual people when they are casually taking a stroll through the neighbourhood. Everyone should have freedom of choice without being repressed or discriminated. Being homosexual in most cases isn't even a choice.

 

[King Toasty]

Snip

Let me guess, you're one of the nutjobs who believe the world must be perfect within order and anything outside of it is a down right blasphemy? Did you grow under a rock or are you literally a 69 Year old man who still dwells on his ancient old rights of society?

Did I grow under a rock? I'm not a freaking plant.

Wanna know a secret? I've been messing with you this entire time.

Called it. Get your trolling ass outta here, bro.

How could anyone not "call it", I wasn't exactly going for subtlety.

I know, but there are some dumb people on the Internet. I wouldn't have been surprised if it was your view.

 

[SoulChaserJ]

I'm going to borrow from Yahtzee here.

Short answer: No

Long answer: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

[Dana22]

I think God's word is more important than your own personal preferences.

(..) neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woolen come upon thee. Levi 19:19

You may want to check your pants bro.

You gotta love Leviticus! Loads of weird commands in there haha

Just like the "god hates fags" one, am I right ?

 

[Davesdepository]

Because their religion says so.

They usually conveniently overlook the fact that I am not of their religion when making these sorts of statements.

I can only speak for moderate Christians but there is nothing in the new testament that is against gay marriage. The fundies get all of their ant-gay talking points from the old testament, which is an interesting read and important to know where we come from but is for the most part rendered moot by the new testament.

It's not rendered moot. Jesus said that he does not intend to change a single coma or a single letter in the law. Without the Old Testament Jesus is just a wandering philosopher, his divinity stems from the fact that he's an heir to Adam, Abraham and David, has been foretold by the prophets and so on. I'm sorry to say that, but when you take time to study the Bible it seems that Jesus in fact did "hate fags". (Well, he would forgive them if they were seeking redemption, but he was capable of anger)

Not that I believe this.

I would like to point out that the New testament actually does speak about homosexuality in numerous places, Romans 1:25-27 being one. Other than that I will refrain from taking part in this discussion other than to say that the whole 'Jesus hates Fags' argument is completely unsupported by the bible.