Is videogame music is enough to hold an ENTIRE game?
- Thread starter DioWallachia
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Well, the main theme made me want to try out the Metal Gear Solid series, but I'm not sure that's related to your point.
Perhaps I'm simply misunderstanding you, but when you say, "Shouldn't the moment alone be enough to carry the game? or we need the music to tell us how to react/feel?" I get the impression that you feel that putting in music is some kind of crutch on the part a developer, used either because they couldn't craft a moment properly, or to cater to the lowest common denominator that they believe wouldn't get the moment without some extra help. This is patently wrong. This would be like telling an artist that he should be able to create a masterpiece that invokes the same feelings without the use of the color blue (no this is not a "games are art" argument, read on). Music is just one of the many tools the creators of a game can use to accomplish something. They can use it to invoke emotion, or they can use it as a indicator (as seen in Left 4 Dead). Using all the tools at your disposal isn't lazy, it's the opposite. It's putting the maximum amount of effort to create what you set out to create.
In conclusion, I don't understand the question, so let me respond with a few of my own: are pixels enough to hold an entire game? Are animations? Are character models, level designs, lighting effects, or mechanics?
Perhaps I'm simply misunderstanding you, but when you say, "Shouldn't the moment alone be enough to carry the game? or we need the music to tell us how to react/feel?" I get the impression that you feel that putting in music is some kind of crutch on the part a developer, used either because they couldn't craft a moment properly, or to cater to the lowest common denominator that they believe wouldn't get the moment without some extra help. This is patently wrong. This would be like telling an artist that he should be able to create a masterpiece that invokes the same feelings without the use of the color blue (no this is not a "games are art" argument, read on). Music is just one of the many tools the creators of a game can use to accomplish something. They can use it to invoke emotion, or they can use it as a indicator (as seen in Left 4 Dead). Using all the tools at your disposal isn't lazy, it's the opposite. It's putting the maximum amount of effort to create what you set out to create.
In conclusion, I don't understand the question, so let me respond with a few of my own: are pixels enough to hold an entire game? Are animations? Are character models, level designs, lighting effects, or mechanics?
Music works when it works. It's definitely a piece of the puzzle.
However, it's not always required, in fact, some parts of video games are a lot more poignant without music.
And sometimes, music isn't really needed. I mean, if it wasn't for how good the mario theme was, what did it really do to add to the scene that the visual design didn't already do?
There have been lots of great games (particularly in the oldschool PC era and early arcade games) that didn't have any music.
What I'm trying to say is, music is really only truly needed for games looking for a more cinematic experience. I could enjoy mario, even if I replaced the NES music with some random album I might have lying around that I feel like listening to at the time, it's just to fill a void.
In regards to carrying a game, I personally look to Sonic 06. The music in that game is pretty enjoyable but the rest of the game is intolerable.
However, it's not always required, in fact, some parts of video games are a lot more poignant without music.
And sometimes, music isn't really needed. I mean, if it wasn't for how good the mario theme was, what did it really do to add to the scene that the visual design didn't already do?
There have been lots of great games (particularly in the oldschool PC era and early arcade games) that didn't have any music.
What I'm trying to say is, music is really only truly needed for games looking for a more cinematic experience. I could enjoy mario, even if I replaced the NES music with some random album I might have lying around that I feel like listening to at the time, it's just to fill a void.
In regards to carrying a game, I personally look to Sonic 06. The music in that game is pretty enjoyable but the rest of the game is intolerable.
I would say either that or thisSean Hollyman said:Really, I alwas thought this was the one everyone knew..DioWallachia said:
Anyway, no I don't think music is enough to hold an entire game. Or that games NEED music either. There have been a variety of handheld games I've played without music and the game has held up.
What music CAN do is help to "better" a game so to speak. For example, the Long Walk segment and the Suicide Mission part in general are perfectly fine on their own, but with the awesome bits of music that they have, it makes it better overall.
Unless I am playing a horror game, or the music is really good(which is very rare), I just turn the music off and listen to my own. So in my opinion not only is music not enough to hold a game but its largely irrelevant, even in some horror games I turn the music off and just play with silence and the sound effects.
Any aspect of a video game done extremely well could "carry" the game.
Awesome music mediocre game mechanics? Dance Dance revolution, you basically did the same thing over and over yet it got so damn popular...
Awesome Gameplay no music? Old Rogue-like and text-based games like Zork for example.
Awesome music mediocre game mechanics? Dance Dance revolution, you basically did the same thing over and over yet it got so damn popular...
Awesome Gameplay no music? Old Rogue-like and text-based games like Zork for example.
Imo Gameplay > music > graphics. For example that shmup Thunderforce would be almost as good with Atari2600 blocky graphics but would fall flat on it's face if it had crappy music.
Good music can add so much to a simple or "casual" game
I think VGM can be roughly split into 2 camps, VGM to enhance the mood of the player and would be almost as enjoyable on its own, like a pumping rock track or a sad melody.
Then there's cinematic music that takes a back seat to immersion. (sometimes even no music is better)
My problem with some games especially western ones, is that they do the immersion style too much, even when it's just a dumb FPS like CoD and even when it goes uptempo it's no Han Zimmer but rather uninspired, for example (imo) that CoD vid posted just seems meh to me, but then it isn't as if anything more complex could be used with how loud the gunfire is.
Good music can add so much to a simple or "casual" game
I think VGM can be roughly split into 2 camps, VGM to enhance the mood of the player and would be almost as enjoyable on its own, like a pumping rock track or a sad melody.
Then there's cinematic music that takes a back seat to immersion. (sometimes even no music is better)
My problem with some games especially western ones, is that they do the immersion style too much, even when it's just a dumb FPS like CoD and even when it goes uptempo it's no Han Zimmer but rather uninspired, for example (imo) that CoD vid posted just seems meh to me, but then it isn't as if anything more complex could be used with how loud the gunfire is.
Actually, you can find the original Star Wars trailers without the John Williams music. Check them out, and I can think of no better proof what difference that music made for the movies.Pedro The Hutt said:
Well, I think it depends... like, take VVVVVV for instance, that game would be pretty boring without music, but the music still made me play that game 3 times at least.
On the other hand, I could go without music in Oblivion, especially all those times when a mudcrab comes to eat my nose and epic music starts to play, like if hell came and I'm the only savior for now.
I like for instances when music is used to underline the atmosphere of the game, as opposed to "here's a bunch tunes, now stick it in so players hears something" (like in Amnesia- the music is pretty much non existent, although it starts to play when there's a monster chasing you.... everything else is just ambience)
On the other hand, I could go without music in Oblivion, especially all those times when a mudcrab comes to eat my nose and epic music starts to play, like if hell came and I'm the only savior for now.
I like for instances when music is used to underline the atmosphere of the game, as opposed to "here's a bunch tunes, now stick it in so players hears something" (like in Amnesia- the music is pretty much non existent, although it starts to play when there's a monster chasing you.... everything else is just ambience)
Music in games is like pictures in books. You don't need that picture, and many books go without them, but it helps orient you and give you a better feel for what the author was going for.DioWallachia said:
However, I put more importance on music than book-pictures, because it's not so much "telling you how to feel" as much as it is "increasing your emotions".
For example, remember this scene in Silent Hill 2?
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While the scene would have been perfectly sad on its own, there's no denying that it simply wouldn't be the same without this music.
See also: The Myst series. The early ones were excellent examples of actually setting a mood (dat oboe), and the later ones took their exciting moments and used the music to turn it from "Whoa, that was awesome!" to "I think I just came."
<youtube=yXu6ZYy2WLg>
Honestly, with the exception of music/rhythm games, a game's music really can't hold an entire game. You don't really have to look too far for examples either. Remember the soundtrack to Alone in the Dark (2008) - it has one of the best soundtracks I've ever heard:
Yet the game is an infamously unplayable mess - good music can't change that. This can also apply to films. For example, does anyone here remember Tron Legacy? Probably not, because that movie sucked hard, even with Daft Punk's great score:
The best composers understand that music is meant to work on a subtle level - it can assist in establishing a unique and consistent tone or in reflecting an interesting setting. While music alone cannot make a game great, a good soundtrack can occasionally make the difference between a good game and an excellent game. Bioshock is a perfect example of this:
Had the game's score simply been a bagpipe cover of "Cotton-Eyed Joe" played on a loop, the game would still be good. Thankfully, it isn't. It has a great score, and Bioshock wouldn't be great without it. And again, this also applies to movies. For example, without its score, Beasts of the Southern Wild would only be a good movie; thankfully, it's a great movie, courtesy of the brilliant music it contains:
[small]Perfect for any Survival Horror game![/small]
Yet the game is an infamously unplayable mess - good music can't change that. This can also apply to films. For example, does anyone here remember Tron Legacy? Probably not, because that movie sucked hard, even with Daft Punk's great score:
[small]Disney's initial choice was Skrillex, but the test audiences kept committing suicide[/small]
The best composers understand that music is meant to work on a subtle level - it can assist in establishing a unique and consistent tone or in reflecting an interesting setting. While music alone cannot make a game great, a good soundtrack can occasionally make the difference between a good game and an excellent game. Bioshock is a perfect example of this:
[small]This music plays in my mind whenever I go to the basement of a library. Any library.[/small]
Had the game's score simply been a bagpipe cover of "Cotton-Eyed Joe" played on a loop, the game would still be good. Thankfully, it isn't. It has a great score, and Bioshock wouldn't be great without it. And again, this also applies to movies. For example, without its score, Beasts of the Southern Wild would only be a good movie; thankfully, it's a great movie, courtesy of the brilliant music it contains:
[small]They play this music on an endless loop at seafood restaurants.[/small]
In short, games (and films) cannot depend on their music alone, but they wouldd be much worse without it.
In answer to the question in the title: no.
I generally turn music in games down or off. I don't like my games to be musicy. I usually put the music volume on 10-30% voices on 100% and SFX on 50-80%. So maybe that gives a little insight into the importance I place on music in games.
In fact my least favourite thing about watching movies is that I can't turn the music down/off independently of the voices and sound effects. I am not musically inclined, I can't hold a beat, I am tone deaf, I don't understand the difference between a melody and a rhythm and I don't care to. I think music is ok but I don't tend to like other people's music.
So generally I'll turn the music in the game off and listen to my iPhone or a podcast.
I generally turn music in games down or off. I don't like my games to be musicy. I usually put the music volume on 10-30% voices on 100% and SFX on 50-80%. So maybe that gives a little insight into the importance I place on music in games.
In fact my least favourite thing about watching movies is that I can't turn the music down/off independently of the voices and sound effects. I am not musically inclined, I can't hold a beat, I am tone deaf, I don't understand the difference between a melody and a rhythm and I don't care to. I think music is ok but I don't tend to like other people's music.
So generally I'll turn the music in the game off and listen to my iPhone or a podcast.
Yeah but that's only because Crush 40 are awesome anyway and had been doing the songs since adventure who are now trapped to forever be apart of that doomed franchise.ProtoChimp said:
I would say yes, case in point would be the Mega Man franchise which has fantastic music AND because of this has spawned bands such The Protomen and Powerglove etc who base there songs around the tracks from the series. Mega Man of probably just become another platformer on the market that faded into obscurity if it wasn't for the music.
Examples...
and
and
Other good examples of Retro game music: Castlevania, Zero Wing, Final Fantasy 1-6 (Nobuo Uematsu is a god) and Metal Gear (solid as well)
Examples for each:
Castlevania
Zero Wing
Final Fantasy 6
Metal Gear
Zero Wing
Final Fantasy 6
Metal Gear
No, music is not enough to hold a game.
Graphics are not enough to hold a game.
Story is not enough to hold a game.
Gameplay is what will hold a game. If the gameplay of a game is good, the game is good. If the gameplay is bad, the game is bad.
Graphics are not enough to hold a game.
Story is not enough to hold a game.
Gameplay is what will hold a game. If the gameplay of a game is good, the game is good. If the gameplay is bad, the game is bad.