It actually exists! An Xbox 360 controller with symmetrical analog sticks

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ultrachicken

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Thunderhorse31 said:
ultrachicken said:
You think the 360 controller is perfect? What about the pile of shit we call a d-pad?
Megacherv said:
D-pad...I just...I just can't stand it, alright? Everything else is good, just that fucking d-pad...
Sheesh I've been quoted three times on this one page alone, I better explain myself before it gets worse. ;)

The d-pad has never bothered me. I don't know many games that implement it extensively and it's never caused a major issue while gaming - it's almost a non-factor for me. It might as well not even be there.

So yes, I admit that the d-pad sucks, but I use it maybe 5% of the time, so again I barely ever think about it.

RobCoxxy said:
From a PS3 Troll's perspective? :p
Erm, I love my PS3. The D-pad on the Sixaxis/DualShock is better, sure, but the analog sticks are inferior. That's all I'm saying. :)
Except that games like Fallout 3, Oblivion, Arkham Asylum, and Splinter Cell: Conviction, for example, use the D-Pad for weapon management, which I think is a big factor in a game.

What you said was that the xbox 360 controller was perfect. That's why you keep getting quoted.
 
Sep 14, 2009
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migo said:
No, the thing is, the 360 controller is comfortable if you hold it in your hands and aren't playing. People go off that first impression, and naturally have to justify their purchase of the 360 somehow, given that it was so prone to failure. With regards to the DualShock, you don't grip it, you let it rest on your pinky and ring fingers, it balances perfectly there, and you have your middle and index fingers over the shoulder buttons - you pretty much have only 4 finger joints in contact with the controller beyond contact with the actual controls. It's not even possible to hold the 360 controller that way, if it isn't the battery pack getting in the way it's the ill thought curves.
well when you are playing, are you not just holding the controller? unless im supposed to be spinning around like a helicopter twisting and turning doing cartwheels with it like the wii, i dont see how thats a negative? and wait what? this whole thing wasn't about the 360 or the ps3, just the controllers? no one buys a system based off of the controller, they buy it to play its games and enjoy its features, and doing exactly what you just said, it did not balance, it fell forward every time, as its front heavy, and even then, i dont use my middle fingers for the bottom triggers, since they slide off and dont feel natural going there. (all my friends do the same thing so i know im not weird when i do that.) and thats the whole point, i dont WANT 4 finger contacts with the controller, i like it melding to my hands like the 360 controller does, the weight balances out perfectly between every part of my hand and doesn't cause any kind of awkward cramps holding my hands up in weird positions midair as it doesn't touch the controller, and since when has the battery pack gotten in the way? i dont know what controller you use but that has never been an issue before with me or anyone i know (even the one ps3 fanboy i know personally.) ill thought curves..? they fit perfectly to human hands, i just held a ps3 and a 360 and did a full look over on them, and the 360 literally fits perfectly up until my thumbs touching the joysticks, which those are raised so they can't fit perfectly as it is.

migo said:
3rd party controllers can be hit and miss, but I've had a very solid one for PS2 made by Intec that I haven't had any problems with, beyond the turbo function sometimes being a bit of a challenge to turn off. I've seen some pretty crappy 3rd party controllers too, but they're by no means all like that.
true, my uncle used to have one of those years ago and it was pretty solid and was a very good non sony controller.


migo said:
You mean the Mad Catz one? Either way, the analog stick is pretty miserable for fighters, nothing compares to an actual arcade stick, and barring that for handheld the digital stick on the Neo Geo CD and Neo Geo Pocket. And for the PS3 you also have the option of using the PlaySega pad or the Sega Saturn USB Pad for fighting games.

i dont have any disagreement with fighting games or using different controllers for those, anyone who is serious about those games usually buys a fighting pad or something of the sort to play on.
 

Thunderhorse31

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ultrachicken said:
Except that games like Fallout 3, Oblivion, Arkham Asylum, and Splinter Cell: Conviction, for example, use the D-Pad for weapon management, which I think is a big factor in a game.

What you said was that the xbox 360 controller was perfect. That's why you keep getting quoted.
No I get it, other games like Gears or BlazBlue use it too. Inventory is probably the primary use of the d-pad in most games but I guess I wouldn't agree that it's necessarily a big factor - for me a "big factor" would be something along the lines of performing moves in fighting games or controlling direction in shooters and so forth. That's why I guess I haven't had much of an issue - a single directional press every so often doesn't quite compare to the constant use of the analog sticks. Again, I completely see your point, it just never bugged me.
 

migo

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gmaverick019 said:
well when you are playing, are you not just holding the controller?
No, you're also moving your fingers and thumbs. I sure wouldn't have anything cramp up if I were just holding the 360 controller for 4 hours, but it would get pretty boring. It's the movements causing the cramps, as a matter of fact the rather constant ones, which is where I can handle Tales of Vesperia a lot longer than some other games because combat is always from left to right, so I'm not spending a huge amount of time going from right to left, and it's that small motion that's responsible for the cramps. Down and right are fine, and up would cause blisters if I had a game that was so good that I just couldn't put it down.

unless im supposed to be spinning around like a helicopter twisting and turning doing cartwheels with it like the wii, i dont see how thats a negative? and wait what? this whole thing wasn't about the 360 or the ps3, just the controllers?
Not even about the PS3 controllers, just the 360 ones, although the DualShock is a point of comparison.

no one buys a system based off of the controller,
Ummm, you did see how the Wii was flying of shelves when it launched, did you not?

they buy it to play its games and enjoy its features, and doing exactly what you just said, it did not balance, it fell forward every time,
Yes, but your middle and index fingers prevent that because they're on the R1/2 L1/2 buttons, and since the DS3 is lighter, it's not as much of an issue. Do it with the 360 controller and it's not only uncomfortable due to the shape but much more of a strain because of the weight.

as its front heavy, and even then, i dont use my middle fingers for the bottom triggers, since they slide off and dont feel natural going there.
Some games don't require it, but if you need a quick reaction, you don't have time to change what your finger goes on. It becomes really obvious in games like Mirror's Edge.

(all my friends do the same thing so i know im not weird when i do that.) and thats the whole point, i dont WANT 4 finger contacts with the controller, i like it melding to my hands like the 360 controller does, the weight balances out perfectly between every part of my hand and doesn't cause any kind of awkward cramps holding my hands up in weird positions midair as it doesn't touch the controller,
It doesn't cause any cramps, you keep your hands relaxed, of course if you're used to gripping the controller tight from an Xbox controller it would be a problem. Also, you simply need access to the R1/2 and L1/2 buttons for some games, with the 360 it's next to impossible, and no game that was developed on the 360 as a lead platform or exclusively makes heavy use of the bumpers, only the triggers. Unfortunately, a few games do, and for those the 360 controller is a major problem. With the DualShock it's easy for a game developer to make use of all 4 shoulder buttons because it's easy to hold the DualShock to access all 4 shoulder buttons. There's no way to get such quick and easy access with the 360 controller.

and since when has the battery pack gotten in the way? i dont know what controller you use but that has never been an issue before with me or anyone i know (even the one ps3 fanboy i know personally.)
They get in the way of my fingers, so evidently my hands aren't as small as people keep saying they must be for the 360 controller to not work.

ill thought curves..? they fit perfectly to human hands,
Right where it goes into the trigger sheath it's narrow and hard, that digs into your fingers. Very poorly thought out.
Thunderhorse31 said:
ultrachicken said:
Except that games like Fallout 3, Oblivion, Arkham Asylum, and Splinter Cell: Conviction, for example, use the D-Pad for weapon management, which I think is a big factor in a game.

What you said was that the xbox 360 controller was perfect. That's why you keep getting quoted.
No I get it, other games like Gears or BlazBlue use it too. Inventory is probably the primary use of the d-pad in most games but I guess I wouldn't agree that it's necessarily a big factor - for me a "big factor" would be something along the lines of performing moves in fighting games or controlling direction in shooters and so forth. That's why I guess I haven't had much of an issue - a single directional press every so often doesn't quite compare to the constant use of the analog sticks. Again, I completely see your point, it just never bugged me.
I dunno, if I want to quickly change back to the main gun in Gears to chainsaw a grub, I'd rather it not accidentally load a different one because it registered down. It's hard enough getting the chainsaw revved up with bullets flying in at you as is.

Also, in Dead Rising I'd rather not drop my weapon when I want to answer a call from Otis. It took me a while to realise it was the controller registering the wrong press instead of the radio taking up an inventory slot while held forcing the weapon to be dropped.

If you have inventory switching on the D-Pad it's so you have quick access to it when going through an inventory menu won't do, having that be inaccurate can get you killed, which is about as serious as the concerns for moving in a platform game, and the GameCube controller is infinitely better in that aspect. I can also hold it upside down and controll the left stick with my fingers rather than thumb and easily find the A and B buttons due to the unusual shape (while X and Y are a little harder, but much less used anyway).
 

Megacherv

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Thunderhorse31 said:
ultrachicken said:
You think the 360 controller is perfect? What about the pile of shit we call a d-pad?
Megacherv said:
D-pad...I just...I just can't stand it, alright? Everything else is good, just that fucking d-pad...
Sheesh I've been quoted three times on this one page alone, I better explain myself before it gets worse. ;)

The d-pad has never bothered me. I don't know many games that implement it extensively and it's never caused a major issue while gaming - it's almost a non-factor for me. It might as well not even be there.

So yes, I admit that the d-pad sucks, but I use it maybe 5% of the time, so again I barely ever think about it.

RobCoxxy said:
From a PS3 Troll's perspective? :p
Erm, I love my PS3. The D-pad on the Sixaxis/DualShock is better, sure, but the analog sticks are inferior. That's all I'm saying. :)
That seems fair, although I don't think that the PS3's analog sticks are that bad, since I've used them since I got a PS2. Still, it's mainly down to preference
 

AngelSword

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Oct 19, 2008
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As awkward as this may seem, I'm going to side with Microsoft on this one. When the generation change happened, Microsoft addressed some of the issues with their controllers and released a new, slimmer controller with roughly the same layout to which their fans have grown accustomed. Sony, on the other hand, chickened out at the idea of a redesign when their first offering [http://obviousdiversion.com/images/ps3-boomerang.jpg] was met with scorn, and decided to stick with what's familiar.

So, I'm giving Microsoft the benefit of the doubt, if only because they tried something new (while completely ignoring the fact that they used Halo to sell the original, and are using Halo to sell the 360 >_>).
 

migo

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Yeah, they took some risks, but they weren't good ones. In choosing triggers they basically eliminated the viability of more than two shoulder controlls, and the bumpers are clearly tacked on. RB and LB were better handled by Black and White. Also, as far as analog stick position goes, while the Duke is much larger, the left analog stick is still positioned better, and the S controller the situation is the same, in both cases the stick ends up midway between the thumb joint and the tip, instead of right at the end with the 360 controller, which aside from being more comfortable also offers better control over the stick. D-Pad on the 360 controller is also just plain horrible, and the ABXY buttons on the Duke were also better.

What really happened is while they took some interesting risks with the Duke, they chickened out with the S (admittedly making it smaller for Japan was a good idea, and the Duke definitely was too big for some people, so a variation was needed) by returning the ABXY to the square diamond layout started by Nintendo with the SNES rather than keeping the stretched diamond that let you just roll your thumb to get all 4 buttons. They kept the analog stick placement, but otherwise exactly copied the DualShock. That's not taking a risk, that's being excessively conservative.

The N64 trident was taking a risk. The GameCube controller was at least creative, I realy appreciate the giant A button as so many games often only use a single button, the slightly smaller B button is also appreciated, although X and Y are a bit annoying. Still, with the GameCube you could just feel the different buttons based on the size, so that was an improvement. The analog sticks also had the octagon around them so you could actually hit all 8 directions accurately. The GC controller actually has some advantages over the DualShock on several levels, and the Duke even does too on a couple - the triggers are better for certain games and the stretched diamond is useful. The 360 controller just has nothing.
 

TheYellowCellPhone

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I don't own a 360, so I can't say I know the annoyance every day. When I played MW2 at a friend's house, it didn't seem that much of problem to me.

Having the option is good, however.
 

Lord Beautiful

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Let me get this straight. They made a 360 controller with a switchable left analog stick before fixing the D-Pad.

Wow.
 

migo

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-Zen- said:
Let me get this straight. They made a 360 controller with a switchable left analog stick before fixing the D-Pad.

Wow.
Putting the D-Pad up higher half fixes it, and there's no way of telling if the D-Pad on the Saitek is actually as horrible as the one on the 360.

Not to mention, there's a widely available 3rd party controller (I forget what it's called, but I've seen it at EB, HMV and FutureShop) with a cross D-Pad, wireless and no need for a dongle, so someone else already went and fixed the D-Pad.
 

Outcast107

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I..I just can't read any of Migo post. Its just a broken record over and over.

"I'm right your wrong. I'm the majority and your the minority. I'm smart and your dumb."

So I'm just going to get my handy dandy notebook and mark off migo as either a Troll..or a Sony fanboy who can't help it that xbox has a few good things and has to attack it nonstop.

(Also, isn't it weird for a guy who is a big fat fanboy for sony to be trying to play a xbox in the first place?)
 

migo

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Outcast107 said:
(Also, isn't it weird for a guy who is a big fat fanboy for sony to be trying to play a xbox in the first place?)
That should be your clue that I'm not a fanboy, along with other threads where I point out that the 360 has a better RPG selection than the PS3.

Some people just aren't that bright.
 

Outcast107

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migo said:
Outcast107 said:
(Also, isn't it weird for a guy who is a big fat fanboy for sony to be trying to play a xbox in the first place?)
That should be your clue that I'm not a fanboy, along with other threads where I point out that the 360 has a better RPG selection than the PS3.

Some people just aren't that bright.
Kind of hard to tell with all the post that you hate how Microsoft runs things. Or how PS3 is so much better then xbox in a lot of other stuff. As well as saying everyone is wrong when you say something who doesn't even share the same opinion as yours.
 
Sep 14, 2009
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Outcast107 said:
I..I just can't read any of Migo post. Its just a broken record over and over.

"I'm right your wrong. I'm the majority and your the minority. I'm smart and your dumb."

So I'm just going to get my handy dandy notebook and mark off migo as either a Troll..or a Sony fanboy who can't help it that xbox has a few good things and has to attack it nonstop.

(Also, isn't it weird for a guy who is a big fat fanboy for sony to be trying to play a xbox in the first place?)
just let it die, he wont take any criticism or look at anything thats different from his opinion, since none of it is subjective to him.
 

migo

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Outcast107 said:
migo said:
Outcast107 said:
(Also, isn't it weird for a guy who is a big fat fanboy for sony to be trying to play a xbox in the first place?)
That should be your clue that I'm not a fanboy, along with other threads where I point out that the 360 has a better RPG selection than the PS3.

Some people just aren't that bright.
Kind of hard to tell with all the post that you hate how Microsoft runs things. Or how PS3 is so much better then xbox in a lot of other stuff. As well as saying everyone is wrong when you say something who doesn't even share the same opinion as yours.
If you bother to actually read rather than just skimming it wouldn't be so hard to tell.
 

Outcast107

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gmaverick019 said:
Outcast107 said:
I..I just can't read any of Migo post. Its just a broken record over and over.

"I'm right your wrong. I'm the majority and your the minority. I'm smart and your dumb."

So I'm just going to get my handy dandy notebook and mark off migo as either a Troll..or a Sony fanboy who can't help it that xbox has a few good things and has to attack it nonstop.

(Also, isn't it weird for a guy who is a big fat fanboy for sony to be trying to play a xbox in the first place?)
just let it die, he wont take any criticism or look at anything thats different from his opinion, since none of it is subjective to him.
Lol Yeah you're right.
 

Silva

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Any replacement for Microsoft's consistently bad ergonomic decisions is probably a good thing for every gamer's hand health. I remember that the original Xbox controller (which fanboys truly hate hearing about because apparently it's fine now that there are smaller ones out to have even released something so unhealthy) was made for a giant's hands.

And ultimately, we've been pretty much in an ergonomic downwards slant with popular gaming controllers since Nintendo's Gamecube controller, which was truly an easy, comfortable fit for any pair of hands. Sony continuing to have virtually the same design as they did for their PS1 controllers is hardly helping things.

"But then, who cares if all the people who play these games too much develop RSI? We're making money!" /mockquote