Japanese Eroge Company Renames Rape Games to "Platinum Games"

[Samurai Goomba]

I also agree with you about geldonyetich.

I don't think I really operate on the same level as him, really. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, I'm just saying that the way he communicates is not the way I communicate. Consequently, I'm not even sure what you're agreeing with him about in the apparent evil badness of me.

I mean, come on, am I the only one that thinks being confronted with deliberately obscure side-comments [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/7.128903.2784985] is a really weird way of conducting any kind of reasoned debate? He was doing the same thing to me back here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/7.128903.2781487], and that's when I cut him off.

Maybe some people can operate that way, but I sure won't. You want to beat around the bush? Do it on your own time. That's all I'm saying.

And all I'm saying is that when you're confronted with a fallacious argument you may have put forth without realizing it, accept it gracefully and move on. Don't try to justify personal attacks with a "but he/she was doing/saying this." Debate the issues, not the people.

Claiming you can't respect someone as a person because of their stance on an issue? Stating that somebody's age is in any way related to their mental maturity and wisdom (a view which is, by the way, completely untrue, based on my experiences with some older folks I've met)? Real classy.

I don't see where Cheese was unclear. His reasoning often confuses me, but in this case I found his explanations pretty sensible. If you drive a flashy car and it gets stolen, well... You did drive a very flashy car, which may have provoked some thief, but if he steals it it's still HIS fault rather than yours. The same holds true for rape. Sexual desirability does not excuse real-life rape. I think that was his point. I'm sure if I've misinterpreted it he'll let me know. It's not such an obscure reference. The motivations behind and excuses given for rape are absolutely relevant to a discussion of the issue of rape in games.

As for the second link, conviction doesn't prove lack of moral "rightness". Or even legality. He wasn't even convicted of the correct thing (as it pertains to this topic, which is about rape in virtual media). Just because he was CONVICTED doesn't mean your point is correct-it just means he was convicted. He wasn't in the "wrong" in the sense we're talking about unless he was convicted on the basis of it being illegal to own fake depictions of rape. Which it is not. They couldn't get him for that, so they got him for something else BECAUSE they couldn't get him on that.

It's like if you try to arrest somebody for owning pot, but the country you're in has legalized pot. So you can't get him on that. But he was walking down the street late at night and kicked over a garbage can. So you get him for "disturbing the peace." See? You get him, but you don't get him on the right thing.

And Cheese is right on the money about the difference between the way a Law is intended to be used and the way it is used today in society. A lot of stupid/racist laws today are ignored or have been amended, simply because the will of the people has changed.

 

[Low Key]

yada yada yada

I'm not about to sit here and argue with you when it's obvious we aren't going to agree or compromise. Though I never did some sick shit like rape, I am a former criminal, and I was trying to belate my point as such. Since I can't imagine many people on this site doing the same shit I did growing up, I guess it is foolish of me to expect my point to get through to you or anyone else. Have a good night.

 

[Booze Zombie]

I love this thread, i has make me realize how some of those that speak for virtual violence will not stand up for other illegal virtual acts and i also start to understand where virtual violnece opossers come from.

for those who oposse rape simulator,
1. Would you oposse and adult couple roleplaying as rapist-victim in their privacy?

if you're ok with it
2. Would you be ok if the game had an intro in wich the characters say that they are acting/roleplaying the raping?

That's a good point, would most of these on here oppose "rape simulation" games if the characters got up in front of the camera and just said "we're just having fantasy fun, don't take this seriously, kaiwaa".

 

[Whistler777]

*Sigh*

Japanese culture is the main reason why I wish never to vacation there.

Even though such a game is disgusting, I hold firm to my belief that censorship only weakens mankind.

 

[akIceman]

I'm sorry, you lost me at 'I own rape porn.'

Why? Rape fantasy is one of the most common fantasies among both sexes.

Because if one owns plenty of rape porn and has that as a personal fetish, they can hardly be objective about this event. I mean, if we're going to be judging people based on their reactions to this event...

Yet someone with a personal vendetta can be objective? No. The only really person qualified to judge this would be an asexual sociopath. Don't think for a second we don't all have some bias in this. We just have to do our best to think and argue logically.

"Asexual sociopath"? You mean Jack Thompson? Or Ann Coulter? (FYI I am conservative...just not THAT conservative)

 

[Allan Foe]

Then, of course, there's also the scenario where some poor sap mistakes the Platinum category for something not unlike a "Greatest Hits," and has his mind irrevocably scarred.

If you're visiting a Specialized Porn Game Shop (presented in a foreign language no less) and you can't identify rape porn then you're pretty much screwed and serves you right too, you horny moron.

Please note that the target audience (Japanese) are not ignorant of the proliferation of rape in their porn, it's pretty normal (if not expected) for a pornographic (hentai) visual novel to contain at least one rape scenario.

 

[The_Healer]

wow..... Japanese people are MESSED UP!

Seriously, who plays these games?

 

[cobra_ky]

In my state, oral and anal are both illegal (long ago laws I assume made to make it illegal to be gay or something)

And all the porn here can't show penetration...but the state border is just a few hours away..

is this a US state? all the sodomy laws in the US were struck down 6 years ago.

 

[Blackadder51]

Oh god....
Why is this even going on?

 

[Archemetis]

Are the Japanese developers really that desperate for simulated rape to leave their country?

I mean why can't they fight this hard to get titles like the Monster hunter series or Blazblue in to Europe?

instead people would rather fight to get their sick, twisted "Everyone likes to feel up little girls on subways trains" "genre" of games out into the world.

By using misleading catagory titles...

Damnit, Japan! Cut it out already, it's creepy!

 

[ProfessorLayton]

I agree with Penn about these rape games. People get all upset about games involving rape, but then you defend violent games from Fox News. Yes, murder and rape are both horrible crimes that should never be committed, but if murder simulators aren't bad, then how are rape simulators? Sorry, I had to get that out there for everyone saying these are sick and terrible (which they are) yet you can go chainsawing through people without a care. They're just games, remember?

This is interesting... I never really believed that changing the name of something makes something tamer. They're the same kinds of games as they always were. This is a silly battle that could have been avoided.

 

[Vidiot]

sorry if i missed something, but i didn't have time to go through all 11 pages of the thread. I don't remember who said this, but i was in a different thread talking about "rape games" before the talk of the ban, and one of my favorite arguments was this:

"In America, rapists go out and rape people. In Japan, they play video games."

it was a valid point, and you can disagree all you want, as loudly as you want, but when I have a crappy day at work and I wish I could do unspeakable bodily harm to my co-workers, I come home I put in fallout 3 and blow some limbs off.

What if a rapist came home and played these games for an hour, jerked off and went to sleep. this seems preferable to him getting back into his car and driving to the obligatory hot co-workers house and parking across the street with some chloroform and a pair of binoculars with a hundred feet of rope in the trunk.

EDIT: sorry about grammar, it's early.

 

[ablac]

im sorta unsurprised this happened in japan this stuff is more accepted over there i remember reading somewhere that there was a comic book called rape man and that its quite popular people just ndont seem to mind

 

[Nomad]

I'd say you should leave because the adults are talking

You're trying to prove you're right by showing off accomplishments rather than showing off arguments. What you've accomplished in the past, or what character traits you have, are completely irrelevant to the current discussion. If you're right, then you'll be able to prove it with constructive arguments. If you can't, then you're obviously wrong. Simple logic. What's correct will naturally have stronger and more numerous arguments supporting it.

we should kick in the doors of the companies making these games pull their designers out into the street and RAPE THEM!! or just keep sitting at the computer hanging out at the escapist because I don't wanna get arrested, wouldn't get any pleasure out of raping someone, and live in America and so couldn't do that even if the first two weren't problems. They do sorta deserve to have that happen though.

So yeah, anyway,escapist ftw

In what way do they deserve to get physically tormented for setting up a fictional scenario where the only victims are pixels in a monitor?

Wow. Just wow.

As much as I hate rape and view it as depraved, perverted, and morally corrupt and I think that rapists deserve the death penalty and the mere thought of it makes me wretch at the depratity of humantiy.

I feel that rape is worse than murder. Why? because once you kill someone, they are dead. [...] The mental damage from rape causes suicides.

... So rape is worse than murder because rape sometimes causes people to commit suicide... Which kills them? How is something that kills people 30% of the time worse than something that kills people 100% of the time? And hey, if life after getting raped is worse than death... Then they're free to commit suicide. Yet most victims don't. I wonder if that has something to do with the fact that most people consider a sucky life better than no life at all? And when they do choose to commit suicide, the end result is still only the same as getting murdered. So in a worst-case rape-scenario, the end result equals the end result of a murder. Ergo - murder is as bad as, or worse, than rape. Not better.

 

[salbarragan]

That last line
"Though come to think of it, knowing Japan, it might actually be their Greatest Hits category. Nevermind."
is going to haunt me for awhile.

 

[geldonyetich]

Claiming you can't respect someone as a person because of their stance on an issue? Stating that somebody's age is in any way related to their mental maturity and wisdom (a view which is, by the way, completely untrue, based on my experiences with some older folks I've met)? Real classy.

I agree.

You see, it's not that I don't respect them, I just can't very well be involved in a conversation with somebody who, after repeated attempts, just can't/won't understand me. This isn't to invalidate them as individuals, it's simply a very frustrating experience for me.

Further, while I'm all very much in support of the idea that a person's age is not reflective of their wisdom, it's nonetheless the case that some people's wisdom will be. This is probably the lightest possible fault you can be accused of, as it assumes you'll outgrow it eventually. If I really wanted to damn them, I would have been claiming their wisdom was significantly less than their age.

As for the rest of your post, slightly off in terms of what I was actually trying to say. It's sort of futile for me to address things I never implied. However, I don't blame you - Internet forums are lousy that way. Barely anyone seems to know what anybody else is saying, and that's what I meant by I was arguing a completely different level. We just couldn't click, me and that purveyor of cheese.

I'd say you should leave because the adults are talking

You're trying to prove you're right by showing off accomplishments rather than showing off arguments.

And you're trying to prove you're right by taking me completely out of context.

Anywho, this isn't about me. While it's all very good to accuse me of losing a debate by resorting to ad hominem, simply piling more ad hominem on top of it isn't going to prove anything other than you're as bad or worse than me.

I think a large reason why I don't show a lot of patience during Internet forum debates is that they all turn out this way, at least ones that are seen through to sufficient depth. Somebody (probably both parties) gets stubborn or can't understand what you're getting at and then the only thing to do is to tell them so. Once you've seen that a ludicrous number of times, you start wanting to cut things to the quick.

All things considered, I could have shown a whole lot more tact... statements like "I'd say you should leave because the adults are talking" are certainly likely to generate the wrong impression. Once in awhile, I go on a really bad forum bender, and yesterday was certainly one of those days.

However, the real bottom line - at least if we're talking reasonable discourse of debate as being the real bottom line here - is that people shouldn't get bent out of shape when I honestly express that I find their arguments are a hodgepodge of gross misinterpretation or deliberate evasion, and they're either going to have to try harder or I'm taking my ball and going home. Why? Because sometimes it genuinely needs to be said. Perhaps more often than it is.

 

[esperandote]

This is interesting... I never really believed that changing the name of something makes something tamer. They're the same kinds of games as they always were. This is a silly battle that could have been avoided.

I guess that changin the name of a violent game to "Murder simulator" would also get it banned even if it didn't get banned using its regular name.

 

[ender214]

I don't see what the massive outrage is all about. You think these things are rare? Go on Google, turn off filtering, search rape porn. You'll come up with 2.5 million results. Somewhere, among those results, there are going to be games. This stuff isn't isolated into Japan, people, it's everywhere. You can't beat such a massive system.

 

[Jeronus]

Are the Japanese developers really that desperate for simulated rape to leave their country?

I mean why can't they fight this hard to get titles like the Monster hunter series or Blazblue in to Europe?

instead people would rather fight to get their sick, twisted "Everyone likes to feel up little girls on subways trains" "genre" of games out into the world.

By using misleading catagory titles...

Damnit, Japan! Cut it out already, it's creepy!

I don't think Japan wants to spread the genre because they blocked the website from foreigners. I doubt it would pass the test contentwise. I am afraid the only way someone can get their hands on this game is to go to Japan and smuggle the game back. It's a shame too. I am sincerely curious about this game.

 

[Chris^^]

The more people complain the more publicity it affords for the perpetrators. This massive scandal only alerts more people to the existence of said games.

Though I personally find the games appalling I still accept that they exist because there is a market for them, and if they keep real rapists off the streets so much the better.