Japanophiles and the Internet
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I agree with the animation thingj-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
I mean sure, we have pixar and such making good stuff
but when it comes to TV...I was watching TV and on the channel I think the refered to it "Animation Nation" or whatever the line-up was
American dad
Familiy Guy
The clevland show
Futurama
now with the exception of futureama (which Im not exactally a fan of but I think its decent) its THATS what we associate with "animation" then I cry..I really do
I mean come on Batman: the animated seried and AVATAR:the last airbender...why cant we have more stuff like that? (I mean there is ben 10 which seems pretty good..but its still a kids show
Internet is inhabited by nerds/geeks/etc (not completely, natch, but a good portion)
Japan makes things nerds/geeks love (video games, anime, sexy women)
Not a difficult equation to crack.
Japan makes things nerds/geeks love (video games, anime, sexy women)
Not a difficult equation to crack.
Bizzare, amazing, oh my god did they just go there... Japanese culture seems to have it all and it is addicting. I'm not even that big an anime fan but when I'm in the mood for it I can waste hours delving into it.Yureina said:Probably because Japanese culture can be relatively interesting. Sure, there is alot of bizzare stuff there too, but you can say the same for the USA as well with all those crazy TV shows and movies that many people are too embarrassed to admit that they watch.
In short... who cares if people like Japanese culture? (Some) Anime is pretty good after all!
The internet? The internet's opinion on things changes so radically and rapidly that I'm not even going to attempt to gauge what the majority of its residents think of Japan.
What seems prolific is the sort of "bad" Japanophile, commonly referred to as "weeaboo" or "Wapanese". Reita-Chan is a good (satirical?) example:
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These people follow three or four anime obsessively, speak as much Japanese as a year-old native toddler, and mistake very local characteristics for Japanese elements. Either that, or they prefer to address local elements as if they were Japanese elements.
Then, of course, you have the more serious Japanophiles who might be interested in the Shogun series of novels, books by Jake Adelstein or other sociopolitical observations on Japan. These people are interested in the country as it truly is, with all of its idiosyncrasies and less-than-glorious aspects.
Unfortunately, there's quite a bit of overlap between the two. Some Wapanese blossom into serious Japanophiles, others don't. The Internet, being what it is, simply caters to both. Outsiders focus on the weeaboo aspects because they're what're more readily identifiable.
I consider myself as a casual observer, for instance. I'd never set foot in Japan to save my life - as the cultural difference freaks me the Hell out - but as I enjoy reading about other cultures, this works just as well. I'm far from being an otaku, though, as a lot of what I've been shown in terms of Anime simply didn't do it for me. I don't understand teen fanservice as a market to begin with, and I tend to limit myself to the more "cerebral" productions in the genre, like Ghost in the Shell, Paprika, Perfect Blue and such.
<youtube=nL60hgTVPa0&feature=plcp&context=C3f3c889UDOEgsToPDskIDJPzsh6OjgyLjiX3vURkb>
These people follow three or four anime obsessively, speak as much Japanese as a year-old native toddler, and mistake very local characteristics for Japanese elements. Either that, or they prefer to address local elements as if they were Japanese elements.
Then, of course, you have the more serious Japanophiles who might be interested in the Shogun series of novels, books by Jake Adelstein or other sociopolitical observations on Japan. These people are interested in the country as it truly is, with all of its idiosyncrasies and less-than-glorious aspects.
Unfortunately, there's quite a bit of overlap between the two. Some Wapanese blossom into serious Japanophiles, others don't. The Internet, being what it is, simply caters to both. Outsiders focus on the weeaboo aspects because they're what're more readily identifiable.
I consider myself as a casual observer, for instance. I'd never set foot in Japan to save my life - as the cultural difference freaks me the Hell out - but as I enjoy reading about other cultures, this works just as well. I'm far from being an otaku, though, as a lot of what I've been shown in terms of Anime simply didn't do it for me. I don't understand teen fanservice as a market to begin with, and I tend to limit myself to the more "cerebral" productions in the genre, like Ghost in the Shell, Paprika, Perfect Blue and such.
Well,there's Anime, the fact that Gaming as we know it (excluding LOLOLOL COD BATTLEFIELD OF HONOR.) is largely due to Japanese companies like Nintendo, Sony, Sega and SquareEnix, and the fact that it's more interesting to some people than say, where they live, or talking about India. Plus those Umbrella-book-Egg-used panty vending machines sure are interesting.
The funniest thing about it is that Japan doesn't want Japan-Lovers to exist either, except if they are Japanese.
At least that's how I understood it!
Quite honestly, it makes sense. There are people that learn Japanese because of all the animes that they love, which is absolutely fine and even something that I admire...
... What I don't admire is that they undermine the language by pronouncing every word like an anime character.
That might sound stupid at first because "anime characters do talk normally most of the time, right?" ...
... I wish I could just show you what I mean, but I can't. Its extremely weird, just trust me on that one.
And even THATS fine in theory. What's not fine is that these same people manage to get to Japan by means of exchange students or anything like that and actually talk like that when they are in Japan.
I remember we had a Japanese store in Duesseldorf back then and my friend tried talking German to them. She is really nice and all, but the Japanese store clerk did not... like the way she was speaking Japanese I suppose. She just replied in German and looked pretty pissed off.
I know this is not really on topic, but just thought I should mention that most likely all of Japan wants them to get off the internet.
I wonder how any other country would react to something like that.
At least that's how I understood it!
Quite honestly, it makes sense. There are people that learn Japanese because of all the animes that they love, which is absolutely fine and even something that I admire...
... What I don't admire is that they undermine the language by pronouncing every word like an anime character.
That might sound stupid at first because "anime characters do talk normally most of the time, right?" ...
... I wish I could just show you what I mean, but I can't. Its extremely weird, just trust me on that one.
And even THATS fine in theory. What's not fine is that these same people manage to get to Japan by means of exchange students or anything like that and actually talk like that when they are in Japan.
I remember we had a Japanese store in Duesseldorf back then and my friend tried talking German to them. She is really nice and all, but the Japanese store clerk did not... like the way she was speaking Japanese I suppose. She just replied in German and looked pretty pissed off.
I know this is not really on topic, but just thought I should mention that most likely all of Japan wants them to get off the internet.
I wonder how any other country would react to something like that.
For fuck's sake. Shows like South Park and Family Guy are almost scientific. They expose the problems with things that are accepted.
Anime likes to be philosophical. Adult cartoons like to be practical, satirical. Anime is individually relevant, adult cartoons are socially so.
They come with cheap gags because without the comedy and childish setting they'd never get aired. The contrast between the seriousness of some of the issues they deal with and the downright moronic storylines they go for is a highlighting factor. If you don't see it then pull your head out of your arse.
As a Brit I would love a cartoon like either of those mentioned. We do have plenty of comedic panel shows that manage a pretty good job though, so we are ok.
Anime likes to be philosophical. Adult cartoons like to be practical, satirical. Anime is individually relevant, adult cartoons are socially so.
They come with cheap gags because without the comedy and childish setting they'd never get aired. The contrast between the seriousness of some of the issues they deal with and the downright moronic storylines they go for is a highlighting factor. If you don't see it then pull your head out of your arse.
As a Brit I would love a cartoon like either of those mentioned. We do have plenty of comedic panel shows that manage a pretty good job though, so we are ok.
Also, Heres a Question, I'm not really a Japanophile, but I am like 1/3 Japanese, and living with my entirely Japanese Grandmother, would I still be elligible for the term?
Play fair.Soviet Heavy said:
A huge chunk of the young adult population grew up with Nintendo. Kids a year or two younger grew up with Nintendo and Sega. A few years younger, they grew up with Nintendo, Sega, and Sony. It wasn't until the previous generation of consoles, in the 2000's, that America had its foot in the door, unless you want to count the PC master race, but again, play fair: PC's have never been as accessible as consoles (especially in terms of their cost), and that's just now beginning to change.
The popularity of Japan's subcultures certainly owes in large part to the fact that the first two decades of the modern video game era were thoroughly dominated by Japanese characters made by Japanese companies for primarily Japanese audiences. Anime has always had something of a cult following, but up until the late nineties, it was nothing like the massive fan following it has today -- and that fan following grew roughly with the acceptance of video games within less and less insular geek cultures.
The thing is, Japanophilia is just another type of fanboyism. Teenage girls might plaster their walls with the boy band of the month, and turn into a drooling, screaming fanatic in the presence of the latest heartthrob. Fanatical sports fans will adhere to their local team, spending billions annually on commercial tchotchkes. Japanophilia isn't weird -- it's plain old fanboyism, just flavored with pocky and lolicon.
Part of me wonders if what you think is a Japanophile is really just someone who likes a few anime series. I like anime, I like some Japanese music. I enjoy learning about their religion and their cultural norms and their interesting history.
But I also really love what the French are doing with contemporary animation, and what Norwegians do with metal, and what the British bring to electronic music. I also love reading about the almost ten thousand year history of India. Probably the most interesting country historically, IMO.
I like things that interest me, no matter where they come from, even if it's Japan. I think you see more anime because it's semi-mainstream and, most importantly, it's a huge industry. To ignore it is like ignoring Hollywood. So much stuff comes out of it, and some of that stuff is good.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to discuss the Secret of Kells (a wonderful animated film from Belgium) but no one else seems to have seen it.
But I also really love what the French are doing with contemporary animation, and what Norwegians do with metal, and what the British bring to electronic music. I also love reading about the almost ten thousand year history of India. Probably the most interesting country historically, IMO.
I like things that interest me, no matter where they come from, even if it's Japan. I think you see more anime because it's semi-mainstream and, most importantly, it's a huge industry. To ignore it is like ignoring Hollywood. So much stuff comes out of it, and some of that stuff is good.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to discuss the Secret of Kells (a wonderful animated film from Belgium) but no one else seems to have seen it.
You'd have to have a fixation or obsession with the culture. If you actively seek out the knowledge by your own volition, then yes, I think it can apply.Safe in the Dark said:
This a thousand times over, on a different note.. if you really do like anime, games/visual novels etc keep to a medium. Please don't go on to forums like this and say " Naruto is cool xD, She Is Waifu..Etc.VladG said:
Anime plays a large role in most japanophiles lives online, but I was aiming for those that go beyond the anime and delve into the culture. And Secret of Kells is awesome.AC10 said:
Hmm .. well .. I lived & worked in Japan for 7 yrs. Not really going to go into too much detail about why ... my formative years were in the shadow of Japan's economic success; and remember that many people in the 80s expected us all to be speaking the language of our Japanese corporate overlords by 2000.
Kids *now* wouldn't necessarily understand that people of my generation (over 30s) mostly expected Japan to rule the world by now. Economically, technologically, and culturally, they seemed unstoppable. Japan was to the 80s what China will be to the next decade - the 'Next Big Thing', the next Superpower that we all hear so much about. How many of us are being told on a daily basis that 'China is the future!', or 'Learn Chinese for a secure business future!', or 'The West is doooooomed!' etc. The same shit was happening in the 80s, just change the names.
Japan has featured very prominently in the public consciousness since it was 'opened' during the Meiji Restoration. It's the exotic, far-away place. The country was locked down for 400 yrs accepting almost no 'cultural interference' from other countries from the end of Sengoku Jidai through to Meiji.
Even travelling *within* Japan was something you didn't do without express permission - leading to the development of diverse regional dialects like Osaka-ben, where words are mostly the same but conjugations vary. This likewise ensured a wide variety of very different local 'ways' of doing things, be it cooking a particular dish, a particular dance, or a way of pickling radishes.
It strikes us as whacky, or bizarre, or even unsettling at times, but this unique approach is what I think makes Japanese culture popular.
Now, as to why Japanophiles seem more popular on line ... I dunno. I never noticed. I think it's simply that there is a lot of people on the Internet, so you could try searching for damned near anything and find a web site devoted to it. So it's not actually that there are huge numbers of Japanophiles ... it's just that the only place they can connect and not be regarded as an outcast geek is here.
Where else do you expect them to connect with likeminded people? Short wave radio? Morse code?
Kids *now* wouldn't necessarily understand that people of my generation (over 30s) mostly expected Japan to rule the world by now. Economically, technologically, and culturally, they seemed unstoppable. Japan was to the 80s what China will be to the next decade - the 'Next Big Thing', the next Superpower that we all hear so much about. How many of us are being told on a daily basis that 'China is the future!', or 'Learn Chinese for a secure business future!', or 'The West is doooooomed!' etc. The same shit was happening in the 80s, just change the names.
Japan has featured very prominently in the public consciousness since it was 'opened' during the Meiji Restoration. It's the exotic, far-away place. The country was locked down for 400 yrs accepting almost no 'cultural interference' from other countries from the end of Sengoku Jidai through to Meiji.
Even travelling *within* Japan was something you didn't do without express permission - leading to the development of diverse regional dialects like Osaka-ben, where words are mostly the same but conjugations vary. This likewise ensured a wide variety of very different local 'ways' of doing things, be it cooking a particular dish, a particular dance, or a way of pickling radishes.
It strikes us as whacky, or bizarre, or even unsettling at times, but this unique approach is what I think makes Japanese culture popular.
Now, as to why Japanophiles seem more popular on line ... I dunno. I never noticed. I think it's simply that there is a lot of people on the Internet, so you could try searching for damned near anything and find a web site devoted to it. So it's not actually that there are huge numbers of Japanophiles ... it's just that the only place they can connect and not be regarded as an outcast geek is here.
Where else do you expect them to connect with likeminded people? Short wave radio? Morse code?
It may be due to several reasons:Soviet Heavy said:
-More people like Japan/Japanese culture then other countries
-Japan is tied to one or more of their interests be it anime or gaming
-Fans of Japan are more technically proficient and thus show a greater presence online then fans of other countries
-Japan has more interesting facets come from Japan and thus result in more memes
I'm thinking its a mix of these.
Another reason could be that the gamer demographic is just around the perfect age to have grown up having developed an appreciation of the aesthetic of animation in general but anime in particular, especially when juxtaposed against the alternative of native low-budget live action Fantasy & Science Fiction schlock that was available at the time.Soviet Heavy said:
Japanophiles only start pissing me off when they start using Japanese words in English sentences.
It's bloody annoying.
It's bloody annoying.
I became a "Japanophile" after I massively started to read up on the culture, language, places, history, their ways and structure blah blah blah, due to me having to go out there and work.
I did start off with the anime, but never really got the whole "lets all hang round the street reading manga mixing in J-terms with english and thinking in some sort of weird drangon ninja guy and I wear a bandana because I saw some muscled topless anime guy in a show once". I keep my anime things on a lowdown unless someone asks me otherwise.
But in terms of the OP's question, I guess its more dominant due to the fact that the culture is so weird and yet so wideley available in the rest of the world. Its exactly the same over there, they seem to have a huge fixation on Britain and/or British people for example, I have no idea how many times I saw someone wearing a huge union jack or suddenly became interested in me when I mentioned I was English.
Its give and take really
I did start off with the anime, but never really got the whole "lets all hang round the street reading manga mixing in J-terms with english and thinking in some sort of weird drangon ninja guy and I wear a bandana because I saw some muscled topless anime guy in a show once". I keep my anime things on a lowdown unless someone asks me otherwise.
But in terms of the OP's question, I guess its more dominant due to the fact that the culture is so weird and yet so wideley available in the rest of the world. Its exactly the same over there, they seem to have a huge fixation on Britain and/or British people for example, I have no idea how many times I saw someone wearing a huge union jack or suddenly became interested in me when I mentioned I was English.
Its give and take really