Jennifer Hepler leaves Bioware due to threats by fans

[gezodiac]

DA2 wasn't THAT bad......

 

[ArmorArmadillo]

On the one hand nothing can excuse this type of abuse, some people have some serious issues, sure you can rack it up to group think, a culture of one-ups-manship, and "its ok its just a joke" but at the end of the day people should take a step back and take note on how sick they're really being. Hell maybe even seek some professional help since nothing good can come from a mentality where this is "ok".

On the other hand this completely detracts from the valid complaints some have with her writing style and mentality on how gameplay should be, the extremists have shot themselves in the foot by invalidating any civil discourse we may have had in discussing this and also hurt the gaming community as a whole...

And on the third hand how can we as a gaming community take active steps in stopping such actions such as threats and verbal/written attacks? One thing that comes to mind is how we should act towards school shootings (I know this is no where near as heinous but the mechanics are similar IMO):
-Do not bring notoriety to the individuals making threats and the websites that house those individuals, bad PR is still PR and the less a website is known for those "outrageous" threats and more for being a boring place where little is said the better.
-The term trolls and anonymous have a certain perverted mystique, instead of labeling them as such more boring terms such as "a person who made a threat" or "a person who posted an unwanted insult" would diminish the actions and not promote follow up copy-cats.
-While legal action should be taken, the idea that the individual was so aggressive that the police had to be called again gives the actions intrigue, maybe it would be better that contact of the police should be a foregone conclusion and never mentioned? Not quite sure on this myself.
-And lastly the greatest action we should all take is to step back and check on our own selves and how we write our posts. I know even I've going emotionally involved in a post and while in small doses this is completely ok we should keep in check those few posts that may cross the boundary of good taste, so what I'm trying to say is don't be one of those people either.

Also anime.

I disagree. Strongly. These people rely on our silence about this. They rely on us to "not give them attention" so they are free to attack people directly. And then people quietly pat themselves on the back because "well, you know, I don't agree with trolls, but I'm really glad she's gone".

There needs to be stinks. People need to be shunned. People who echo the sentiment of trolls are trolls themselves. Gaming as a community needs to learn some shame and humility. This isn't going to end until every gamer feels as offended as the one receiving threats.

 

[ArmorArmadillo]

Good lord, are there still people quoting me in their blind, furious rage at me daring to question the methods of a former Bioware employee?

The Bioware fanboys need to calm down. I didn't say a damn thing about her talents.

Nor did I even once imply that it was "okay" to threaten her with death. I did not and would not.

What I said was that if she doesn't like any of the interactive elements of video games, and wants them to be skip-able so that she can ONLY listen to the dialogue, then perhaps she should consider writing in a medium that doesn't include those elements, such as movies or books. Because a video game's uniqueness comes from the interactivity it provides, and it's simply stupid to try and strip that element out of video games.

So, she may be a brilliant writer, but she's got the wrong attitude for a video game developer.

If you disagree, fine, I don't really care. But I prefer my video games to be made by people with some sort of personal investment in video games, rather than a person who does it to make money.

A person was forced out of their profession by death threats. This is the second time this has happened recently.

You see the bigger issue at hand is "I don't think people I don't consider gamers should be in the industry."

Think about that.

 

[oZode]

Anyone capable of having a xbox + internet connection probably has a good standard of living or hasn't moved out yet. It is incredibly unlikely anyone who sent the threat anonymously would actually carry out the threat of killing the children of a game developer in a horrible way, as they have too much to loose. Personal stuff they have like family, life, hopes and dreams would outweigh the desire to make someone else miserable over a crappy video game. Not to mention it would make them a criminal, give the government more reasons to regulate the internet, and bring shame on their family name.


Has any game developer actually been assassinated over a crappy game ever?

 

[ArmorArmadillo]

A person was forced out of their profession by death threats. This is the second time this has happened recently.

You see the bigger issue at hand is "I don't think people I don't consider gamers should be in the industry."

Think about that.

No, she wasn't.

She was directly quoted as saying that she left for personal reasons and that the death threats had NOTHING to do with her leaving.

Stop buying into the sensationalist garbage.

It doesn't mean she didn't. She might have just said that because she didn't want scumbags to think they'd won. The fact that she was dealing with stuff like this at all is still a big issue, and the fact that she's not the only one is worse.

From my position, we should assume the worst about gamers as a community until we start cleaning up our dirty elements. And especially about people who feel no shame about such things, tolerate trolls more than their victims, and use this as yet another opportunity to say that "people who don't meet my standard of 'gamer' have no place in the industry in any capacity'. Whether you think you're the problem or not, attitudes like this help the worst elements fester.

 

[ArmorArmadillo]

It doesn't mean she didn't. She might have just said that because she didn't want scumbags to think they'd won. The fact that she was dealing with stuff like this at all is still a big issue, and the fact that she's not the only one is worse.

So in other words, even though we have a direct quote from her saying that it didn't influence her departure, we should completely ignore her word on the subject and assume that it totally influenced her departure.

Basically you just want to use this instance as a chance to do a soap box rant. Just say that, and perhaps I'll respect your position a little more.

And you're not? She didn't mention whether she belonged in the industry and you keep bringing that idiotic gamer-entitlement rant up.

 

[Caiphus]

A recent article was put up on Polygon about the whole issue of bullying those who work in gaming:

http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/15/4622252/plague-of-game-dev-harassment-erodes-industry-spurs-support-groups

It was actually mentioned on the first page of the thread. Good read though.

It includes an interview with Hepler, who downplayed the effect of the death threats:

No, leaving Bioware was for family reasons. I am going to be working on a text book on narrative design among other game-related freelance projects."

And I don't think she's being dishonest, it sounds like the effect of the threats on her were disheartening, but not enough to make her quit.

The interview with Stephen Toulouse is actually much more interesting, and I would strongly agree with this part:

"The root cause of the problem isn't in what we do, making games, it's that there are so little consequences to this wildly violent approach of communication that we are simply one audience of many that are subject to this type of focus," he said. "There's no real penalty right now."

...

"You have to approach it from a very dispassionate point of view, and that's a really hard thing to do," he said. "Not everyone can do that. That's a tall thing to ask people to do. It's like, 'Yeah, I know they just said they're going to rape your wife, but you've got to let that bounce off you.' That's tough to ask people to do."

And it sounds like he was actually discouraged from staying in his job because of the internet hate:

One of the reasons Toulouse left, he said, was because Microsoft didn't know how to deal with that from a corporate standpoint .

"Microsoft didn't know what to do," he said. "I would bring it up. I would say, 'Hey, I am putting my family at material risk, by you wanting me to be this public sheriff.'"

Toulouse said he asked for security because people would tell him they were going to kill him at events like PAX.

"They were like, 'We don't do that,'" he said.

On topic though: Hepler always struck me as the wrong person at wrong place at the wrong time. She was an unattractive female game developer, working for a EA/Ware, who publicly played a part in DA2, and who said things that were likely to get blown out of context. I don't like certain popular parts of gameplay either, like insane difficulty, zombies and multiplayer. So if she didn't like other parts of gameplay, then what the hell? Why should that matter? It shouldn't have been taken as far as it was, but like I said: Wrong person, wrong place, wrong time.

 

[ThriKreen]

I thought Helper was a huge part of the reason why Bioware has been in such decline recently, but Christ this is disgusting.

One writer, not even a lead. Yes, a huge part even on games she's not assigned to work on, on teams with a creative or design director who probably has way more say in dictating the way the game flows, as opposed to dialogue for a part of the game.

Her contributions are on par with everyone else on the project of 50-100 people. People are focusing on her as a scapegoat because she's been easily identified compared to the rest. Most likely due to the interviews where she expressed her preference of game styles, which in no way was there any claim she got them integrated into said games.

 

[WouldYouKindly]

Don't you love fuckheads who expect everything someone writes to be solid gold? Even the most respected writers can write some truly awful books/movies/lyrics.

Also, who's to know what specifically she wrote, could have been Varric's dialogue. She might have had fuckall to do with the story, which wasn't THAT bad. DA2 was let down by repetition in environments and a much smaller scale everything, not story so much. It wasn't as good as DA:O, but it wasn't bad and you kind of have to scale down a bit from the whole save the world thing. Even mediocre Bioware writing is better than most. I do think focusing on a full scale war with the Qunari would have been more interesting though, but that's just me.

 

[ThriKreen]

What I said was that if she doesn't like any of the interactive elements of video games, and wants them to be skip-able so that she can ONLY listen to the dialogue, then perhaps she should consider writing in a medium that doesn't include those elements, such as movies or books. Because a video game's uniqueness comes from the interactivity it provides, and it's simply stupid to try and strip that element out of video games.

I think you've misread her interview, she was referring to wanting the action parts of the game to be skippable, and letting her jump to the (hopefully interactive) dialogue parts. In essence, making it more like a Japanese visual novel style of game.

 

[LetalisK]

What I said was that if she doesn't like any of the interactive elements of video games, and wants them to be skip-able so that she can ONLY listen to the dialogue, then perhaps she should consider writing in a medium that doesn't include those elements, such as movies or books. Because a video game's uniqueness comes from the interactivity it provides, and it's simply stupid to try and strip that element out of video games.

I think you've misread her interview, she was referring to wanting the action parts of the game to be skippable, and letting her jump to the (hopefully interactive) dialogue parts. In essence, making it more like a Japanese visual novel style of game.

Or Heavy Rain. Or LA Noire. Or any other game that doesn't emphasize combat. What she expressed she would enjoy is not so far removed from stuff we already have, particularly in the indie genre. And it's not like she advocated the removal of combat, so I never understood how what she said could be used against her.

 

[Aramis Night]

When did censorship suddenly become cool? Thousands of people have died for freedom from it and other forms of government control and now everyone is just spitting on their graves.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying i approve of death threats to this woman or her kids. However i would prefer to know who the crazies and psycho's online are so i don't have to worry about associating with them. If people's ability to express themselves is so limited, how will you ever really know where people stand? The trolls wont just disappear. They will still be there, just now you wont know who they are till your already in the same corner with them.

On another note: who would we trust to be the internet thought police? I for one don't have any use for the current TSA. I definitely don't want to see the BS that will come with an internet equivalent. The young LoL player was just a sampling of what is to come if we collectively decide to hand over our free speech rights, and it will only get worse.

Wonder if you would be defending death threats as free speech if it was you or your family being targeted.

Keep in mind the main difference that she is "Famous" and therefore her personal information (such as where she lives) is often put on public display.

Nobody "fought and died" for your right to harass random people online. If you want to argue that it's a right you should have, great but don't pretend that it's something people have been fighting for. You really don't understand how "Free speech" works if you think it has anything to do with death threats.

Who grants you your right anyways? Your rights seem very important to you, where do they come from? Are they physical things or just lines on paper?

When does a right expire? When is a right created? How do we know the rights written up by a bunch of wealthy slave owners are morally justified and not outdated?


EDIT: BTW why did you ask when it became "cool?" That is just a really weird thing to say. Do you really base your reality on what is considered "cool" and if so, who is saying censorship is "cool?"

Perhaps you live in a land full of hypocrites where no one has ever lived up to any morality or principle and if so i pity you. But i can assure you that there are still people out there in the world who are perfectly willing to back up their position with more than just empty words. I aspire to be one myself. As such death threats against my family are not something i overly concern myself with despite the reality of such incidents. I've had many made toward myself as well. I have also had people threaten to end my life at gunpoint who had never made a prior threat. Guess which threats i take seriously and which i don't.

Speech is just words. I would much rather see people vent their displeasure with words, than with actions. Murderers get away with murder often because they don't talk about it. Assassins don't discuss their targets publically. People that make death threats are just frustrated idiots. How often have these online death threats ever lead to a poster of such threats actually killing their target?

And yes, people have died for the right to publicly criticize public entities of all kinds, even hyperbolically. It isn't as though death threats are some new form of communication. The only thing new about this is the medium of the internet.

As for your taking exception to the very concept of rights as an inherent part of civilization, you are free to lead us to a new age of barbarism if that is what you prefer. I would rather see civilization advance and i really don't see how advocating for censorship is going to help that. Really not sure why you attribute rights to wealthy slave owners. seems like a stretch.

 

[LetalisK]

When did censorship suddenly become cool? Thousands of people have died for freedom from it and other forms of government control and now everyone is just spitting on their graves.

Speaking as a service member, please do us and those that came before us the honor of not trivializing our sacrifice by using it as a crutch for your argument. Every time someone brings up the graves of soldiers in an emotional appeal it just brings the deaths of soldiers closer to being a cliche right along with "...then the terrorists have won". Same applies if you were speaking generally and not just about service members.

Editted to be more accurate and polite.

 

[AuronFtw]

What I said was that if she doesn't like any of the interactive elements of video games, and wants them to be skip-able so that she can ONLY listen to the dialogue, then perhaps she should consider writing in a medium that doesn't include those elements, such as movies or books. Because a video game's uniqueness comes from the interactivity it provides, and it's simply stupid to try and strip that element out of video games.

I think you've misread her interview, she was referring to wanting the action parts of the game to be skippable, and letting her jump to the (hopefully interactive) dialogue parts. In essence, making it more like a Japanese visual novel style of game.

Mostly offtopic, I think Mass Effect did this pretty well; even the first game with the weakest combat could be turned down to easy and breezed through without even swapping from assault rifle or using any skills. You couldn't "skip" the combat/action scenes, but they were also so easy you never really stood a chance of dying, which let you get to the next story section easier.

Either way though, I disagree with her because a (good) game's mechanics tell as much of a story as the writing and dialog. If you incentivize/allow players to skip combat or action, they're skipping a chunk of the story the same as if they just mashed X to skip the dialog. You lose a good sense of flow in the game. Regardless, she definitely doesn't deserve the flak she gets - there are plenty of mediocre writers all throughout the industry.

Good to see the truth finally coming out though; the internet lynch mob was quick to blame her leaving on /v/ when in reality the abuse had very little to do with it. I guess it's akin to reddit naming like 10 different people as the boston bomber and getting them all wrong. Herp.