Jim Sterling in court.

[TerranV]

They want Jim to fall silent. I can't even guess if they care about a victory in court or awarded damages or anything, as long as they get to control what he says about their games.

I don't think they actually care about what Jim says about their games but rather, what he says about Steam's lack of quality control. Jim has been one of the most vocal in criticizing Steam letting any old shit be put on their store. If Steam gets its act together then DigiHom might lose its primary place of business. I mean, if they really cared about what people say about the quality of their games, they would make some effort to improve. Instead they carry on because they don't actually care about what customers think.

 

[EternallyBored]

What do we think DigiHom's endgame is here? I can't decide if they want Jim to settle or if they really think they can win this. They strike me as more delusional than stupid (which is an important distinction for predicting behavior). I'm not sure if their rage and wounded pride will prevent them from making sensible legal decisions (although they did file this complaint in the first place). I guess this boils down to "do they want money or an ego boost?"

They want Jim to fall silent. I can't even guess if they care about a victory in court or awarded damages or anything, as long as they get to control what he says about their games.

This is my guess, I think they are smart enough to know they likely won't win but are hoping to exploit the legal system to shut Jim up either temporarily or permanently. Even just by filing the lawsuit any lawyer Jim hires is likely going to recommend he stop talking about them in his videos until the matter is settled, so at least temporarily they have already succeeded in barring Jim from talking about them. Given their track record of releasing shovelware at a fast pace, they may be thinking that even a temporary reprieve may allow them to do what they were doing before and flooding green light with cheap games under various developer names.

 

[FalloutJack]

Blatant thread re-railing attempt:
What do we think DigiHom's endgame is here? I can't decide if they want Jim to settle or if they really think they can win this. They strike me as more delusional than stupid (which is an important distinction for predicting behavior). I'm not sure if their rage and wounded pride will prevent them from making sensible legal decisions (although they did file this complaint in the first place). I guess this boils down to "do they want money or an ego boost?".

I'm sure they want alot of things. Given their patterns, I would say that they keep reaching like this because they're too dumb or unskilled to do otherwise. These do not sound like competent people from whom a competent plan should arise.

Eh, I'm a little hesitant to say that they're dumb. They're certainly delusional, but they do seem to come up with plans that would work if the world ran according to their logic instead of actual logic. IE, "If I keep making games, they'll get better!" and then proceeding to flood Steam with shit they cobble together (and given their hyper-inflated sense of entitlement, they might have every confidence that they'll win this suit and get all the damages they claim). But they do strike me as the type to make the occasional vindictive, emotional decision instead of the rational one.

Let's say this does go to trial, and that they win something. Nothing that they'd reasonably be awarded would outweigh the costs of the actually fighting this case. Even though they might technically win the case, they'll go bankrupt doing it. They get to tell everyone that they beat big mean Jim, claiming it as a victory for indie devs everywhere, but then reality ensues and they've got no money. Now where do they direct all that anger? Jim? Their families? The court system? It's not like they can sue Jim again for the legal fees (and they aren't entitled to be paid for this since they aren't lawyers).

I've always regarded that level of delusional behavior AS idiocy. You're kinda' stating that they'd make decent plans if reality worked that way. Well, it doesn't, and the reason they don't get it is a lack of common sense or even a little research. That, to me, smacks of very little going on upstairs.

 

[DoPo]

Eh, I'm a little hesitant to say that they're dumb. They're certainly delusional, but they do seem to come up with plans that would work if the world ran according to their logic instead of actual logic. IE, "If I keep making games, they'll get better!" and then proceeding to flood Steam with shit they cobble together (and given their hyper-inflated sense of entitlement, they might have every confidence that they'll win this suit and get all the damages they claim).

Actually, two things I want to mention relating to this:

1. I do have some respect for them based on how many games they have apparently managed to produce in a short amount of time. They weren't good games really, by any stretch of the term, they weren't even original, so it's not like they had a good idea behind them. However, they were made. As bad and as unfinished as they are, I can't imagine myself making a game of similar quality in the same amount of time. They do show proficiency in RAD tools which is kind of cool in some respects, to be honest. Execution ends up lacking for sure, but it's still cool.

2. I don't think Digital Homicide's plan is "If I keep making games, they'll get better!". And I don't think so, because I don't think they really want to improve. I think the plan is pretty much "release as many game as possible". Think of it that way - you can spend 3 units of time making an OK game and get 10 units of money out of selling it, or you can spend 1 units of time to make a (barely) passable game and sell if for 5 units of money. Sure, you might not get as much sold copies from the latter approach, but at the same time by the time you wouldn't have been reaching COD sales numbers either, so it doesn't matter as much - for the time they can release one game, they'd release three thus increasing the number of sales through pure zerg rushing Steam. It is actually sensible, really.

Also, there is the extra fact that I think they think their games are OK, as opposed to (barely) passable. It doesn't really change the strategy, though - only if they really were making OK games (and I define that as being "average") they'd be saving up on the polish to make them actually good.

 

[rcs619]

Blatant thread re-railing attempt:
What do we think DigiHom's endgame is here? I can't decide if they want Jim to settle or if they really think they can win this. They strike me as more delusional than stupid (which is an important distinction for predicting behavior). I'm not sure if their rage and wounded pride will prevent them from making sensible legal decisions (although they did file this complaint in the first place). I guess this boils down to "do they want money or an ego boost?".

It really depends on whether or not they are being cynical or genuine here.

If DH is being cynical then I'd wager they see Jim as a $119,000 a year moneybag, and they're probably banking on the assumption that he is actually all bluster, and overblown character, and that he'd actually cave in and settle as soon as they brought their dispute into the real world and applied any "real" pressure.

They *could* be genuine about this though. They've always seemed oddly defensive about their asset-flipped lego games, and from previous videos and conversations they seem to have no idea how fair-use, criticism and journalism actually works. Wouldn't surprise me if the two brothers (and probably their immediate friends and family) have whipped themselves up into a righteous fury and genuinely believe they're in the right here. Echo-chambers and a delusional sense of self-importance will do that.

It could very well be a mixture of both, to be honest.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

No Lawyers, I've read that they will be representing themselves.

GET ME A CAMERA IN THAT COURTROOM! I wanna see that madness unfold! XD

...they could have prevented DigiHom from trading under the name "ECC Games" (or just not had them put their shit on Steam in the first place).

Heeeeyyy.... Couldn't the REAL ECC games make a fuss about that too? THAT is false representation that can cause damage!

 

[KaraFang]

This is my guess, I think they are smart enough to know they likely won't win but are hoping to exploit the legal system to shut Jim up either temporarily or permanently. Even just by filing the lawsuit any lawyer Jim hires is likely going to recommend he stop talking about them in his videos until the matter is settled, so at least temporarily they have already succeeded in barring Jim from talking about them. Given their track record of releasing shovelware at a fast pace, they may be thinking that even a temporary reprieve may allow them to do what they were doing before and flooding green light with cheap games under various developer names.

You know, I think you have a massive point there...

I was thinking about the other indie supporting platform that is "well" known - yes I know there are others - of GOG. Considering how careful GOG is in its curation, I can't see the crap DH claims are games ever making it to that store site.

So, yeah, you're definitely onto something with that.

Also, when people say they hate JS, do they mean the character he portrays or the man himself? Considering we have seen him "out" of character (or a lot more of the actual JS) on things like the Co-optional podcast that he comes across as a decent bloke. His (what I shall refer to as) Jim F***ing Sterling Son persona seems to rub people the wrong way by being so over the top and opinionated, which surely is how you want a reviewer to be? Opinionated and passionate?

 

[Laughing Man]

Given their track record of releasing shovelware at a fast pace, they may be thinking that even a temporary reprieve may allow them to do what they were doing before and flooding green light with cheap games under various developer names.

The problem is that strategy won't work, yes in the early days it may have worked, when DH weren't really known but now Jim's video may well bring the hidden shit piles released under a proxy developer name to light but even Jim himself has said on a number of his videos that certain games have been brought to his attention and that the developer is DH using a different name by members of the community emailing him about them. The community is already doing the hard work for him all he does is shed a little bit of light on whatever steaming pile of trash they are trying to hawk next. DH is well known now a lot of it is because of the on going spat between them and JS but a lot of it is because they just do keep forcing utter garbage on to Steam and are frankly shit developers that behave like shit developers, they are too well known, their antics are too well known and just because JS may not be doing Jimimpression videos on their games because of the legal situation doesn't prevent whatever nonsense they are trying to push next from being brought in to the cold light of day by Steam's own community.

I wonder if Valve actually had any self respect and had introduced a minimum QC on the games that could apply for Greenlight would DH be suing Valve because their games kept getting knocked back, of more interest given that you can refund any game on Steam now for just about any reason I have to assume that DH is so delusional about the quality of their games that they believe JS's videos are stopping people from buying their games in the first place, surely most folk would have bought the games concluded that they were shit of their own accord and then gotten a refund anyway, all Jim's doing is saving everyone a bit of time and effort.

No matter I doubt this will even make it to court anyways.

 

[baddude1337]

I don't know the in-depths of American law, but I'm pretty damn sure they have no ground to stand on.

I can already see Jim counter-suing for their previous shady tactics, loss of income during the case, and threats made towards him.

I mean, the interview alone as them hurling insults and false claims against him. Yet they have picked out one tiny mistake that was almost instantly corrected? This is insane.

Blatant thread re-railing attempt:
What do we think DigiHom's endgame is here? I can't decide if they want Jim to settle or if they really think they can win this. They strike me as more delusional than stupid (which is an important distinction for predicting behavior). I'm not sure if their rage and wounded pride will prevent them from making sensible legal decisions (although they did file this complaint in the first place). I guess this boils down to "do they want money or an ego boost?".

Either way they are setting themselves up for a massive fall, and more likely a large legal bill and Jim counter-sue's them, which I can see him doing.

 

[Fsyco]

I've always regarded that level of delusional behavior AS idiocy. You're kinda' stating that they'd make decent plans if reality worked that way. Well, it doesn't, and the reason they don't get it is a lack of common sense or even a little research. That, to me, smacks of very little going on upstairs.

Fair point, but I still think it's an important distinction. If you give a stupid person a puzzle, they won't be able to figure it out. If you give a delusional person a puzzle, they'll come to a solution that makes sense only to them and insist that they're right. The end-result of incorrect solutions is still the same though.

Eh, I'm a little hesitant to say that they're dumb. They're certainly delusional, but they do seem to come up with plans that would work if the world ran according to their logic instead of actual logic. IE, "If I keep making games, they'll get better!" and then proceeding to flood Steam with shit they cobble together (and given their hyper-inflated sense of entitlement, they might have every confidence that they'll win this suit and get all the damages they claim).

Actually, two things I want to mention relating to this:

1. I do have some respect for them based on how many games they have apparently managed to produce in a short amount of time. They weren't good games really, by any stretch of the term, they weren't even original, so it's not like they had a good idea behind them. However, they were made. As bad and as unfinished as they are, I can't imagine myself making a game of similar quality in the same amount of time. They do show proficiency in RAD tools which is kind of cool in some respects, to be honest. Execution ends up lacking for sure, but it's still cool.

2. I don't think Digital Homicide's plan is "If I keep making games, they'll get better!". And I don't think so, because I don't think they really want to improve. I think the plan is pretty much "release as many game as possible". Think of it that way - you can spend 3 units of time making an OK game and get 10 units of money out of selling it, or you can spend 1 units of time to make a (barely) passable game and sell if for 5 units of money. Sure, you might not get as much sold copies from the latter approach, but at the same time by the time you wouldn't have been reaching COD sales numbers either, so it doesn't matter as much - for the time they can release one game, they'd release three thus increasing the number of sales through pure zerg rushing Steam. It is actually sensible, really.

Also, there is the extra fact that I think they think their games are OK, as opposed to (barely) passable. It doesn't really change the strategy, though - only if they really were making OK games (and I define that as being "average") they'd be saving up on the polish to make them actually good.

In their...'conversation' with Jim, they repeatedly express ideas like "Our games have been improving, and each one is better than the last", and "We deserve praise and success for our efforts." Such sentiments generally indicate delusions of grandeur and narcissistic personality features. They might have stumbled onto a business strategy that works where they can just fork out a ton of shovelware and make a profit, but they seem to think that if they just make enough of them, they'll become good game developers. I don't know if they think their current games are good, but they did seem to think that they will get better if they just keep cranking them out.

GET ME A CAMERA IN THAT COURTROOM! I wanna see that madness unfold! XD

...they could have prevented DigiHom from trading under the name "ECC Games" (or just not had them put their shit on Steam in the first place).

Heeeeyyy.... Couldn't the REAL ECC games make a fuss about that too? THAT is false representation that can cause damage!

It's typically illegal to have cameras in courtrooms. I think that varies by judge, but they're generally not in favor (or so I hear).

The real ECC did claim they were going to pursue legal action against DigiHom, and that might have led to Steam threatening to pull all of DigiHom's games off of Steam. Realistically, though, the real ECC probably just sent a strongly-worded letter or a cease-and-desist to get them to stop, since they probably don't want to spend time and money to go deal with DigiHom, even if DH did commit trademark infringement.

 

[FalloutJack]

I don't know the in-depths of American law, but I'm pretty damn sure they have no ground to stand on.

I can already see Jim counter-suing for their previous shady tactics, loss of income during the case, and threats made towards him.

I can't. What possible damages could he claim? You don't counter sue nutcases, you let the judge call them names and throw them out of court, and you get your costs covered. That's it. Court is too unpredictable and crazy to try anything else, when there is nothing to gain. No blood from those dumb rocks. If they had a bunch of money or assets, then it would be a different story of course, but they're protected by their failure.

While the question of whether there would be a countersuit case to be had is in the air and uncertain, it is not so about who you can make pay if found guilty. If you are in some sort of a case such as this, the courts do not care if you are penniless when guilty. If you ARE found guilty, you are made to pay, one way or the other. If you can't pay immediately, you will be made to pay in installments. If you fail to pay, through neglect or inability, you will be more than likely punished further. They won't ban a shitty company from being a shitty company, but they will squeeze out whatever the sentence demands or jail people over inability to pay, or at least seize worldly assets. There is no "Ha-ha! You can't fine me because I have no money!" escape clause. You just get punished some other way.

 

[Fsyco]

I don't know the in-depths of American law, but I'm pretty damn sure they have no ground to stand on.

I can already see Jim counter-suing for their previous shady tactics, loss of income during the case, and threats made towards him.

I can't. What possible damages could he claim? You don't counter sue nutcases, you let the judge call them names and throw them out of court, and you get your costs covered. That's it. Court is too unpredictable and crazy to try anything else, when there is nothing to gain. No blood from those dumb rocks. If they had a bunch of money or assets, then it would be a different story of course, but they're protected by their failure.

While the question of whether there would be a countersuit case to be had is in the air and uncertain, it is not so about who you can make pay if found guilty. If you are in some sort of a case such as this, the courts do not care if you are penniless when guilty. If you ARE found guilty, you are made to pay, one way or the other. If you can't pay immediately, you will be made to pay in installments. If you fail to pay, through neglect or inability, you will be more than likely punished further. They won't ban a shitty company from being a shitty company, but they will squeeze out whatever the sentence demands or jail people over inability to pay, or at least seize worldly assets. There is no "Ha-ha! You can't fine me because I have no money!" escape clause. You just get punished some other way.

While Jim might be able to counter-sue, would he actually want to do it? Even if he does have grounds for a counter-suit, Jim doesn't strike me as bloodthirsty or vindictive enough to want to keep litigating against DH. Filing a counter-suit would still be stressful for him, I imagine, since he'd have to continue dealing with both the legal system and DigiHom.

I agree with you that they're screwed if he does counter-sue, and it would probably shut down most of their ability to fight with Jim. It would have been really nice if Jim's lawyers could have used an anti-SLAPP motion (dismiss the lawsuit and they can't refile it, and they have to pay Jim's legal fees) to set up a counter-suit, but I've heard that in Arizona they only apply to things involving politics.

 

[FalloutJack]

Snipple

Want? Nah. Not unless a situation arises where those guys become dangerous. Besides, if he did, a REAL company might get on his case.

 

[FalloutJack]

Snip

They do put people in jail if you can't pay, as I hear it, rhough of course how things are done vary from place to place. Even still, bankruptcy still counts as blood in this case. It's the last drop.

 

[Fsyco]

Snip

They do put people in jail if you can't pay, as I hear it, rhough of course how things are done vary from place to place. Even still, bankruptcy still counts as blood in this case. It's the last drop.

Whether or not they jail someone for unpaid fines varies from judge to judge, although they're officially not supposed to do that if someone is too poor to pay them. I remember hearing a while ago that someone important (I forget who) said that courts should stop jailing people for unpaid fines.

Admittedly, I know nothing about bankruptcy laws or how the courts would get money out of DH.

 

[Laughing Man]

I can't. What possible damages could he claim? You don't counter sue nutcases, you let the judge call them names and throw them out of court, and you get your costs covered.

Well they are throwing some pretty big statements, accusing him of lying, accusing him of in sighting hatred against them, accusing him of being a ring leader in an active hate tirade against them and it's all total bullshit, the only thing that has any measure of truth is a statement Jim made which was corrected the instant the mistake was highlighted.

From the point of view of an outsider who has no knowledge of these two, reading the claims you would end up thinking that DH is some poor innocent just trying to make a living and is being denied that by this person who single mindedly is using his public persona as an influence to turn people who would have otherwise bought DH product against DH to the extent that people aren't just not buying their games they are performing acts of hate against the company and it's employees.... and it's utter utter bullshit.

He doesn't have to sue them for their assets but he would well be within his rights to sue them for dragging his name through the mud, I am sure their is a precedent for different types of repayment of damages, imagine an open and lengthy public apology to JS having to be published on their website. Better yet them being forced to link Jimimpression videos of their games on their games store front.

 

[FalloutJack]

Snip

They do put people in jail if you can't pay, as I hear it, rhough of course how things are done vary from place to place. Even still, bankruptcy still counts as blood in this case. It's the last drop.

Whether or not they jail someone for unpaid fines varies from judge to judge, although they're officially not supposed to do that if someone is too poor to pay them. I remember hearing a while ago that someone important (I forget who) said that courts should stop jailing people for unpaid fines.

Admittedly, I know nothing about bankruptcy laws or how the courts would get money out of DH.

Really, they're probably not worth jailing if put in the position. Probably just ruined or - in an extreme case - community service.

 

[FalloutJack]

Snip

They do put people in jail if you can't pay, as I hear it, rhough of course how things are done vary from place to place. Even still, bankruptcy still counts as blood in this case. It's the last drop.

You cannot be placed in jail for failure to pay civil damages you have no means to pay. As for "blood" in this case "blood" refers to money. It COSTS MONEY to take people to court, it costs a lot more to extract all of the money you might win from them. All for the satisfaction of ruining people who have nothing to begin with?

That's beyond petty.

People have done more for less. Didn't say it was right. Said that it happened.

 

[BadNewDingus]

DH probably thought this is the best way to keep their "fame" going. If it's true, which if you heard the guy who runs DH, it sounds like something that would happen.

 

[Fsyco]

So, I just remembered this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbqxPgK87dM
In the video (at 3:35), Jim reproduces the email (with names and other info redacted) where the Polish ECC says they will pursue legal action. Pretty sure that breaks whatever atrophied legs that DH's claim of "He falsely accused us of trademark infringement" was standing on.