Jim Sterling Plays Terrible Game, Angry Dev Reposts Video With Response UPDATE 2

[Atmos Duality]

So...

1) Developer makes a shitty Killing Floor knockoff (complete with suspiciously similar title)
2) Jim Sterling plays it for 10 minutes
3) Developer goes on angry (and gutless) TEXT RAMPAGE for 10 minutes
4) Jim "Fucking" Sterling laughs. A lot.
5) Developer rages some more like a child; all while denying s/he is raging.

Amusing.

 

[happyninja42]

I know this wont be popular but Im going to play a bit of devils advocate here. There are a lot of assumptions flying around that I feel like this is one of those times where an opposite viewpoint is needed. That said, I am not the dev to this game (in fact Ive never made a game in my life) and while I agree that it looks like a bad game I dont like the mob mentality Im seeing either.

1. We dont know that this is the developer behind the slaughtering grounds. IMO it is unfair of us to put the blame solely on him/her/them without any kind of actual evidence. In the case of Wild star games taking down totalbiscuits first impressions of Day one: Gary's incident we actually had evidence that they were behind that. Thats not the case here. In my country, USA, we do not convict individuals of crimes without evidence of wrong doing and in no sane society do we punish people for the actions of another.

1. Nobody here is trying to convict him of a crime. We are critiquing his critique of a critique of his critique of a critique of his work.

Is it possible it was a dev? Yes. Can we prove it was? Not to my knowledge. Without evidence to prove that the Review the reviewer video was created by the developer I feel its unfair to essentially boycott or otherwise harm their company or its image for reasons that dont equate to their work. Furthermore if it was a developer they could legally use the content matching software in Youtube to flag their game from being shown except in the case of content creators that get permission from them. They would loose out on sales but they could do it. Yet they havnt. So assuming this is a developer lets give some credit where credit is due

I'm uncertain who else but the person behind the game would be so motivated to post something like that. Granted, that's not the same as confirming it's by him, but I think it's a fair assumption on anyone's part to guess that it's the game dev doing these posts. Sure, it could be a troll, but I doubt it.

If you think they made a bad game, and I agree TSG is a bad game, then by all means criticize the hell out of it and/or dont buy it. However dont start calling for their game to be pulled or a mass boycott on the basis that you think, but can not prove, the developer made this response video.

I don't see any posts in this thread where people are demanding his product be pulled. Granted I didn't word check every post, but the general mood of the posters in this thread has been along the lines of "lulz, what a dumbass", not "ermahgurd burn his house down and purge him from the interwebs!" So I think your statement here is a little unwarranted.

2. Criticizing a critic is totally fine. There have been many cases where I felt a critic did a poor job addressing the faults of a game or otherwise hurt their own review by not properly learning how the game worked. Years ago when Angry Joe did his review (an actual review not 1st impression) of alpha protocol he failed to learn the mechanics properly and misrepresented the game and how it worked. I think it was last year Totalbiscuit did a 1st impressions of Guise of the wolf in which he made a lot of criticisms that I felt didnt match up with what I was watching in the video. Then there's Jim himself who quite awhile ago pretty much attacked the dark souls community representing us as angry over an "easy mode" that was never even talked about by the director while simultaneously ignoring what we were actually saying which was we felt such a mode would cheapen the game for us. This kind of stuff happens from time to time.

In the case of this specific video I noticed the "quest" list up in the top left within the first 10 seconds of the game and I noticed the "try again" audio que corresponding with the timers. I put two and two together. For whatever reason Jim didnt seem to notice them but I think the not noticing them part was a valid criticism of Jim's 1st impression

Well I didn't notice it right away, I could barely make out the text in the corner. I certainly couldn't see it after the screen had been covered in blood splatter effects, so I guess that's up to opinion on whether or not it was easy to spot that information from a player's standpoint.

Critics, like me, are human beings. We all make mistakes. However a critics work is just as open to criticism as the work they are criticizing. Theres an entire award (the pulitzer prize for criticism) based around the best criticism and critiques with mistakes like the ones I mentioned never measure up to it

Ok? Again, nobody's trying to mute the man for what he's saying about Jim's critique, they are critiquing his critique of the critique, and how bad it is, and how bad it makes him look.

To be fair Review the Reviewer did an abysmal job with critiquing the critique but thats not the point Im trying to make here

So what is the point you are trying to make exactly? Not being rude, but I'm not sure, as you've basically just stated that "people are prone to making mistakes, and we should acknowledge that." I don't think anyone is denying that, and I'm pretty sure Jim Sterling would be first in line to agree with you. (His dictator persona would disagree of course, but the actual guy would be happy to say that he is capable of making mistakes about things)

 

[Fsyco]

This recent string of indie devs lashing out like this really highlights the need for some kind of low-cost PR firm for indie devs. When a game is made by a really small team, any obvious personality disorders shine through, unhindered by any kind of filter between the developer's mind and the developer's actions.

This dev, for example, is clearly some kind of narcissist, evident from the language they use in their videos. They think their game is great, and that anyone who says otherwise is too stupid to appreciate their genius, deliberately lying to get views and spite the dev, or has been brainwashed by aforementioned liars. In the dev's mind, they can do no wrong, so any issues people complain about are the fault of the complainer. This was the exact type of thing that the Guise of the Wolf people (or person) did, even going so far as to ask TotalBiscuit who had "put him up" to heavily criticizing the game. Also note how they generalize their anger, going from "Jim Sterling is a moron" to "ALL reviewers are morons and leaches", and constantly asserts how much "better" and more "worthy" he is than Jim. That's classic narcissistic behavior right there.

 

[w23eer]

Is it possible it was a dev? Yes. Can we prove it was? Not to my knowledge. Without evidence to prove that the Review the reviewer video was created by the developer I feel its unfair to essentially boycott or otherwise harm their company or its image for reasons that dont equate to their work.

An announcement for the video was made on the dev's steam page (although I think it was taken down). And yes, they confirmed it was themselves. They said it was a new series they wanted to work on.

2. Criticizing a critic is totally fine. There have been many cases where I felt a critic did a poor job addressing the faults of a game or otherwise hurt their own review by not properly learning how the game worked. Years ago when Angry Joe did his review (an actual review not 1st impression) of alpha protocol he failed to learn the mechanics properly and misrepresented the game and how it worked. I think it was last year Totalbiscuit did a 1st impressions of Guise of the wolf in which he made a lot of criticisms that I felt didnt match up with what I was watching in the video. Then there's Jim himself who quite awhile ago pretty much attacked the dark souls community representing us as angry over an "easy mode" that was never even talked about by the director while simultaneously ignoring what we were actually saying which was we felt such a mode would cheapen the game for us. This kind of stuff happens from time to time.

In the case of this specific video I noticed the "quest" list up in the top left within the first 10 seconds of the game and I noticed the "try again" audio que corresponding with the timers. I put two and two together. For whatever reason Jim didnt seem to notice them but I think the not noticing them part was a valid criticism of Jim's 1st impression

Critics, like me, are human beings. We all make mistakes. However a critics work is just as open to criticism as the work they are criticizing. Theres an entire award (the pulitzer prize for criticism) based around the best criticism and critiques with mistakes like the ones I mentioned never measure up to it

To be fair Review the Reviewer did an abysmal job with critiquing the critique but thats not the point Im trying to make here

I agree with most of what's written here, but I think the fact they did an abysmal job of critiquing the critic is the point. They blamed Jim for the game's design decisions (overshadowed music, obscure quest box, stupid ammo system) instead of taking personal responsibility. Just as they have the right to critique the critique, everyone else has the right to critique the etc. (although it doesn't need to be quite so vitriolic).
To be honest, I don't like Jim's squirty plays. He just seems dismissive and negatively predisposed to everything. I always felt it was unfair (although I reckon he's gotten better recently), but I feel he hit the nail on the head with TSR video.

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

I do have a tiny bit of sympathy for the game dev, not much, but just a weeny bit.

While these aren't reviews, when you've got someone as well known as Jim Sterling, who has been well known as a reviewer for a long time on destructoid and now reviews editor on the escapist, ripping your game a new one without bothering to look at the game properly I can imagine it feels like it's not being given a fair shot. Maybe if it was made a bit clearer what the format of squirty plays is in the intro "This isn't a review, it's a literal first impression, turn the game on, jump straight in, no look at options, controls etc and record what happens", it might save a bit of the butthurt. Still, if your format is going to be "Ha Ha, this is shit!" as opposed to "This is really bad and here's why..." expect more angry responses.

Given how the developer expects Jim Sterling to have researched everything about this indie game, including knowing that land mines are bugged and you have to have a weapon out to pick up ammo for it, the least he could do is a bit of research as to whether or not Squirty plays is a review or a first impression.

 

[Lunar Templar]

But hurt indie dev that's to stupid to tell the difference between a first impressions video where the person goes in cold (knowing nothing about the game) and an actual review.

meh, nothing to see here, move along.

 

[Zykon TheLich_v1legacy]

Given how the developer expects Jim Sterling to have researched everything about this indie game, including knowing that land mines are bugged and you have to have a weapon out to pick up ammo for it, the least he could do is a bit of research as to whether or not Squirty plays is a review or a first impression.

He probably should, yes.

 

[DoPo]

1. We dont know that this is the developer behind the slaughtering grounds. IMO it is unfair of us to put the blame solely on him/her/them without any kind of actual evidence. In the case of Wild star games taking down totalbiscuits first impressions of Day one: Gary's incident we actually had evidence that they were behind that. Thats not the case here. In my country, USA, we do not convict individuals of crimes without evidence of wrong doing and in no sane society do we punish people for the actions of another.

Is it possible it was a dev? Yes. Can we prove it was? Not to my knowledge. Without evidence to prove that the Review the reviewer video was created by the developer I feel its unfair to essentially boycott or otherwise harm their company or its image for reasons that dont equate to their work. Furthermore if it was a developer they could legally use the content matching software in Youtube to flag their game from being shown except in the case of content creators that get permission from them. They would loose out on sales but they could do it. Yet they havnt. So assuming this is a developer lets give some credit where credit is due

Review The Reviewer Now Live! Jim Sterling Review Now Available On Youtube!

Hello Everyone! This is the first part in my new series Review the Reviewer, here you will find indepth commentary describing the successes and failures of our community reviewers. First up Jim Sterling, thank you for taking the time to review The Slaughtering Grounds. You might find some of my review comments helpful in making you a more productive reviewer in the future. I rather enjoyed your video, so I will be sure to continue down the list of some of your best reviews before I have the community vote on the next reviewer to do. Enjoy the video and check the channel for more new videos coming soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jhXMQ-oXUU&feature=youtu.be

Review TheReviewer

This is an announcement posted on The Slaughtering Grounds' store page. It was there yesterday. It is not there today but can be seen in Google cache (EDIT: embedded link doesn't work due to...dunno, probably the format of it):

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://store.steampowered.com/app/329950

Sure it doesn't say the words "I, the developer of this game, am behind this" but there is only so much of "Well, we can't TOTES be sure" before Occam's razor cuts the crap.

If you think they made a bad game, and I agree TSG is a bad game, then by all means criticize the hell out of it and/or dont buy it. However dont start calling for their game to be pulled or a mass boycott on the basis that you think, but can not prove, the developer made this response video.

And who are these masses off people all calling for a mass boycott in this thread, exactly?

2. Criticizing a critic is totally fine. There have been many cases where I felt a critic did a poor job addressing the faults of a game or otherwise hurt their own review by not properly learning how the game worked.

And again, who are the people who say the exact opposite of that? The complaints I've read are about how inane and ridiculous the "review" of the "reviewer" was. Like, to start off, it wasn't a review. As Jim also pointed out. It was little more than a literal first impression of the game. So to start off, there is no reviewer in this relationship. On both sides, as there wasn't much review on the Review TheReviewer's part, either.

In the case of this specific video I noticed the "quest" list up in the top left within the first 10 seconds of the game and I noticed the "try again" audio que corresponding with the timers. I put two and two together. For whatever reason Jim didnt seem to notice them but I think the not noticing them part was a valid criticism of Jim's 1st impression

The text was ridiculously small. I couldn't read it when watching the video in 720p on full screen. Well, I noticed something, but couldn't really read it well - I saw a 10. I maybe could have focused and strained my eyes, but judging by the size, it didn't seem important. In fact, judging by the looks of the game, I half-assumed it was debug information left in.

To be fair Review the Reviewer did an abysmal job with critiquing the critique but thats not the point Im trying to make here

Yeah, your point was...lost to me. What was it? You said we shouldn't be hasty to judge but caution wasn't really needed. You also chastised some people for stuff but I don't know who because nobody here has said what you didn't want people to say. So...yeah.

 

[gxs]

1. We dont know that this is the developer behind the slaughtering grounds.

Actually we do. They admitted it in a topic on Steam Discussions when they posted the first video reply but they removed it now.

Edit: I'm blind. Found it now. http://steamcommunity.com/app/329950/discussions/4/613940477857791275/

This is the first part in MY new series Review the Reviewer,...

So yeah the developer is a douche to say the least.

 

[Something Amyss]

What a whiner. He's criticizing Jim for not playing the game that he wanted him to, but none of what he wants is reflected in the design. Jim was wandering around aimlessly because the level design was crap. There was a no tutorial, and a terrible UI to boot.

And a lot of his complaints are, basically, "it was obvious to me, the designer."

Well, no shit. But judging from the overall commentary, it wasn't obvious to a lot of people.

And I agree. This was bad game design, and bad level design.

To be fair Review the Reviewer did an abysmal job with critiquing the critique but thats not the point Im trying to make here

But it is the point a lot of people are trying to make. I don't think anyone thinks Jim should be above criticism. I think they're mostly on this guy (designer or not) for being an idiot.

I'm actually hoping it's satire, myself.

 

[shrekfan246]

I'm actually hoping it's satire, myself.

Postmodern satire. It's when you ensure you're indistinguishable from the people you're satirizing. Flawless plan, and executed to perfection!

 

[Fsyco]

I'm actually hoping it's satire, myself.

It isn't. The language he uses is too genuine, and his logic seems too internally consistent. This is exactly what delusions of grandeur look like.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

You know, all of these articles and stories about Devs, PR, etc. saying really stupid shit has lead me to believe there is a job that desperately needs filled in the gaming industry. Which I will gladly take the burden of doing. The job involves me walking into Devs' homes, offices, or wherever they may be when stupidity strikes. I clear my throat, put my mouth inches from their ear, and proceed to shout "Are you fucking stupid?!" right into their ear drum. Pay depends on how much publicity and game sales I prevent them from losing.

Being serious, this guy is acting like a fucking child. Not everyone is gonna like your game, you gotta deal with that. Don't go on the internet and make yourself look like a total immature asshole though because someone doesn't like your "masterpiece".

That job already exists. It is what PR companies are for. Sadly, these small indies lack the funds for PR reps who prevent this sort of thing. Maybe "sadly" is the wrong word. Watching people with anger issues and no impulse control sink their own work by being loud, public jerks has a decidingly schadenfreude feel.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Wow. Some people just can't take criticism.

 

[[Kira Must Die]]

I gotta say, that is really, really pathetic.

Such an immature, childish way to respond to criticism.

 

[Loonyyy]

Pretty sure that background image, the watercolour-y figure, is stolen. I'm pretty sure I've seen it elsewhere.

But this isn't even an artist or a dev who's rightfully upset that something they did was criticized. This is like someone making the 1945 demo in GameMaker, doing it badly, and selling it, and then being upset that people don't see the vision. A mismatched collection of random models (Which apparently resemble some in another game, and it wouldn't suprise me if that asset was stolen too), barely viewable graphics, no feedback for ingame systems, and fucking laughable killstreak notifications that they unironically borrowed the inspiration from Unreal Tournament et al. That video is a better review of the content than any lengthy experience could be. That's not the product of someone who's worked hard to learn what they're doing. That's a first mess around with a dev kit. It'd be like calling tooling around in G-Mod "Level Design in Source Engine".

And apparently Jim was playing terribly? He avoided enemies, shot accurately at them. At which point he ran out of ammo (And that game has an extroadinarily misleading HUD) and went to find more, at which point he discovered: The game does not pause (THIS IS NOT A FEATURE. BITE ME DARK SOULS. THERE IS NO POSSIBLE JUSTIFICATION FOR THIS), You only pick up ammo for the weapon you have out, There are landmines that don't work, and apparently that's his fault for having the pistol out (His last weapon that had ammo), which apparently is a terrible gun, and that he was meant to look in obvious places for ammo (Lying on the ground is not obvious. Lying in stupid places on the ground is not obvious. It's common in old games, but that's not something you want to be proud of).

I don't think that he's hurt his chances at continuing doing what he does though, because no-one of any talent or training would want to work with an obvious scam artist. Let's wait for the Streissand effect.

 

[Something Amyss]

I'm actually hoping it's satire, myself.

Postmodern satire. It's when you ensure you're indistinguishable from the people you're satirizing. Flawless plan, and executed to perfection!

Hey, it worked for Andy Kaufman, and he didn't even have to pretend not to know what a shift key was.

It isn't. The language he uses is too genuine, and his logic seems too internally consistent. This is exactly what delusions of grandeur look like.

Never underestimate the power of Poe's Law.

 

[Something Amyss]

Wow. Some people just can't take criticism.

This isn't about criticism! It's about ethics in journalism!

 

[Flunk]

You know, good developers respond to constructive criticism by improving their products. All successful businesses listle to their customers. Mocking them gets you nowhere.

 

[-Dragmire-]

Pretty sure that background image, the watercolour-y figure, is stolen. I'm pretty sure I've seen it elsewhere.

I grabbed this from a link in the youtube comments for Jim's counter vid.

I believe this is the original artist's site.

http://pekka.cgsociety.org/art/forest-troll-fairy-tale-2-2d-449595

I have read that someone who knew the artist said that the artist never gave permission to use the image but that's just a comment on the internet which may or may not be true.

[small]I read that a guy knew a guy that said a thing... damn, self, excellent writing there.[/small]