Jim Sterling says PS+ humiliates the game industry

[flarty]

Err, no.

There are loads of ways where people claim you won't get caught but the people who make these promises have been proven to be wrong before, the point is they can and will block off your system if you try to modify anything.

Silly me, I'm not talking from experience of using the true blue dongle (i do not condone or encourage piracy)

Services that sell games.

The playstation store sells the games, not ps+.

They aren't. They certainly aren't loved. Macs make up a tiny proportion of home computer sales, even smaller proportion of actual connected users, their smartphone market is imploding. Apple were admired for a time as they had the lead in consumer electronics, they were not loved BECAUSE they had a locked down ecosystem, do not mistake what came with it was what it was loved for. Look at the apple keynotes, they go on about the phones hardware features and neat interface aspects, they underplay how you are in a walled garden.

The walled in garden is responsible for the claim "it just works" that many apple fanboys love to use. Which is why console fans like consoles. See the similarities? How is their smartphone user base imploding? Please provide evidence of this instead of pulling bogus facts out of uranus

Because Steve Ballmer is an idiot.

He inherited the company from Bill Gates, a very smart man, smart enough to know he had more money than he could spend in a lifetime so be better retire early, and put his equivalent of Smithers in charge. Microsoft have a long history of doing dumb things, but they can get away with it because they have more money than most countries.

Lol He was smart enough to realise he could retire early once becoming a billionaire? That is no testament to his intelligence. Nor is the fact that Bill passed up on being first to market with an ereader in the 90's and inventing the tablet but doing nothing with it. Steve Ballmer inherited a company that had already lost its way and in the rush to stay relevant they have copied their biggest rival and put their own spin on it. We have yet to see it work but phone sales for windows 8 were promising over Christmas.

The end of the day your obviously just a deranged pc fanboy judging everyone by your own standards instead of looking at the bigger picture. Not everyone wants to invest in a gaming pc. For some people gaming is just a past time not an enthusiast hobby.

 

[COMaestro]

*snip*

At this point you are not even arguing the topic, you are pretty much declaring that no one should own a console over a PC and not accepting the point at all that people have different tastes, which has been stated before. If I really like Mountain Dew, you are not going to convince me that Sierra Mist is better because it costs less. I like my Dew. In this case, I like my console. Yes, it may ultimately be cheaper to go all PC because you can shop around for the best deals in gaming. I have a PC, and have used it to game plenty. I have games that are only available on it, but then I have my PS3 for most of my gaming because I prefer to just sit back on my couch with a controller and have fun playing whatever. There are PC exclusives for which I have a PC and there are console exclusives which I have my PS3 for. There's nothing wrong with owning both.

And if you have a PS3 and use it, then PS+ is a good service. It is not mandatory, like Xbox Live, which puts it ahead of that. You may only get to rent games for a time (as long as you subscribe), but that is typically plenty of time to play and finish the game and move on to something new. If you really like the game, then you can buy it to show support for the developer. As stated before, for my $50, I will have access to Gravity Rush, Uncharted: Golden Abyss, Darksiders, Payday: the Heist, Mega Man 9 and 10, LittleBigPlanet 2, Double Dragon Neon, Anomaly, Wipeout 2048, and some other games that I can't remember right now, since I haven't played them. I will have access to these games for a year! I should be able to finish them in that time, and this is all from one month of being with PS+. I'm considering it a good investment. That does not mean I'm a corporate stooge or whatever is was you've been calling people. I'm not falling for any tricks. I am paying $50 for hours and hours (more like months, really) of entertainment. Just because I will not be able to play the games come next January without spending $50 more does not invalidate the enjoyment I will get through the year playing these games and any others that show up as free downloads for PS+ users.

No one is discounting the PC, despite the title of the thread. The only person discounting anything is you, by asserting that there is no reason a person should want to use a console over a PC. There have been plenty of reasons given that are valid. Just because you can argue with them does not make that a person's opinion invaild. There is an expense involved, and depending on the store you go to, some places will charge over $100 to build a PC. I've seen it before. Some people are so scared of technology they can't even set up a monitor. A MONITOR! I know because I work in IT and get tickets for stuff like this all the time. They wouldn't have a clue on how to even begin to build their own computer. I've been building mine ever since high school and you are right. It isn't hard. But some people are too scared to even try. That's on them. Ultimately it all comes down to opinion and everyone has the right to their own.

And I'm done with this thread. It's just a headache at this point.

 

[tangoprime]

I live in a small town, I am one of 5 PC workshops in the area and we all have a steady business of all sorts of people upgrading their PCs.

aaaaand there we have it.

Seriously though, some people just love consoles. We all know PCs are better though. I have a PC. I use it far more than my consoles. I have Steam, and use it a lot. I also have a PS3, so that I can play GT5 / Test Drive Unlimited 2 (good god, don't get me started on how terrible the PC versions of that and it's predecessor were) and Dynasty Warriors, as well as my library of PS2 games (still rocking an old 60gb fat model). I like sitting on the couch with my fiance and watching movies on netflix, or playing Fat Princess or Buzz! Quiz World.

Sometimes, the console just scratches an itch my PC can't, so seriously, just come off of it already. You're not adding ANYTHING to the conversation, at all. Furthermore, way to go and further the "PC gamers are stuck up elitists" mindset, it's your kind of incessant argumentativeness that turns people away.

 

[Treblaine]

Seriously though, some people just love consoles. We all know PCs are better though.

Seriously, statements like these need qualification. Unless those people are masochists, there needs to be a rational explanation for why they reasonably go for something they know is worse.

Sometimes, the console just scratches an itch my PC can't

All I want is an explanation that isn't in vague indefinite terms as this.

But finally, you admit PC is relevant, then why is it excluded from any value comparison with console market, why this double standard?!?!

*snip*

At this point you are not even arguing the topic,

I think you miss how this is relevant:

PlayStation Plus declared to be such a good deal that it humiliates the entire games industry.

What about Steam and PC in general, that is part of games industry.

No. PC doesn't count because of (1) fallacies, (2) lies and (3) "ooh, countless other reasons".

declaring that no one should own a console over a PC

I am arguing against the very inverse that entirely rejects the entire PC market from any kind of relevancy.

all that people have different tastes

How is better value for money a matter of "taste"?!?!

I prefer to just sit back on my couch with a controller and have fun playing whatever.

Implying PC can't do that, or that that is somehow a property inherent to consoles.

And if you have a PS3 and use it, then PS+ is a good service.

I find it insulting for you to simply declare that after all I've said, all my carefully constructed points. It just acts like I've said nothing. You're jsut repeating arguments I've disputed before.

The only person discounting anything is you, by asserting that there is no reason a person should want to use a console over a PC.

Never did I categorically exclude console gaming.

some places will charge over $100 to build a PC.

So what. You go to some restaurants they will charge $10'000 for a meal, that says nothing of how much it actually typically costs.

Some people are so scared of technology they can't even set up a monitor. A MONITOR!

Most are not. Most can follow a straightforward instructions manual.

But some people are too scared to even try.

Why do you think that is? Because of people hysterically going on about how hard it is on forums, and excluding PC gaming from any value comparison with console gaming because of that reason, conveniently playing into the self-confirmation logic of those who have invested in a particular console.

 

[tangoprime]

Seriously though, some people just love consoles. We all know PCs are better though.

Seriously, statements like these need qualification. Unless those people are masochists, there needs to be a rational explanation for why they reasonably go for something they know is worse.

Sometimes, the console just scratches an itch my PC can't

All I want is an explanation that isn't in vague indefinite terms as this.

I elaborated. You apparently ignored it. Your fault.

Edit: But here are the bullet points, in case you actually, somehow didn't see anything but the first and last lines of my post:
1. I have a PC and use it for at least 90% of my gaming time.
2. I have a PS3, because I like to sit in the living room and play psn/party games with my fiance. And use it for media in the living room.
2b. I I have a PS3, because I can't play GT5 on PC at all. I can't (reliably) play TDU2 on PC, and my club plays it on console. I can't play fun little PSN local multiplayer titles that I like to play with family on my PC.

Seriously, you're trying to sell a product here that nobody is buying (metaphor, so you don't have to go into a sales tirade again), so go peddle your elitist rants elsewhere. You keep rehashing the same tired arguments for the last 5+ pages, nobody cares.

 

[flarty]

I elaborated. You apparently ignored it. Your fault.

I wouldnt even bother trying to debate with this guy. He is seriously just an elitist.
Despite that most of the posters in this thread seem to be pc gamers and appreciate that PS+ is a good deal, He seems to refuse to accept that stance and attempts to educate us about things we already know whilst fabricating facts and ignoring anything that debunks him.

 

[Treblaine]

Services that sell games.

The playstation store sells the games, not ps+.

But that is entirely to do with the Sony Store...

The walled in garden is responsible for the claim "it just works" that many apple fanboys love to use. Which is why console fans like consoles. See the similarities? How is their smartphone user base imploding? Please provide evidence of this instead of pulling bogus facts out of uranus

No. It "just worked" even when iphones were jailbroken. It was the highest standard of hardware and the well designed UI that did it.

Android is imploding their market share.

http://www.cultofandroid.com/21610/lg-overtakes-apple-to-claim-second-place-in-u-s-phone-market-share-report/

Lol He was smart enough to realise he could retire early once becoming a billionaire? That is no testament to his intelligence. Nor is the fact that Bill passed up on being first to market with an ereader in the 90's and inventing the tablet but doing nothing with it. Steve Ballmer inherited a company that had already lost its way and in the rush to stay relevant they have copied their biggest rival and put their own spin on it. We have yet to see it work but phone sales for windows 8 were promising over Christmas.

The end of the day your obviously just a deranged pc fanboy judging everyone by your own standards instead of looking at the bigger picture. Not everyone wants to invest in a gaming pc. For some people gaming is just a past time not an enthusiast hobby.

It's not supposed to be a testament to his intelligence, he needs no testament, his business genius is undeniable.

Uhh, you don't know much about ereaders. You couldn't jsut take them to the market in the 1990's. For one, E-ink dispalyes weren't even ready for commercial production till well into the 2000's and even then you'd need a ready supply of digitised books. What do you know, you have less business sense than Bill Gates.

Gates did not invent the "tablet" he invented a laptop with the screen stuck to the back, it was too heavy, had no a touchscreen that needed a stylus, and tiny battery life. Apple invented the tablet, as we know it, by making one that is LIGHT, has a LONG battery life and has a very good interface, particulalry a very sensitive multi-touch touchscreen.

The end of the day your obviously just a deranged pc fanboy

Yes, deranged for expecting that PC gets fair comparison as part of the games industry that PlayStation Plus supposedly humiliates the entirety of...

Not everyone wants to invest in a gaming pc.

The point I'm disputing is that so few ever would possibly that PC gaming should be entirely excluded from any value comparison with console gaming.

For some people gaming is just a past time not an enthusiast hobby.

PC gaming doesn't have to be an "enthusiast hobby".

I am supposedly the fanboy yet I have to constantly correct and endless stream of false claims and erroneous assumptions about my pastime.

 

[Treblaine]

Seriously though, some people just love consoles. We all know PCs are better though.

Seriously, statements like these need qualification. Unless those people are masochists, there needs to be a rational explanation for why they reasonably go for something they know is worse.

Sometimes, the console just scratches an itch my PC can't

All I want is an explanation that isn't in vague indefinite terms as this.

I elaborated. You apparently ignored it. Your fault.

Edit: But here are the bullet points, in case you actually, somehow didn't see anything but the first and last lines of my post:
1. I have a PC and use it for at least 90% of my gaming time.
2. I have a PS3, because I like to sit in the living room and play psn/party games with my fiance. And use it for media in the living room.
2b. I I have a PS3, because I can't play GT5 on PC at all. I can't (reliably) play TDU2 on PC, and my club plays it on console. I can't play fun little PSN local multiplayer titles that I like to play with family on my PC.

Seriously, you're trying to sell a product here that nobody is buying (metaphor, so you don't have to go into a sales tirade again), so go peddle your elitist rants elsewhere. You keep rehashing the same tired arguments for the last 5+ pages, nobody cares.

Right Okay, I can accept that. And I never excluded PS3 entirely. If you could clarify that consoles have strength in casual easy split screen games, you'd be very right there.

What I cannot accept is PC gaming being excluded from any value comparisons with the likes of Playstation Plus. As has been going on throughout this thread of which I have been arguing against.

Why is it held off separately?

 

[F'Angus]

Ugh 4 $ a month isn't much , people spend more than that in coffee in a day . Plus i find XbL has a better internet connection than PS3, so if i'm paying 4$ a month to have a better connection with online games , i'll gladly pay.

This is always brought as a counter-argument... I own both a PS3 and 360 and the connection is no different, it just depends on your own connection and what games you're playing.



OT: I agree PS+ has been fantastic, though it's annoying when I buy a game then it appears on PS+ a week later for free.

Still the 360's idea about giving a discount based on gamerscore sounded great...until I realised that it was only like 1% off games...not so much a deal.

 

[Oly J]

Yeah, PS+ is really good.
Loads of free games and movies, discounts... great stuff.

I was subscribed from the beginning just for the extra online storage space, imagine how awesome all the free stuff is

 

[flarty]

But that is entirely to do with the Sony Store...

Erm no its not. Its completely optional extra. Like paying for vip status.

It's not supposed to be a testament to his intelligence, he needs no testament, his business genius is undeniable.

Uhh, you don't know much about ereaders. You couldn't jsut take them to the market in the 1990's. For one, E-ink dispalyes weren't even ready for commercial production till well into the 2000's and even then you'd need a ready supply of digitised books. What do you know, you have less business sense than Bill Gates.

Gates did not invent the "tablet" he invented a laptop with the screen stuck to the back, it was too heavy, had no a touchscreen that needed a stylus, and tiny battery life. Apple invented the tablet, as we know it, by making one that is LIGHT, has a LONG battery life and has a very good interface, particulalry a very sensitive multi-touch touchscreen.

So why say he was smart enough to realise he could retire? Sounds a little condescending.
They had a prototype ereader developed in 1998. They invented the concept of the tablet and showed off a prototype, but they decided not to pursue it beyond that. Just because you think it was big and bulky does not mean they didnt have the ability to refine the product, unfortunately MS was creatively bankrupt by this point.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2012/07/03/the-terrible-management-technique-that-cost-microsoft-its-creativity/

Yes, deranged for expecting that PC gets fair comparison as part of the games industry that PlayStation Plus supposedly humiliates the entirety of...

Well i interpreted it as the console market, since owning a console is nothing like owning a pc

The point I'm disputing is that so few ever would possibly that PC gaming should be entirely excluded from any value comparison with console gaming.

Erm this makes no sense, are you agreeing with me that pc services are unlike console services due to their open nature?

PC gaming doesn't have to be an "enthusiast hobby".

I am supposedly the fanboy yet I have to constantly correct and endless stream of false claims and erroneous assumptions about my pastime.

It pretty much does, otherwise when you run into a problem you need to be tech savvy enough to understand how to fix them. Like disabling 3 cores on my Q6600 when i first got my hands on fallout 3. Or trying to figure out why at times Arkham city lagged beyond belief for no good reason. Or having a pc that more than met the requirement when gears of war was released on pc but still having to buy an extra 2gb of ram so it ran properly.

Let alone just having to research new components every time an upgrade is needed.

 

[tangoprime]

Yeah, PS+ is really good.
Loads of free games and movies, discounts... great stuff.

I was subscribed from the beginning just for the extra online storage space, imagine how awesome all the free stuff is

Same here. I think I got a free month back during that account compromise debacle, really enjoyed the service, and kept it since. Cloud storage of my saves is really nice, and makes me significantly less paranoid about losing my saves if this 6 year old 60gb ever yellow-lights, and I fell in love with the ability to sample full games before buying them, in a lot of cases, sampling them for a while for free, liking, then going and buying it on Steam for PC (are you paying attention now Treblaine?), the ability to do that with games that don't have demos is a great addition you rarely see anywhere else, except of course when steam does the very occasional "free weekends."

 

[flarty]

No. It "just worked" even when iphones were jailbroken. It was the highest standard of hardware and the well designed UI that did it.

Android is imploding their market share.

http://www.cultofandroid.com/21610/lg-overtakes-apple-to-claim-second-place-in-u-s-phone-market-share-report/

WTF? half my post vanished ?

But as in regards to this. I work with several software engineers for a small telemetry firm. All of them adore apple for its fool proofness. Not for its design or UI. The fact that you cant break the damn thing and everything works. Every app is tested before going on the app store etc etc (that ecosystem). As opposed to android where sometimes it just pot luck. I prefer android myself and have a nexus 4, but i love to tinker.

Also i ask for you to prove to me that apples user base is imploding and you post an article about android instead? A non working link at that.

 

[Oly J]

Yeah, PS+ is really good.
Loads of free games and movies, discounts... great stuff.

I was subscribed from the beginning just for the extra online storage space, imagine how awesome all the free stuff is

Same here. I think I got a free month back during that account compromise debacle, really enjoyed the service, and kept it since. Cloud storage of my saves is really nice, and makes me significantly less paranoid about losing my saves if this 6 year old 60gb ever yellow-lights, and I fell in love with the ability to sample full games before buying them, in a lot of cases, sampling them for a while for free, liking, then going and buying it on Steam for PC (are you paying attention now Treblaine?), the ability to do that with games that don't have demos is a great addition you rarely see anywhere else, except of course when steam does the very occasional "free weekends."

the cloud storage saved my ass in regards to a Skyrim save with about 180 hours clocked, if PS+ had done nothing else for me that would be enough, lol also I never got around to getting Batman Arkham City, on PS+ got it free, if I had a PC that could play anything more advanced than Civilization 3, I'd probably really like Steam too, but other than that, the PS3 is the only console this generation I never regretted getting

 

[tangoprime]

Like disabling 3 cores on my Q6600 when i first got my hands on fallout 3. Or trying to figure out why at times Arkham city lagged beyond belief for no good reason.

Oh, I remember those two! Wasn't the Arkham Asylum/City problem something about the physics taxing the GPU too heavily unless you were running one card dedicated specifically for PhysX processing? IIRC, during those Scarecrow sequences, FPS would bog down like crazy even on my pair of GTX 560TIs, and I ended up having to disable SLI to get it to run properly without having it lag out for several minutes.

I could come up with a huge list of other conflicts, ESPECIALLY ON OLDER GAMES SOLD ON STEAM, where you have to do some pretty in depth research to get your product running. I think the latest problem we ran into was where the versions of Civ 5 are different between the PC and Mac copies on Steam, and it doesn't allow you to play multiplayer between them because of the version mismatch, so I had to downgrade my PC version and disable steam auto-update in order to play with my fiance on her MBP. Oh, and ran into some Win7 compat issues when I picked up KotOR on Steam during a sale back in December.

 

[flarty]

Like disabling 3 cores on my Q6600 when i first got my hands on fallout 3. Or trying to figure out why at times Arkham city lagged beyond belief for no good reason.

Oh, I remember those two! Wasn't the Arkham Asylum/City problem something about the physics taxing the GPU too heavily unless you were running one card dedicated specifically for PhysX processing? IIRC, during those Scarecrow sequences, FPS would bog down like crazy even on my pair of GTX 560TIs, and I ended up having to disable SLI to get it to run properly without having it lag out for several minutes.

I could come up with a huge list of other conflicts, ESPECIALLY ON OLDER GAMES SOLD ON STEAM, where you have to do some pretty in depth research to get your product running. I think the latest problem we ran into was where the versions of Civ 5 are different between the PC and Mac copies on Steam, and it doesn't allow you to play multiplayer between them because of the version mismatch, so I had to downgrade my PC version and disable steam auto-update in order to play with my fiance on her MBP. Oh, and ran into some Win7 compat issues when I picked up KotOR on Steam during a sale back in December.

What are you talking about? PC gaming is far superior to console gaming in every way, and is not at all an enthusiast hobby that i like to engage myself in.

But seriously i can not remember the solution for the arkham city bug, iirc there is non but the lag is only present in the first part of the game in jokers den. I tried disabling my physx and i also was just using a singular 560ti. I just had to struggle past it and the rest of the game was fine.

 

[tangoprime]

Like disabling 3 cores on my Q6600 when i first got my hands on fallout 3. Or trying to figure out why at times Arkham city lagged beyond belief for no good reason.

Oh, I remember those two! Wasn't the Arkham Asylum/City problem something about the physics taxing the GPU too heavily unless you were running one card dedicated specifically for PhysX processing? IIRC, during those Scarecrow sequences, FPS would bog down like crazy even on my pair of GTX 560TIs, and I ended up having to disable SLI to get it to run properly without having it lag out for several minutes.

I could come up with a huge list of other conflicts, ESPECIALLY ON OLDER GAMES SOLD ON STEAM, where you have to do some pretty in depth research to get your product running. I think the latest problem we ran into was where the versions of Civ 5 are different between the PC and Mac copies on Steam, and it doesn't allow you to play multiplayer between them because of the version mismatch, so I had to downgrade my PC version and disable steam auto-update in order to play with my fiance on her MBP. Oh, and ran into some Win7 compat issues when I picked up KotOR on Steam during a sale back in December.

What are you talking about? PC gaming is far superior to console gaming in every way

Haha, totally! I must be having a momentary lapse, saying that my $500 worth of graphics cards had problems running a game that worked perfectly fine on a 5 year old Xbox without doing research to find a tweak required to get it to be playable.

 

[Waaghpowa]

From what I remember, Xbox live doesn't offer anything that I couldn't already do with my smartphone/PC. Group chat? Skype. Twitter, facebook, netflix, all of which are accessible on both my smartphone and any PC. Having to pay a sub to even use those is incredibly stupid. This is especially the case with Netflix. I need a sub to use my Netflix sub? Fuck off.

Now if you're ok with paying for your internet service again, good for you.

Playstation+ is objectively better. 1) it's optional and doesn't hold back essential features for not having it. 2) It offers discounts and free games, which as far as I know, Live does not do. 3) You don't get ads in your console whether you pay or not. Microsoft can't even be bothered to remove ads even though you're basically paying for them to flip a switch from "ONLINE OFF" to "ONLINE ON".

And as far as the "Better online" argument is concerned, I have never had a problem with my PS3's connectivity that wasn't related to my router or ISP. What I think the problem is that the "average" person assumes that wireless works fine anywhere, when in reality the PS3 has a relatively weaker wifi adapter built in. So you get a lot of cases where people are putting their PS3's way off in the corner of their house and getting a flaky connection. My PS3 is in the same room as the router, and it works perfectly fine. It's not necessarily a reflection of the service, but on the hardware and peoples general ignorance.

 

[flarty]

I think its safe to

Haha, totally! I must be having a momentary lapse, saying that my $500 worth of graphics cards had problems running a game that worked perfectly fine on a 5 year old Xbox without doing research to find a tweak required to get it to be playable.

Exactly i love pc gaming. My pc is my first port of call when ever i want to play a game. But i can not deny how brilliant the simplicity of a console is. I've owned all 3 consoles and the one i put the most time in with is the PS3 besides the shitty updates it was great to just be able to switch on and play. That's what people want from a console, a completely streamlines experience that doesn't try to take advantage of you. Something that ps+ embodies in the console market, something that he whose name we do not speak cant seem to comprehend.

It's not necessarily a reflection of the service, but on the hardware and peoples general ignorance.

Are you using one of the older phat ps3? Apparently the newer slim models have much more capable wifi solution