Jim Sterling says PS+ humiliates the game industry

[Strazdas]

Ugh 4 $ a month isn't much , people spend more than that in coffee in a day . Plus i find XbL has a better internet connection than PS3, so if i'm paying 4$ a month to have a better connection with online games , i'll gladly pay.

no they dont. people dont spend 4 dolalrs on coffe every day. if they do - they are idiots.
also i spend an exact 0 on coffe, so i still pay 4 dolalrs too much for xbox.
internet connection is your sided, not the maker, unless its protocols used, which is doubtful but not beyond SONY.
you know what, get a PC, you will get even better connection for free.

 

[Treblaine]

SNIP

A couple of my friends got banned from Steam a little while back, mostly for being dicks on the forum.

Most people playing on consoles don't give a fuck about mods. I play a lot on PC these days and I still don't really care about mods.

I've found DLC codes at a discount in retailers before. Though usually a while after it's been out, which is the case for steam sales too. And also at a good 50-70% off on PS+.

And yeah, I know there's very little policing for chat on Steam, it could do with someone, the chat in games of TF2 or BC2 are frequently vile and unpleasant to read.

And I can get Infamous 2 for what, £25 on Amazon? I could get it free on PS+. Yeah, I pay for the service, but like I said, I get enough back on it to cover the initial investment. I could get banned and lose access to some stuff, but I barely play online and I try to minimise contact with people I'm not friends with.

PS+ is a good deal if you play your games on PlayStation. It's simple. It's a better deal than Xbox live.

Sure, Steam has it's seasonal sales and weekly deals, and they're great too, but I wouldn't say that they're objectively better than any other outlet. Think about how many people have enormous libraries of games on Steam that they've never played, because a publisher catalogue was 75% off and they went "OOH! I want those 2 games out of those 30! That's a bargain!" Only to have wasted £40?

Oh and a massive corporation has no personal feelings, I never implied it would. Your arguments are inconsistent: you keep flopping between hating PS+ for offering an incentive to subscribe in the form of early access and heavy discounts, then the moment it suits you you flop back over to saying that Sony is an evil corporation.

Are you by any chance one of the Master Race enthusiasts who thinks that the Steambox is a glorious saviour of gaming? Even though you yourself won't be able to justify spending £350 on it rather than spending £10 on an HDMI lead to reach your living room?

Because if you are that kind of blind Valve worshiper, I think we have absolutely nothing left to discuss. Good day sir.

Specifics. Banned from forum or banned from STEAM!

I doubt the latter as steam users flipped their shit when Origin began banning people from their origin games when they were banned from forums.

It's right and proper that a Forum excludes trouble-makers. No establishment has an obligation to host rabble-rousers.

the chat in games of TF2 or BC2 are frequently vile and unpleasant to read.

That is and properly should be left down to the server admins. NOT AT ALL should it be left down to a big corporation. The "people on the ground" are far more perceptive and suited to such things.

And I can get Infamous 2 for what, £25 on Amazon? I could get it free on PS+

No you don't.

You are worse than a damn commercial, at least they are obliged by trading standards to tell the truth.

You pay a subscription to rent the game. No THAT is a real rental, not this steam "herp a derp, it's a rental" system. You stop paying subscription, you lose that game from your "instant play".

Play.com sells it, your game to keep for £11.50

Yeah, I pay for the service, but like I said, I get enough back on it to cover the initial investment.

That's not free.

That's like saying netflix is free because you get enough back. As Moses said, Fifty bucks is fifty bucks, my friend.

I wouldn't say that they're objectively better than any other outlet.

What does denial prove?

You CANNOT COMPLAIN about having TOO MANY GAMES! You can't knock steam sales for being TOO GOOD!!!

Your arguments are inconsistent: you keep flopping between hating PS+ for offering an incentive to subscribe in the form of early access and heavy discounts, then the moment it suits you you flop back over to saying that Sony is an evil corporation.

WTF dude? That's clearly consistent disapproval of what Sony is doing. What the HELL are you writing. Stop and think!

Are you by any chance one of the Master Race enthusiasts who thinks that the Steambox is a glorious saviour of gaming?

You know it's really sad how clueless people took the "Master Race" joke as if it's something we seriously believe? It's so so desperate.

Why the hell would I plug my computer into a HDTV? A computer monitor offers far more quality for a lower price.

The only time I want to use a HDTV is in collective viewing, as then more people can be fit within a comfortable viewing angle and distance from the screen relative to screen size. For most of my games I don't give a crap about split screen multiplayer.

This obsession with HDTV's for individual viewing is dumb. You are just falling into marketing trying to sell you worthless excess.

Do NOT give me the fake excuse that you cannot focus on something 2 feet away from you. If that genuinely is your problem then the solution is not buying a huge $2000 HDTV and putting it 12 feet away, it is to go get your eyes examined. Seriously. No joke. You wouldn't even be able to read what I am writing right now. But most likely you are just falling for marketing BS that you "need" a big screen TV.

 

[Strazdas]

I think your missing the point here and trying to turn this thread on PS Plus into a (somewhat enraged) debate between the benefits of PCs over consoles. Sometimes people want to play on consoles, or just don't have the computer to play games on, so I think trying to compare Steam and PS Plus is a bit ridiculous. I have both -- a great gaming machine with Steam and a PS3 with a Plus subscription -- and I use them for different purposes. I love them both equally and I play different games on them. I don't think one is better than the other because, in all honesty, Steam is not the be-all-end-all to gaming in the least. It's done a lot of great things, yes, I won't argue that, but some things it just implemented (like being able to mod games and reselling some games). Also, if you get banned or Steam takes a disliking for you, I'm pretty sure you can't get your games back from them as your account is locked. So much for "owning" those Steam games, eh?

It's ok for people to like consoles. There also is no master race of gaming. Let people play how they want to, alright?

the point he was trying to make was that if you were to take all the money you spent on xbox+xbox games and turn it into cash, you can get a VERY powerful PC and same games and still have money left over. because games are cheaper.
yes, it is ok to like consoles, but that does not mean he gets the cheaper end of the bargain.

 

[Treblaine]

At this point, I really pay for xbox live because I'm too invested into the service. All my friends are playing xbox 360s and my entire gaming library is on the console. So i'm not too keen on paying the 200 bucks again to buy a ps3 on top of rebuilding a library and then paying for ps plus. That said, its anyone's game next cycle, as I have no intention of paying for gold if it plans to do the same thing it does for me now.

Sell them all and go to PC.

I think your missing the point here and trying to turn this thread on PS Plus into a (somewhat enraged) debate between the benefits of PCs over consoles. Sometimes people want to play on consoles, or just don't have the computer to play games on, so I think trying to compare Steam and PS Plus is a bit ridiculous. I have both -- a great gaming machine with Steam and a PS3 with a Plus subscription -- and I use them for different purposes. I love them both equally and I play different games on them. I don't think one is better than the other because, in all honesty, Steam is not the be-all-end-all to gaming in the least. It's done a lot of great things, yes, I won't argue that, but some things it just implemented (like being able to mod games and reselling some games). Also, if you get banned or Steam takes a disliking for you, I'm pretty sure you can't get your games back from them as your account is locked. So much for "owning" those Steam games, eh?

It's ok for people to like consoles. There also is no master race of gaming. Let people play how they want to, alright?

Back on topic....

Plus is a great service. I buy it mostly for cloud backups, which has saved me a few times over, automatic updates, and, of course, the freebies. With Vita being added to the list of the Instant Game Collection, you really do start to have a great gaming collection, and all for the cost of one new game. It doesn't matter to me that I'm "renting" the game from them, probably because I keep renewing or some of the games are hit and miss, because the games are just an extra. They aren't the main purpose of Plus for me.

Think about it for a minute: you buy a new PS3/Vita with a 3 month subscription to Plus on it. You don't even need games anymore to get started with your console! Just get it connected to the Internet, download, and play. What's not to like?

And Microsoft...I gave up on them when deciding between (yes, between) having a 360 or a PS3. I can't afford both. When I found out that you had to pay a premium for being online, not to mention not having a wireless card included, the 360 looked rather bland next to the PS3. Why should I have to pay more for an Internet connection I already have, Netflix I subscribed to, or being able to game online, something that's included in the original game's design?! I think if Microsoft doesn't fix this quick for the next gen, they'll be loosing out on a lot more than just a few million. It could mean the next console generation.

No no no no.

The title of this thread is:

[HEADING=2]PS+ humiliates the game industry[/HEADING]

Steam is part of the game industry.

The false dichotomy of "PlayStation versus Xbox" cannot go on. It's so transparently self serving.

Steam is not the be-all-end-all to gaming in the least.

Yes. Only because console manufacturers contrive or cajole console-exclusivity. What PC is lacking from console is nothing compared to what console is lacking from PC.

So much for "owning" those Steam games, eh?

I'm fed up of this nonsense. Sony had your PS3 by the balls, but Steam refuses to authenticate your games they are easy to crack, you still have full use of your computer, you can still go on the internet and you can still easily go to alternatives. This puts a huge incentive on Steam not tor ban people frivolously, like they can and DO get away with on consoles because they aren't handing them to their competitor who is only a mouse click away.

Plus is a great service. I buy it mostly for cloud backups, automatic updates

You know steam does that for free?

 

[aivalera]

My PC is terrible so I use my consoles more.

Anyway, free games and constant discounts = sign me up PS+.

Minor discounts and stuff I should already have = Not intrested Xbox Live Gold

 

[Tom_green_day]

Ugh 4 $ a month isn't much , people spend more than that in coffee in a day . Plus i find XbL has a better internet connection than PS3, so if i'm paying 4$ a month to have a better connection with online games , i'll gladly pay.

Ok, good for you. What you are really doing is paying that $4 a month to unlock features of games that you already paid for. For example, when you buy Black Ops 2 on the PS3 you get to play single player and multiplayer online with your $60, but if you buy the 360 version, you need to pay extra to play online.

Hate to break it to you but your internet connection has nothing to do with the consoles...

 

[Something Amyss]

Hate to break it to you but your internet connection has nothing to do with the consoles...

You quoted the wrong guy.

Anyway, HIS internet connection isn't the only factor.

Downloading from XBL tends to be faster than PSN.

 

[aaronobst]

I was skeptical about subscribing in the beginning but I decided to give it a shot, now nearly 3 years later I was surprised at how many free games I've downloaded. Also I use the cloud saving literally everytime I play.

 

[redknightalex]

the point he was trying to make was that if you were to take all the money you spent on xbox+xbox games and turn it into cash, you can get a VERY powerful PC and same games and still have money left over. because games are cheaper.
yes, it is ok to like consoles, but that does not mean he gets the cheaper end of the bargain.

The message got lost as I started to skim the longer messages, so my bad on not reading it all. I understand the point however I think the other point to be made is that many prefer the console experience to the PC experience, which is fine. I like both, and have played the same games on two platforms (PC and PS3) because I wanted to. I don't believe that either of them detracts from the other.

Also, some don't want to make, or go through the hassle of ordering, a good gaming PC, which typically is a non-mobile desktop. Not to mention keeping it up-to-date, drivers, patches, etc etc. Steam makes it easier but not seamless.

No no no no.

The title of this thread is:

[HEADING=2]PS+ humiliates the game industry[/HEADING]

Steam is part of the game industry.

The false dichotomy of "PlayStation versus Xbox" cannot go on. It's so transparently self serving.

Steam is not the be-all-end-all to gaming in the least.

Yes. Only because console manufacturers contrive or cajole console-exclusivity. What PC is lacking from console is nothing compared to what console is lacking from PC.

So much for "owning" those Steam games, eh?

I'm fed up of this nonsense. Sony had your PS3 by the balls, but Steam refuses to authenticate your games they are easy to crack, you still have full use of your computer, you can still go on the internet and you can still easily go to alternatives. This puts a huge incentive on Steam not tor ban people frivolously, like they can and DO get away with on consoles because they aren't handing them to their competitor who is only a mouse click away.

Plus is a great service. I buy it mostly for cloud backups, automatic updates

You know steam does that for free?

I understand that Steam is part of the video games industry but the topic of conversation, at least at the very beginning, was pointing out the flaws in Microsoft's system. It is sad that Steam doesn't get talked about as much as Sony or Microsoft but it is getting there. And I agree that consoles usually lack much of what the PC can offer. I'm not arguing those points with you, I'm agreeing. It's hard to try and make my point when the tone of your post is, from my POV, hostile.

All I'm trying to say, which may not be coming across, is that I believe PC and consoles serve very different audiences and that, while the Plus system is a paid service, it does do a lot of things right for a group of users who aren't used to the same perks PC users often enjoy. In fact, Steam could probably learn from them, particularly if they want to create their own console.

I also prefer to think that my PS3 doesn't have any balls (I name things after powerful women, tyvm), and I do know that Steam offers cloud saves for free. Plus doing this as part of its subscription model is a new idea in the console arena of games, not necessarily in the PC realm. Again, different target audiences.

 

[AT God]

Now that good PC's are only a few hundred dollars more than consoles I don't see why anyone still argues about Xbox Live fees. Now that almost all PC games use controller support it seems like anyone who wants to stick with Xbox should know that there are alternatives. Most of my friends have xbox's and some don't pay for Live and others know they are getting gouged and put up with it.

I do think subscription fees will either become mandatory or be abolished, Microsoft can't survive if it is the only one charging a fee, even if the new xbox is somehow rediculously better than all other options.

 

[tangoprime]

At this point, I really pay for xbox live because I'm too invested into the service. All my friends are playing xbox 360s and my entire gaming library is on the console. So i'm not too keen on paying the 200 bucks again to buy a ps3 on top of rebuilding a library and then paying for ps plus. That said, its anyone's game next cycle, as I have no intention of paying for gold if it plans to do the same thing it does for me now.

Sell them all and go to PC.

I think your missing the point here and trying to turn this thread on PS Plus into a (somewhat enraged) debate between the benefits of PCs over consoles. Sometimes people want to play on consoles, or just don't have the computer to play games on, so I think trying to compare Steam and PS Plus is a bit ridiculous. I have both -- a great gaming machine with Steam and a PS3 with a Plus subscription -- and I use them for different purposes. I love them both equally and I play different games on them. I don't think one is better than the other because, in all honesty, Steam is not the be-all-end-all to gaming in the least. It's done a lot of great things, yes, I won't argue that, but some things it just implemented (like being able to mod games and reselling some games). Also, if you get banned or Steam takes a disliking for you, I'm pretty sure you can't get your games back from them as your account is locked. So much for "owning" those Steam games, eh?

It's ok for people to like consoles. There also is no master race of gaming. Let people play how they want to, alright?

Back on topic....

Plus is a great service. I buy it mostly for cloud backups, which has saved me a few times over, automatic updates, and, of course, the freebies. With Vita being added to the list of the Instant Game Collection, you really do start to have a great gaming collection, and all for the cost of one new game. It doesn't matter to me that I'm "renting" the game from them, probably because I keep renewing or some of the games are hit and miss, because the games are just an extra. They aren't the main purpose of Plus for me.

Think about it for a minute: you buy a new PS3/Vita with a 3 month subscription to Plus on it. You don't even need games anymore to get started with your console! Just get it connected to the Internet, download, and play. What's not to like?

And Microsoft...I gave up on them when deciding between (yes, between) having a 360 or a PS3. I can't afford both. When I found out that you had to pay a premium for being online, not to mention not having a wireless card included, the 360 looked rather bland next to the PS3. Why should I have to pay more for an Internet connection I already have, Netflix I subscribed to, or being able to game online, something that's included in the original game's design?! I think if Microsoft doesn't fix this quick for the next gen, they'll be loosing out on a lot more than just a few million. It could mean the next console generation.

No no no no.

The title of this thread is:

[HEADING=2]PS+ humiliates the game industry[/HEADING]

Steam is part of the game industry.

The false dichotomy of "PlayStation versus Xbox" cannot go on. It's so transparently self serving.

Steam is not the be-all-end-all to gaming in the least.

Yes. Only because console manufacturers contrive or cajole console-exclusivity. What PC is lacking from console is nothing compared to what console is lacking from PC.

So much for "owning" those Steam games, eh?

I'm fed up of this nonsense. Sony had your PS3 by the balls, but Steam refuses to authenticate your games they are easy to crack, you still have full use of your computer, you can still go on the internet and you can still easily go to alternatives. This puts a huge incentive on Steam not tor ban people frivolously, like they can and DO get away with on consoles because they aren't handing them to their competitor who is only a mouse click away.

Plus is a great service. I buy it mostly for cloud backups, automatic updates

You know steam does that for free?

Seriously... some people just want to play on consoles, deal with it. Steam is great. I have steam, I use steam, its great. I also have a PS3, with PS+. It's a great service for consoles, and eclipses Live. I love the free stuff I get to play, hell, in some cases I play it for a while for free on the PS3, then go get it on sale for PC from steam when it's available. I also LOVE the cloud saves, which yes, steam does, but STEAM ISN'T ON MY PS3 IS IT?

Why are you turning this into a tired old "but PC is better" debate? (<- rhetorical) This is about an online service offered on console that puts other comparable services on consoles to shame. If all you're going to do is sit in the corner and shout that steam and PCs are better every few posts, seriously, what are you adding to the topic? Why don't you just go link this article and rant about it on steam forums or something?

 

[Epona]

Yes, Steam is great. Can we now talk about PS+ and Xbox Live Gold?

 

[Treblaine]

the point he was trying to make was that if you were to take all the money you spent on xbox+xbox games and turn it into cash, you can get a VERY powerful PC and same games and still have money left over. because games are cheaper.
yes, it is ok to like consoles, but that does not mean he gets the cheaper end of the bargain.

The message got lost as I started to skim the longer messages, so my bad on not reading it all. I understand the point however I think the other point to be made is that many prefer the console experience to the PC experience, which is fine. I like both, and have played the same games on two platforms (PC and PS3) because I wanted to. I don't believe that either of them detracts from the other.

Also, some don't want to make, or go through the hassle of ordering, a good gaming PC, which typically is a non-mobile desktop. Not to mention keeping it up-to-date, drivers, patches, etc etc. Steam makes it easier but not seamless.

No no no no.

The title of this thread is:

[HEADING=2]PS+ humiliates the game industry[/HEADING]

Steam is part of the game industry.

The false dichotomy of "PlayStation versus Xbox" cannot go on. It's so transparently self serving.

Steam is not the be-all-end-all to gaming in the least.

Yes. Only because console manufacturers contrive or cajole console-exclusivity. What PC is lacking from console is nothing compared to what console is lacking from PC.

So much for "owning" those Steam games, eh?

I'm fed up of this nonsense. Sony had your PS3 by the balls, but Steam refuses to authenticate your games they are easy to crack, you still have full use of your computer, you can still go on the internet and you can still easily go to alternatives. This puts a huge incentive on Steam not tor ban people frivolously, like they can and DO get away with on consoles because they aren't handing them to their competitor who is only a mouse click away.

Plus is a great service. I buy it mostly for cloud backups, automatic updates

You know steam does that for free?

I understand that Steam is part of the video games industry but the topic of conversation, at least at the very beginning, was pointing out the flaws in Microsoft's system. It is sad that Steam doesn't get talked about as much as Sony or Microsoft but it is getting there. And I agree that consoles usually lack much of what the PC can offer. I'm not arguing those points with you, I'm agreeing. It's hard to try and make my point when the tone of your post is, from my POV, hostile.

All I'm trying to say, which may not be coming across, is that I believe PC and consoles serve very different audiences and that, while the Plus system is a paid service, it does do a lot of things right for a group of users who aren't used to the same perks PC users often enjoy. In fact, Steam could probably learn from them, particularly if they want to create their own console.

I also prefer to think that my PS3 doesn't have any balls (I name things after powerful women, tyvm), and I do know that Steam offers cloud saves for free. Plus doing this as part of its subscription model is a new idea in the console arena of games, not necessarily in the PC realm. Again, different target audiences.

Excuse my faint hostility, I am human and what you say is irksome. If you think I'm going to be anything less than assertive and condemning then you are dead wrong.

I understand that Steam is part of the video games industry but the topic of conversation, at least at the very beginning, was pointing out the flaws in Microsoft's system.

There is no reason to limit it to that. WHY are you so resistant of having Steam be brought into comparison?

All I'm trying to say, which may not be coming across, is that I believe PC and consoles serve very different audiences

I hear this argument so often but without explanation, it seems to be just arbitrary or based on frankly - ignorant - assumptions of PC gaming.

PC gamers are more than willing to try console and give it fair comparison, but console gamers refuse to give the same consideration to PC.

SO MANY GAMES are co-released on consoles and PC, how can anyone make the serious argument that they are for fundamentally different audiences?

while the Plus system is a paid service, it does do a lot of things right

What pisses me off is you go on about that but reject PC services that offer the same for free. Acknowledge but reject them.

In fact, Steam could probably learn from them

Other than exploiting their users, precisely what? You are again conveniently vague, you can see why these kind of weasel words peeve people off.

Plus doing this as part of its subscription model is a new idea in the console arena of games

That's such a duplicitous and shilling way of describing this blatant exploitation a "new idea". It is not a "new idea" to charge for what your competition did BEFORE you and did FOR FREE! Putting things behind pay-walls and subscriptions CANNOT be passed off as ingenuity from a consumer perspective.

Are you talking from a consumer perspective? Or are you only interested in inflating Sony's income so they can fritter away more millions suing their own mascot?

It's a "new idea" to start spying on their users in the living rooms, by secretly turning on their web cam, that doesn't make it a good idea.

 

[Treblaine]

Seriously... some people just want to play on consoles, deal with it. Steam is great. I have steam, I use steam, its great. I also have a PS3, with PS+. It's a great service for consoles, and eclipses Live. I love the free stuff I get to play, hell, in some cases I play it for a while for free on the PS3, then go get it on sale for PC from steam when it's available. I also LOVE the cloud saves, which yes, steam does, but STEAM ISN'T ON MY PS3 IS IT?

Why are you turning this into a tired old "but PC is better" debate? (<- rhetorical) This is about an online service offered on console that puts other comparable services on consoles to shame. If all you're going to do is sit in the corner and shout that steam and PCs are better every few posts, seriously, what are you adding to the topic? Why don't you just go link this article and rant about it on steam forums or something?

Seriously... some people just want to play on Xbox, deal with it.

See, it doesn't work for that either.

You can't just arbitrarily exclude PC from any comparison. This is about how PS+ is the best thing in the industry, well what the hell about Steam??!?

I love the free stuff

How can we have any worth while discussion with endless falsehoods like this. I don't know if you are ignorant, confused or deceptive, but you cannot describe the product of paying $50 subscription "free". You might be able to push it with the term "gratis" but it is NOT free.

but STEAM ISN'T ON MY PS3 IS IT?

What utterly disingenuous circular logic. So PS3 could have the WORST SERVICE EVER and it wouldn't matter how amazing anything else is because "well I've got a PS3". What's the point in PlayStation Plus apparently humiliating the entire industry if all competition was going to be ignored anyway as Sony excludes Steam setting up a store, network and services on their Consoles??!?

Why are you turning this into a tired old "but PC is better" debate?

Because PS+ was claimed to humiliate the entire games industry. Steam is part of the games industry.

The debate will go on because those arguing in the negative keep running away from any sort of conclusion, they just fall back on "oooh, but I am just prefer consoles" and "oooh, consoles and PC should be considered separate" they are IN A DISCUSSION FORUM and the refuse to actually DISCUSS it.

If all you're going to do is sit in the corner and shout that steam and PCs are better every few posts, seriously, what are you adding to the topic?

That this Xbox vs Playstation is not a consumer focused, this is a dumb console war, a "which side are you on" rather than "What's best for the consumer".

It's a fallacy, a false dichotomy.

This thread topic is very clear, this is not "PS+ humiliates Xbox Live" it is "PS+ humiliates game industry".

You are the one ranting about Steam daring to be raised as a part of the games industry.

 

[rocketdive2001]

PS+ is actually quite worth the money but that is only if you are in other regions than Asia (Japan doesn't count - they have a truck load of contents) ... i'm willing to actually invest in a PS+ with either the UK or US just to download the freebies and discounted games they have - especially during festive periods where more stuff get thrown out for subscribers. That's a really awesome way to keep players happier, since they already have multiplayer function right out of the box without additional cost.

Xbox360? To date, i've only played online 2 times - when they have a Gold weekend which everyone becomes a gold member and frankly, it's a real money sucking scheme to players out there.

I can't really defend their system compared to Sony's system; gotta also love the amount of free themes given out by the PSN as compared to Microsoft ... their free themes are still stuck in a limbo - i just use it to play my games and hardly shop on XBL for anything ... but PSN is a treat whenever i am free to log in; sure keeps me happy!

 

[redknightalex]

Excuse my faint hostility, I am human and what you say is irksome. If you think I'm going to be anything less than assertive and condemning then you are dead wrong.

I understand that Steam is part of the video games industry but the topic of conversation, at least at the very beginning, was pointing out the flaws in Microsoft's system.

There is no reason to limit it to that. WHY are you so resistant of having Steam be brought into comparison?

All I'm trying to say, which may not be coming across, is that I believe PC and consoles serve very different audiences

I hear this argument so often but without explanation, it seems to be just arbitrary or based on frankly - ignorant - assumptions of PC gaming.

PC gamers are more than willing to try console and give it fair comparison, but console gamers refuse to give the same consideration to PC.

SO MANY GAMES are co-released on consoles and PC, how can anyone make the serious argument that they are for fundamentally different audiences?

while the Plus system is a paid service, it does do a lot of things right

What pisses me off is you go on about that but reject PC services that offer the same for free. Acknowledge but reject them.

In fact, Steam could probably learn from them

Other than exploiting their users, precisely what? You are again conveniently vague, you can see why these kind of weasel words peeve people off.

Plus doing this as part of its subscription model is a new idea in the console arena of games

That's such a duplicitous and shilling way of describing this blatant exploitation a "new idea". It is not a "new idea" to charge for what your competition did BEFORE you and did FOR FREE! Putting things behind pay-walls and subscriptions CANNOT be passed off as ingenuity from a consumer perspective.

Are you talking from a consumer perspective? Or are you only interested in inflating Sony's income so they can fritter away more millions suing their own mascot?

It's a "new idea" to start spying on their users in the living rooms, by secretly turning on their web cam, that doesn't make it a good idea.

I don't excuse "faint hostility" as it creates a discussion more focused upon personal emotions and less on reasonable arguments, so I'd rather just say a few things and be done with it. You can be assertive without being hostile.

First of all, I'm a PC gamer before I'm anything else. I was brought up on PCs, I build them, I fix them, I'm studying Networking, and I LOVE them. I love what they offer as a whole. All of it. For the record, I have 155 Steam games, two Origin games, and a couple dozen other, non-Steam games installed on my computer on a 500GB HD (with some files stored on my third, 1TB HD). My PlayStation total doesn't come anywhere near that.

I do love my consoles and have from when I got a GameBoy for my birthday when I was twelve or so. I play different games on my PC than I do on my console. I like my strategy games and shooter-based ones to be on the PC. I also like moddable games, like the Elder Scrolls series, to be on my PC. Adventure based games or console-exclusives I prefer to play on the console of my choice. Perhaps it's not rational, it's a hobby with obviously high emotions, so being irrational about playing this game on what seems fair to me. Furthermore, how I want to play a game, whether it be on console or on a PC, is hardly any of your concern. But the disparity between PC game sales and those of the console does suggest that there are two audiences here. I mean, people like to make a point about what type of gamer they are! Are you PC or Xbox/PlayStation? I like to say I'm both, along with many, and still I hear others say the only run PS3/360/Wii/PC. Publishers are making a distinction, we're making the distinction, so why are we trying to say we're all the same when the differences are obvious? PCs take a lot of work to keep going when consoles require very little, thus different audiences.

I also know that I can very well plug in a controller and use my PC for such games, except there are days I'd rather play a grand adventure game from my couch using my console. Also, some console ports are just bad and not worth the effort of trying to make it function on a PC. That's not my fault but the fault of the developers. So your implication that I'm a console gamer is not based on anything that I've said but rather an assumption on your own views of who people are.

That being said, I am not trying to limit the discussion to Sony and Microsoft while leaving Steam out of it. I continually brought up Steam in my posts and made an observation based on the two consoles brought to the forefront at the beginning of the thread. Also, we're leaving out the WiiU, the first of the next generation consoles, yet you seem to forget that as well.

As for what Steam could learn from Plus is easy: why not try a subscription like Plus? Steam could easily do the same thing, albeit with some DRM in place, where you could play games for free while your subscription is still active. Steam does not do this at the moment; it's main allure are its sales. I'm hard-pressed to see how it's exploiting the user base when, not only do people like a service like Plus, but also is a demand by the user base (in Plus' case). If Steam implemented something like this, with perhaps some other perk (or two), I'd be right on board with it.

Anyway, I'll say it again: Steam is great and innovative. PS Plus is great and innovative for different reasons. I love both and use both.

 

[Zeckt]

Really? I got 90 days of PS+ and what did I get for free? Uncharted Golden Abyss, Gravity Rush, Chronovolt, Mutant Blobs, Mortal Kombat, Jet Set Radio and several PSP games for nothing, this Vita is paying for itself!

So yeah, PS+ has worked exceedingly well for me, that 32GB memory card my sis got for me has been a god send, so far, the deals I am getting with PS+ have been wonderful.

So PS+ is fantastic in my book, best 15 euro I ever spent!

WHAT? Holy crap, I think you just inspired me to buy a vita in the near future if sony is that good to the vita owners. And it comes with a 3 month of plus for free too?! Okay, I'll buy one after I finish fire emblem and Pokemon Conquest on my 3ds.

 

[Zeckt]

That's fine, I'm fully aware of the vita memory card problem. But that's not a problem if I get Gravity Rush for free. How long does that deal last? I would really like to know how long I have in all honesty.