Jimquisition: A Different Kind of Difficulty

[Kahunaburger]

Wow, a jimquisition episode I didn't hate? Maybe I'm going soft. I do like how this actually does a pretty good job of addressing the difficulty issue. Of course, the other half is

Spoiler: this

The people who complain about games getting too easy mean that ALL games have gotten too easy and that the "hardest" difficulty settings for games where the point is still getting to the end of a level without dying have become fucking jokes.

So this entire episode was basically a gigantic straw-man argument.

Bravo i say.

so I don't think this episode was all that good. But it didn't make me facepalm, and that's something.

(Of course, I find it hard to blame devs for making their games easier. Look at the response to DA:O - some people actually found that game too hard on normal difficulty for some unfathomable reason, and weren't able to complete the game because they didn't want to bruise their egos by setting to to easy. Of course, the solution to that is to make "normal" easy, and to add a bunch of difficulty settings above that, but it's actually hard to make a game with scaling difficulty, so it's not exactly hard to understand why they design games the way they do.)

 

[ProjectTrinity]

I actually like this argument Jim brought up, though I have a little different of an opinion on that:

A game that can integrate tension and death as well as "the being careful with mastering a level" Epic Yarn does is a game on the right tracks. And dare I say, there are a *lot* of games that does just that. The main problem is that there tends to be other platformers that offers the same thing Epic Yarn offers with its brand of "difficulty", except, with well, death and more reflex-induced situations.

Also: Lack of insults noticed. D:

 

[bootz]

I've played kirby's epic yarn and got the gold medal on every level but one on the first try.
I wasn't even trying to I was just trying not to get hit.
It wasn't hard.
ALso if you find 3 stars in the level you can pretty much suck and lose your stuff and still get a medal.


Super mario wii was way harder. I had to work harder to get the All the coins.
Mega man was way harder.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

And congratulations Jim, you have COMPLETELY missed the point of the people who complain about games being too easy today.

Of course Kirby's Epic Yarn is easy, Kirby games have ALWAYS been easy, and it goes beyond saying that the point of Epic Yarn isn't the same as the point of fucking Ninja Gaiden.

The people who complain about games getting too easy mean that ALL games have gotten too easy and that the "hardest" difficulty settings for games where the point is still getting to the end of a level without dying have become fucking jokes.

So this entire episode was basically a gigantic straw-man argument.

Bravo i say.

My problem with that is it appears that hardcore gamers suffer from sadomasicism. They can only enjoy a game if it spanks them hard enough.

And what do they want devs to do? Make a game almost imposible to beat?

OT: Bravo I say, Jim. But you're not black.

 

[Kasper Gundersen]

You tried being street Jim, you really tried. Granted it didn't work, but you tried, and that's the most important thing XD

 

[Swifteye]

All this difficulty talk really eludes me more or less. Usually when I'm having fun playing a game there's something to do and that thing that needs to be done requires a certain amount of skill. A well made game will let you in easy and then it will create more obstacles or generate different things to keep you entertained via variety or indeed making the situation more tense by making it harder to survive a situation or encourage a methodical approach. Getting a 100 percent in games is really hard though but it's more optional but seeing as a lot of kids on little big planet make levels where all you do is grab a bunch of prize bubbles and nothing else I might consider the temptation to do a 100 percent as a variable level of difficulty to apply to a game.

Also as an African American I am mildly amused by your opening although it was random and had nothing to do with anything.

 

[Akytalusia]

while i agree with him, it's hardly a revelation. you just described the completionist state of mind. and we've been around since the begining...

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

Well, I quite liked this episode but then again I like anything which sticks it to overly nostalgic 'hardcore' gamers. You know, the ones who will name three excellent old games that came out about five years apart from each other and declare that this indicates the declining quality of games.

Jim said "homos" instead of "homies".

 

[Arluza]

I had thought of something like that before, but I wasn't really sure how to word it. Thanks Jim for a very useful episode. Hell, this is a topic that the Extra Credits guys could have handled as well. Might be interesting for Jim and the cast of EC to talk about this topic.

 

[IzisviAziria]

I get what he's saying, and agree to an extent, but Ninja Gaiden was a bad example. Ninja Gaiden had the exact same sort of difficuty he's talking about, in addition to traditional (and brutal) death-type difficulty. It still kept track of score, there was still hidden stuff to find, there was still incentive to be thorough and skillful.

 

[UbarElite]

Quite insightful. This idea of "optional difficulty" might actually be a good solution to the difficulty problem in a better way than a difficulty selection would (at least for some kinds of games). In this way, harder challenges can still be overcome, even if you don't overcome them with the same amount of gems. This might be better than a game in which you select hard mode, and suddenly find yourself in a level with truly monstrous difficulty compared to the other levels; you can still beat it under Kirby's system.

Nice episode as always.

 

[jokulhaups]

Have a nice poo Jim. life is too short to only have bad poos. How do you define a good poo though? Would it be one you can find more difficulty in than is immediately apparent?

 

[Something Amyss]

But...I weigh my existence against the fact I can actually get to the end of games in one life?

Mind=Blown.

...Kidding....Don't flame.

 

[newdarkcloud]

This episode reminded me of the first Crash Bandicoot. While getting through the game can be a little tough at times, but the real challenge came from getting all the gems because you had to get all the boxes in a level without dying once. This made what was once a very simple level much, much harder. It not quite what you meant, but it does have a slight bit of relevancy to the topic.

 

[pluizig]

This 'optional difficulty' has been around as long as video games have been. It used to be called 'high scores.'

 

[MB202]

Personally, I love Kirby's Epic Yarn, it's so adorable!

But yeah, there are parts of the game that made me swear like a sailor... Which I realize it pretty immature of me, but still, great point Jim!

 

[Kinpatsu]

You know, I surprised myself by watching his video this week... and liking it. The delivery of his argument this time around was much less grating. If he continues to make good arguments without talking down to us, I'll keep watching.

 

[AngelBlackChaos]

I think that developers have decided that doing optional difficulty things within a game expands it, making you gain more playable hours. Sure, you could easily breeze through a game, but add in hidden trophies, or attempting to finish at 100% completion, gives you more playtime without sacrificing casual players.

The thing is, back in the day, you could play games where death was a meaning, AND have hidden trophies, or find unlockable scene, or nearly kill yourself by trying to completely finish every side quest, every optional item, and gain 100%. That's something Jim didnt touch upon. Having a game that makes things challenging death wise, AND gives you an option for further difficulty, is what many hardcore gamers want. They want to feel like that achievement, is an actual achievement, not something that if they only try a smidge harder, they can gain. Beating those so called "impossible" or "hard" games, have rather meant something to gamers. Just by beating the game itself. Now, there are qualifiers, like "I beat Kirby's Epic Yarn 100%, every gold/platinum medal possible attained." Hardcore, as you called them Jim, want the basic storyline or goal in the game to be earned, not just practically spoonfed to them.

 

[Callate]

Uh, wow. He actually... Kept all the pseudo-offensive talking-to-the-camera schtick bookended on the beginning and end, and focused on the commentary.

If I say, "Thank you", is he honor-bound to never do it again? Because that would seriously be a pity. I like this a lot better.

On the issue itself, I largely agree. More to the point, I find it more than a little ridiculous how much some people rag on Epic Yarn like it was the spearhead of a movement that intends to take away their precious "getting killed every seven and a half minutes" forever. Spending less time looking at the reload screen is a good thing, and damn anyone who says otherwise. Games should be focusing on creating compelling content throughout the play-time, not making the player retread the same unforgiving segment twenty times over.

Now to be clear, traditional death is okay, I don't see it going anywhere, and I don't mind when it occurs in a stable and reasonable difficulty curve that genuinely challenges the player and makes them come up with new ways of using old skills or turn their reasoning on how to overcome obstacles ninety degrees. This is part of the reason I feel games like Half-Life and Portal are as impressive as they are. The level of challenge is awesomely well tuned to genuinely challenge without excessively frustrating- or, to put it more succinctly, without wasting the player's time.

I'll grant that as I get older my patience for wasting my time without giving me something meaningful in return is eroding. No one is required to play KEY. But if its difficulty is what's giving someone fits, I'm increasingly inclined to suggest that's a problem with the gamer's view of things, not with the game's design.