Jimquisition: A Game By Any Other Name

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Hargrimm

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Jan 1, 2010
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I strongly disagree with you Jim.

The reason for that is, that I think making a spin-off does not give give you carte blanche to do anything you want to. Even if it is a spin-off, all that it means is, that it is not a part of the main series and possibly non canon, but still a part of the setting and some settings simply do not support certain genres.

For example, you could never convince me that an Street Fighter rts could work, because the setting simply doesn't have what an rts needs, that being some kind of different factions in conflict with one another on a big scale.
As a positive example where a spin-off works is Halo as an rts (Halo: Wars). The reason why it fits is that from the fps titles in the series, we know of this huge galactic conflict between these two civilisations, so a game taking place on a bigger scale like an rts makes sense.

On Silent Hill:
The reason why this spin-off doesn't work is that Silent Hill has always been about suspense and horror and the monsters you encounter were representations of the protagonists psychological issues. What makes them work as a horror game is their atmosphere and the gameplay reinforcing that atmosphere, such as managing limited resources and fighting monsters being more of a liability than advantageous. But in a dungeon crawler, to advance in the game you have to deliberately get into fights with many monsters and doing so rewards you with loot and experience. These two things, avoiding fights because they are dangerous and drain your resources and fighting monsters to get stronger, are diametrically opposed.
This undermines a fundamental aspect of what defines Silent Hill. If they had made a point and click adventure game instead, I would be more open to it, because the psychological and horror aspects are compatible with the core game mechanics.

This is same principle also applies to Syndicate.
The core of Syndicate was controlling a group of faceless and nameless agents to ensure the dominance of one of the many faceless megacorporations in the world. The setting itself is just generic cyberpunk.
Turning it into an fps simply doesn't work because it was defined by it's gameplay. If you take that away and turn it into a shooter, you just get generic cyberpunk shooter and not 'Syndicate', because Syndicate doesn't have anything else that makes it what it is.
 

Riobux

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Apr 15, 2009
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You see, I'd somewhat disagree. Silent Hill: Book Of Memories I'm very wary of because it's a Silent Hill game and everything past Silent Hill 4 has been mediocre at best. My biggest problem with Book Of Memories is it doesn't have the same feel, but I can get over it with no problem. However, the new Devil May Cry game? I'm not sure besides the core mechanic and core story what's connecting it to the original Devil May Cry games. If you're going to shove a name onto your series because you're connecting it some how, then fantastic. However, if you're putting the Devil May Cry name onto a game that seems to have a few cosmetic similarities and by just changing the name of the characters you can pretty much turn it into a new game, then this is what's called a cash-cow.
 

ThunderCavalier

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Nov 21, 2009
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I kinda agree with Jim's point that a game, a spin-off especially, shouldn't color people's expectations about a game. I honestly expect direct sequels of games to at least follow a format similar to that of its predecessor, and most franchises (Mario, Halo, CoD (sadly), Zelda, etc.) tend to do that, while spin-offs tend to be an experimentation or a kind of different take on the franchise, either with a different world or a different genre.

And sometimes it works. I honestly thought Halo Wars did pretty well and, while it may have been a shallow RTS, it was still an enjoyable play and there's still some iota of strategy with rushing and micromanagement with the 360 control. It's not Starcraft, obviously, but for what it was, it was pretty good, and I enjoyed it. I don't care for Silent Hill or DMC, so I don't care for the two games that Jim brought up, but from what I saw:

1) Book of Memories looks exactly like the definition spin-off: It takes the universe of the franchise but puts it under a different light, genre, or alternate reality, in this case being a genre. I don't get people's thoughts of a series being 'colored' by a spin-off, though. Did we honestly think Mario Party was going to forever change the core Mario franchise by inserting a minigame every five seconds in the main games?

2) I don't get the hate for the new DMC games. Sure, it's probably because I didn't play them and I don't care for art design all that much, but the protagonist in that game looked to be doing as wild and ridiculous of antics as the original Dante, so it's probably the art design and some fan reaction I wouldn't get because I'm not a fan. I won't judge; I'll just say that, from my perspective, it seems silly.

The only times when innovation leads to betrayal is when they deliberately change mechanics in the franchise's core games. Syndicate, for instance, radically switched genres when it showed no signs of being a spin-off, but to be fair, it was again EA, and I doubt anyone would've bought the game either as it turned out to be (mediocre FPS) or how it was before, since our market is pretty narrow-minded. As to the last point, while I was never a fan of the Dead Space games, Dead Space 3 gives me a bit of a bitter feeling because that's a franchise being deliberately tailored by marketing rather than the original intention of the game designers. Dead Space wasn't the best horror game ever, but I wouldn't want to see all of the charm that made it somewhat unique before sucked out of it. Even if the game was still good, it'll still feel wrong.
 

Khazoth

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Sep 4, 2008
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You know, I agreed with this, but then I saw a commercial for a certain video game.


If a game called 'Darksiders 2: Death Lives' doesn't suck, then I will die of shock. For cripes sake. What part of that name tells you that there is a chance that game will be anything but terrible.
 

Treblaine

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Jul 25, 2008
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Perfect example of this (though not a game the principal still applies):


Alien was a claustrophobic horror suspense film, but then along came Aliens approaching the exact same universe but in a totally different way and IT WAS AWESOME! It was perfect. It was an eternal classic. It was the original from which all tropes are wrought.

And it completely broke the rule that sequels had to follow the same tone as the prequel.
 

Magmarock

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Sep 1, 2011
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I played Ceysis 2 and didn't think it was as good as the first one. Crysis 3 looks a lot like Crysis 2, but my attitude is to wait till after it's out know for sure. Who knows, maybe it will be better then the first, only one way to fine out.
 

noreshadow

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Feb 5, 2009
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making changes to a game is one thing, and spin offs are fine if the main game persists.
but the disturbing trend of digging up long dead franchises(x-com,syndicate,ext) and stitching them together with an fps just doesn't make any sense.
God forbid they make a new IP.

It feels along the same lines as: "we know how much you loved your old dog, so we dug it up and stapled it to the move poster for the new twilight move clone, now don't you want to go see it?"
 

SageRuffin

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Dec 19, 2009
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As a semi-fan of DMC, I've fallen victim to this bit of prejudice. Dante has a set appearance, specific mannerisms, and so on. Further more, the new DmC attempted to rewrite Dante in such a way that not even Marvel or DC comics would have tried (or so I choose to believe). I'm sure it's been said before, and I'll add to it: this extended far beyond the man's hair color.

That said, I've seen some more footage, and DmC seems all right. I still think they shouldn't have named the character "Dante". If he had a different name, there probably wouldn't have been too many, if any, issues.

One last thing before I call it a night: yes, one shouldn't judge a book by its cover, but at the same time, first impressions are a ***** and a half.
 

Jennacide

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Dec 6, 2007
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Another great example of games bucking their heritage and being awesome is Lara Croft: Guardian of Light. Taking what was a series all about third person exploring that had lately just become exploiting Lara's sexuality, GoL decided "You know what, screw it. Let's not play up Lara's cup size, and let's make it a top down, twin stick shooter-platformer."

And it was FUCKING AWESOME.
 

AyaReiko

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Aug 9, 2008
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The counterpoint to this video is the concept of "In Name Only". There have been more than a few games (and other things) that were connected to a more popular series by only it's name. It's a cheap marketing tactic, but a tactic that works... sometimes.
 

Endocrom

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Apr 6, 2009
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Thank you for standing up for Banjo-Kazooie: N&B. IT'S LEGOS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!

A game I've wanted since I was 6 years old and dreamt of a block perepheral that plugged into the NES and somehow detected the other blocks connected to it to use in-game.
 

Ftaghn To You Too

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Nov 25, 2009
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I disagree, but my reasons have been explained much better by other posters. We get upset when the core of a game series is compromised, not when spinoffs are created. The exception to this (for me at least) is Silent Hill, since I just want them to stop beating up the dead horse in hopes of more money.
 
Sep 24, 2008
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I somewhat think the point is missed. Like the example given about 'what if Killzone was cell-shaded'. Yeah, it would be change of the aesthetic... but that's the aesthetic. Taking a franchise which it's only claim to fame is to be a survival horror... then take the way the survival horror... you are just left with a name and aesthetics.

In the Core, it's been about your personal nightmare or tragedy being twisted by the energy of Silent Hill. From missing daughters with horrible pasts, to Adventures in Wife Finding, to Said daughter trying to find out about her past, to Being trapped by one of the residents of Silent Hill... You had to find out what was happening and survive it alone. The creepiness factor is always amped up when it's about what will you do when the world has fallen around you.

Book of Memories's answer is 'Hey, call your friends and get Ki/Magic powers [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qW76u_IQTY#t=1m11s]' essentially.

And that... magic blast bothers me. I know, you get silly costumes and weapons at the end of the game sometimes, but you have to do specific things, and it's to amuse you after the horror is over. you are always supposed to be an average joe, you or me, against mysticism and eldritch horror that you simply can't be prepared for. Why are you able to channel magic all of a sudden?!

Anyway, the reason why this is so bothersome to me is that Silent Hill is one of the only games that the constant Sequels make sense. Because the only recurring character is the Energy of the Town and how it reaches out to others for whatever reason, OR how the decisions that made the town what it is has trickled down to effect the loved ones of those Decision Makers. You can get backstory, you can get more adventures, you can get people who just mistakenly went to where they weren't supposed and had to deal with their demons. It is the perfect machine to put new ideas in it and do character studies on the effects of pure Horror.

Again, we had The Willpower to Overcome Horrific Odds for someone you love. we had reconnecting with loved ones. We had finding out about your past. we had dealing with a situation that's thrust upon you for simply bad luck. We had delusion, we had coming to grips with your family's skeletons... It's a simple, beautiful machine that I feel is being bastardized because someone had an idea for a hack and slash but realize it's really niche genre. so they thought they'd combine that niche with the fervent fanboyism of us Silent Hill fans.

I'm glad we are speaking out.
 

LordFish

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May 29, 2012
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Great ending mate, very clever. Godwins law really does highlight the fact that the internet is moronic.

keep up the good work, always a fan.
 

pppppppppppppppppp

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Jun 23, 2011
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Stuff like this just goes back to fanboys thinking they're entitled to have their favorite franchises cater to them specifically.

Seriously, I just want to grab a giant megaphone and shout something like this: [HEADING=2]"Attention fanboys. Just because you're obsessed with a franchise doesn't make you any more valuable than other customers. You don't have the right to make everything the way you want it. You do however have the right to complain about trivial things on the internet, but it's a waste of time because everyone has better things to do than listen to your useless opinion."[/HEADING]

Does anyone have a megaphone I could borrow?