Jimquisition: A Game By Any Other Name

[Treblaine]

Taking what was a series all about third person exploring that had lately just become exploiting Lara's sexuality, GoL decided "You know what, screw it. Let's not play up Lara's cup size, and let's make it a top down, twin stick shooter-platformer."

I am amazed that people continue to say such mean spirited and untrue things about Lara Croft.

I wonder if people who say such thing have played any of the Tomb Raider games or if they are just regurgitating uninformed opinions. Exploiting her sexuality? Is this about the E3 2012 Tomb Raider trailer? Where Lara Croft gets molested at gun point then swiftly kicks the guy in the balls:

at 40 sec mark.

Oh wait, happened 12 years ago and no one gave a crap back then. That's because it was seen by people who weren't looking to misrepresent it.

I am FED UP TO THE BACK TEETH with fake controversies with video games, especially around Lara Croft who is a lightning rod for unsubstantiated attacks as all strong women in the media are. There is no problem at all with Lara's breast and I find the endless attention drawn to them more telling of the complainers than of Lara or the developers. The only problem is in the prejudiced mind of the viewers who will denigrate a woman for wearing a one piece swimming suit when it is perfectly suited to the extensive swimming Lara does.

Really, if a painter painted a popular beach would you attack the painter and call for his censorship because he drew a woman in a swimsuit rather than a full body covering burka?

I find this outrageous, Lara Croft doesn't even show any cleavage and people attack her as some sort of sexual exhibitionist.

James Bond, Duke Nukem, Solid Snake you name it, they can all be hyper sexual as long as they are male. But a woman has to go to unreasonable efforts to hide her sexuality. Lara never showed off her sexuality, she simply never pandered to conservatives by going to extra and inconveniencing effort to hide that she had breasts at all.

 

[AgentLampshade]

Insult Devil May Cry will ya? You've just lost a fan.

 

[Sotanaht]

A game in the main series like Dead space 3 genre switching is bad for the series. No, it doesn't diminish dead space 1 and 2, but it means that we will probably never get a proper dead space 3. Even if dead space 4 were to return to it's roots, you would be missing that chunk of the story that was mutilated in dead space 3. Spin offs can spin off, but you have to be careful about including a chunk of story (in anything even remotely continuous) that people who don't like the new direction wont have access to when they play a new installment of the main series. And that's not even to consider what a genre change does to the canon, I'm pretty much ignoring canon altogether and throwing the offending game into dis-continuity.

Also, if you are going to change the genre/aesthetic and basically everything that made the game what it was, why keep the settings and characters and NAME instead of just making your own? It's just shameless fan service. They are wasting effort trying to appeal to people who aren't going to like the game anyway, and are involving people who have no place BUT to complain in their fanbase. Yes it works from a marketing standpoint to make more money, but when the backlash hits they only have themselves to blame.

 

[Jennacide]

Taking what was a series all about third person exploring that had lately just become exploiting Lara's sexuality, GoL decided "You know what, screw it. Let's not play up Lara's cup size, and let's make it a top down, twin stick shooter-platformer."

I am amazed that people continue to say such mean spirited and untrue things about Lara Croft.

I wonder if people who say such thing have played any of the Tomb Raider games or if they are just regurgitating uninformed opinions. Exploiting her sexuality? Is this about the E3 2012 Tomb Raider trailer? Where Lara Croft gets molested at gun point then swiftly kicks the guy in the balls:

Uninformed because you say so? I've played the whole series. Are you going to try and deny that almost every CG animated cutscene in the games served no purpose other than to show off T&A? Or that the advertising of the games quickly turned into "Here's another sexy render of Lara!" How about taking it to the big screen and hiring on Angelina Jolie to sexualize it? Or the legion of models they've hired on. The first game was remembered for being a game. The rest, barring maybe Anniversary (which is sorta cheating) are remembered for the rest of the shit. Her character is remembered for her cup size, not her skill at traversing dangerous caves.

How is stating the truth of what the media industry, not just games industry, focused on mean spirited? And in no way are they untrue, a 30 second google search just for her name will prove every point I make. Additionally, I'm trying to rally for the actual GAMEPLAY aspects, as I clearly pointed out. Guardian of Light was awesome, not because it involved Lara, but because the gameplay was great.

 

[Treblaine]

Taking what was a series all about third person exploring that had lately just become exploiting Lara's sexuality, GoL decided "You know what, screw it. Let's not play up Lara's cup size, and let's make it a top down, twin stick shooter-platformer."

I am amazed that people continue to say such mean spirited and untrue things about Lara Croft.

I wonder if people who say such thing have played any of the Tomb Raider games or if they are just regurgitating uninformed opinions. Exploiting her sexuality? Is this about the E3 2012 Tomb Raider trailer? Where Lara Croft gets molested at gun point then swiftly kicks the guy in the balls:

Uninformed because you say so? I've played the whole series. Are you going to try and deny that almost every CG animated cutscene in the games served no purpose other than to show off T&A? Or that the advertising of the games quickly turned into "Here's another sexy render of Lara!" How about taking it to the big screen and hiring on Angelina Jolie to sexualize it? Or the legion of models they've hired on. The first game was remembered for being a game. The rest, barring maybe Anniversary (which is sorta cheating) are remembered for the rest of the shit. Her character is remembered for her cup size, not her skill at traversing dangerous caves.

How is stating the truth of what the media industry, not just games industry, focused on mean spirited? And in no way are they untrue, a 30 second google search just for her name will prove every point I make. Additionally, I'm trying to rally for the actual GAMEPLAY aspects, as I clearly pointed out. Guardian of Light was awesome, not because it involved Lara, but because the gameplay was great.

"Uninformed because you say so?"

I did ask IF they had or had not. But congratulations, you have demonstrated how willing you are to ignore what you read, no doubt you also ignore what you see, like what you see of Lara depicted in games and only consider what serves your conformational bias.

"Are you going to try and deny that almost every CG animated cutscene in the games served no purpose other than to show off T&A?"

Ooooh!! Will I DARE to deny this? Will I deny being a witch? A deny being a member or the communist party! Only a guilty person would deny, that's denialism. PAH! You're attempts at implying shameful voyeurism is quite McCarthian. I don't have to deny such accusations, YOU have to prove them and NO ONE has.

Do the Cutscenes NOT serve as fan service?

Yes

Yes

Yes!

And YES!

You can post the handful of the tame pics a few of the devs released as wallpapers if you like. Advertising has always used sex. Sex sells. You can't argue with marketing executives. I don't judge a game by some advertising for Tomb Raider 2 any more than I judge Team Fortress 2 by the rule 34 hentai of Heavy and Medic "charging". I judge it by the GAMES!

Angelina Jolie butchered Lara Croft just like Paul WS Anderson and Milla Jovovich butchered the Resident Evil series, just like Bob Hoskins fucked up the Mario Bros movie. NO ONE judges Super Mario Bros games by that shitty movie, why judge the Tomb Raider games by said movies?!? They didn't get Lara's character right in the slightest bit, Lara is not stoic with a heart of gold in touch with local customs, she is erudite and engaging but ultimately viscous and callous to her selfish ends, she repeatedly shows condescension towards local cultures except seeking personal bounty. Nothing like Jolie's Croft.

Croft is a modern equivalent of a selfish British Empire era explorer, less an archaeologist and more a plunderer and mercenary seeking adventure and spoils. Later games they softened her down too much, and constantly chatting with two annoying side kicks who were there just to exposit the game. BELUGH! Lara Croft is supposed to be a lone wolf, in Chronicles she was snarky and condescending to her tech helper who she accepted help from only as a necessity, as she should be to such an annoying personality. Lara was admirable for her rugged individualism out in the elements and against terrible odds, she rarely accepted any help. Only 5 people came to her funeral, two were her parents, and the other was the priest. She got on so badly with her childhood mentor they ended up trying to kill each other.

I find this really interesting as a female character, she is not a delicate rose, she goes after what she wants and doesn't suck up to get friends or get other people to do things for her. She is almost always armed with handguns and full auto weapons in complete contravention of the law.

"Her character is remembered for her cup size"

That's the problem of the prejudiced minds, not the game itself. Is that all YOU remember? What does that say about you? I couldn't say what her cup size was, or if they were larger or smaller than average. Lara IS such a strong character who never even showed her cleavage in any of her games, it like someone only remembering James Bond for his penis size, though you never see his penis.

WHO THE HELL has ever been asked to describe Lara Croft and only been able to describe her triangular breasts??!? What planet are you living on?

What you say is so mean spirited is because it is NOT TRUE. I have posted the cutscenes, there is absolutely NO SUBSTANCE to the claim their only purpose is for "T&A" or fanservice as it is known, no more than any game with a male protagonist in games.

WHO CARES about google?? How does that relate to GAME SERIES FIRST MADE IN THE 1990's!!! If somewhere in the results there is some rule-34 hentai if you disable safe-search, all that says is that the internet is sex obsessed... well No-Sh**-Sherlock, you get no award for pointing that out.

Oh yeah, google search "lara croft tomb raider game" with safe search on, the first result:

http://tomb-raider-anniversary.com/tomb-raider-anniversary-game/about/lara_croft_tomb_raider_anni.jpg

Yeah, because if a guy is looking for wank-maerial, they really like a woman showing no cleavage and pointing a gun at them.[/sarc] No, this is a power pose, this is about dominance and confidence, showing what a badass Lara Croft is.

But search "Raiden metal gear solid 2"

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/6279/414319-raiden1_super.jpg

See?

 

[Treblaine]

A game in the main series like Dead space 3 genre switching is bad for the series. No, it doesn't diminish dead space 1 and 2, but it means that we will probably never get a proper dead space 3.

Hang on a minute... it worked for the Alien franchise... until they tried to go back.

Alien was a slow burn suspenseful horror film, then the sequel came along, Aliens. That was a war film thriller with an alien and sci-fi twist, and it worked perfectly, it fitted in with an EXPANDED the lore.

I think it is a natural progression from "survival horror" to "action". Look, the first encounter with the horror of the series will be slow burn and suspenseful but on the second or third encounter you can't be the same nervous, inexperienced and overwhelmed individual... you've survived this before and had time to master this.

You're no longer jumping at shadows, unsure of what kind of creature you are fighting, you know what it is and you come prepared, but they are more of them and tougher in more extreme circumstances than ever.

You have no choice, you have to leave the world of Survival Horror as you've beat these monsters before and it's now about the terror of open combat. The only way you can return is to forfeit your character's experience and go against a completely different type of enemy that you're unfamiliar with and uncomfortable with. Something like that movie The Thing, where you have monsters who seem perfectly and indistinguishably human, till their face rips open and tries to eat you.

The problem is a team that might have been good at horror, won't be so good at creating really tense action set pieces. But I think the guys behind Dead Space would be better at action terror than suspense horror.

 

[Cavouku]

...Wait, wait, wait.
Now, I agree with what he said and all, it doesn't matter what you call it or what came before it, but...

I could swear that I was upset about companies using long-running franchise names as cheap advertising for a product that could legitimately start it's own IP, or otherwise be disconnected from a franchise that it's only tangentially related to. Not anything to do with the game not conforming to what I've expected out of the franchise, per se.

It's kinda like... Okay, there are these crackers I love called Veggie Thins. They're delicious, and are shaped with varying concave/convex sides, it's cute and I like to pair them together. They come in a couple different flavours, not many, but ehn. Now, if they want to try a different flavour with them, go right ahead. If they're going to change the shape on me, and maybe a new flavor, well, go right ahead. If they start a line of graham crackers that they're calling Veggie Thins, well now they're just trying to exploit my love of Veggie Thins to try a product that isn't Veggie Thins.

If they would've just asked me upright to try their graham crackers, that'd be fine, but nobody likes being exploited. It feels dirty. And while the cracker industry may not have the power of advertising to alert me that a company who has made delicious little crackers for me wants to experiment with a new type and is seeking an audience for them, I've seen the video game industry hit me with a commercial or two before.

I didn't avoid buying El Shaddai because it wasn't called "Angels of the Crisis 4: Story of Enoch", or some crap like that. I didn't buy it because... well, to be frankly honest, I didn't have the money when it came out, and it's been hiding on me when I did have money.

If they make an AssCreed spinoff where you help Chris Colombus out of a jam, true assassin style, that's fine. If you do it by playing a tetris-like minigame to earn him 'sailing points', you've lost me*.

*I have not played that particular AssCreed game, and have no idea if you actually play a tetris-like minigame to earns sailing points, but if you do, that's freaky, cause I just made it up off the top of my head, I swear.

 

[Arcane Azmadi]

Hmm. Agreeing with you about Devil May Cry, can NOT agree with you about Silent Hill: Book of Memories.

I can't see any reason to complain about DMC because it's still at least in the same genre as the original games, no matter what Dante looks like- it looks like it's going to recapture what actually made the series worthwhile in the first place.

Book of Memories on the other hand grinds my gears because it's basically NOT a Silent Hill game trying to cash in by taking the name and some of the monsters from Silent Hill and jamming them into a product which, let's be honest, has nothing to do with Silent Hill. In some cases this isn't so much a problem -Mario, for example, isn't restricted to platformers and hasn't been for decades now, which is why he has an entire line of sports games, RPGs and party games- but it doesn't work in others- Mario Kart is one thing, but who in their right mind would play Metroid Kart? Silent Hill is a HORROR series and making a team-based hack-and-slasher which rips off its name and creatures is just as absurd as trying to make a Silent Hill city simulator. Yes, the game MAY still be a good game, and I can recognise that (although I won't play it simply because I don't have and don't intend to get a Vita) but that doesn't mean I don't have the right to be offended at the shameless cashing in on the franchise name.

 

[Strain42]

Not gonna lie...I'm actually not a big Silent Hill fan (just not big on survival horror) but the bit of clips I saw in this video...

I'm actually gonna check this game out. I've always been interested in the SH universe, and this seems like one I might be able to invest myself in.

So yeah. Thanks, Jim. I'm going to look into this game a bit more. Maybe add a Vita game for me to look forward to besides Persona 4: Golden.

 

[Jennacide]

*snipped for rambling*

I would bother to argue your points, but I geniunely can't be bothered by reading the second paragraph and seeing how completely irrational and overboard you go. You are trying so very hard to project the fallacies of what the gaming community did to Lara's image onto me. Especially with the amusing line of "is that what YOU remember her for?" Of course not, as I'm not attracted to other women. I clearly stated I remembered the first game for it's gameplay, but I'm not naive enough to deny what her image became.

 

[Treblaine]

*snipped for rambling*

I would bother to argue your points, but I geniunely can't be bothered by reading the second paragraph and seeing how completely irrational and overboard you go. You are trying so very hard to project the fallacies of what the gaming community did to Lara's image onto me. Especially with the amusing line of "is that what YOU remember her for?" Of course not, as I'm not attracted to other women. I clearly stated I remembered the first game for it's gameplay, but I'm not naive enough to deny what her image became.

Ok, now you give one example of where I have actually been irrational.

I did not try particularly hard, it came naturally to show where the prejudices lie.

I am not saying you are attracted to other women, nor implied it. I ASKED if that was all you remember as You never actually said anything to the effect of "Everyone else remembered Lara for her cup size but I remember for the gameplay" you said precisely this:

The first game was remembered for being a game. The rest... are remembered for the rest of the shit. Her character is remembered for her cup size, not her skill at traversing dangerous caves.

That blanket allegation includes me as well as YOU. That is insulting to me and every Tomb Raider fan, and your indignation at being asked by me to clarify your stance on this is hypocritical. I don't know where you get the idea of saying that just as a general claim. But now you claim that you don't remember Lara's breasts mainly but remember for the gameplay, yet you can speak for EVERYONE ELSE before you speak for yourself? You are so indignant at the very same salacious implication I ASKED if you held after what you said, while you made a hugely sweeping ACCUSATIONS that everyone ELSE who played Tomb Raider games only remembers her breast.

See, I don't like you speaking for ME, I played those games and I remembered more than the gameplay that while stiff really make you think in three dimension more than many modern games (rather than wall shuffling traversing of later) and for the characters, even if hammy I loved them, especially for what unique a character like Lara was.

But why do you talk so much about Lara Croft's breasts when clearly the games don't focus on them? You can look though all the cutscenes in my previous post for you to refresh your memory, the in game animation plants the camera rigidly behind Lara throughout. This focus on her breasts is bordering on obsession but don't mistake that for an accusation of sexual desire, it can equally come from misguided paranoia of MALE sexuality. You are obsessed with how men might view Lara Croft and utterly dismissive of how her fans might like her for reasons other than sex.

"I'm not naive enough to deny what her image became."

Nice fallacious association, her image may have been misused but to pin that entirely on a few fan-service wallpapers in the mid 90's is totally out of proportion. Rule 34 is a very real phenomenon on the internet, if there is a character, there is a porn version of it, you can't stop people making sexy fan art. But this is not from the video game industry, this is entirely on a porn websites.

The Tomb Raider publishers have consistently run cease and deists on nude patches for Lara croft and there are nude patches for so many games, there is even nude patches for most of the male cast of Team Fortress 2. Rule 34 again. NOT misogyny in the video games industry.

I mean why do you think all the so-called "Lara Croft imitators" failed in making crap games with hyper-sexual leads? Because they were outside observers who ignorantly assumed that it was just Lara being sexy. And look at what has taken Tomb Raider's place as adventuring action raiding-of-tombs game: Uncharted, with an attractive and charming but not sexually appealing to straight male gamers lead.

 

[Undeadpool]

That quote from Devil May Cry REALLY hammers home that "emo" has just become geekspeak for "I DON'T LIKE IT AND I'M NOT CLEVER ENOUGH TO SAY WHY!!!!" cause seriously? "I should have been the one to fill you dark soul with LIIIIIIIIGHT"?? THAT'S perfectly fine, but OH GOD! HE'S GOT BLACK HAIR AND IT'S A LITTLE IN HIS EYES! SOOOOO EMO!!!!

 

[Deadagent]

How about taking it to the big screen and hiring on Angelina Jolie to sexualize it? Or the legion of models they've hired on.

So hiring attractive people to play or model Lara is somehow offensive?
Why exactly?
Is the exsistence of these people offensive to you?
Would it have been much better if they hired someone who had more fat of her body?
Hell, would it make any sense if person that so athletic to be fat?

And yea I know most professional athletes dont have a rack like that either but suspension of disbelief can go that far for most people, fat person however would be questionable.

I would bother to argue your points, but I geniunely can't be bothered by reading the second paragraph and seeing how completely irrational and overboard you go.

Wow, even when faced with pretty damn solid evidence you're still in perfect denial. You're a real piece of work. I think I found some real great friends for you

Spoiler

You are trying so very hard to project the fallacies of what the gaming community did to Lara's image onto me.

So posting the actual cutscenes as evidence is a fallacy? Really? Also the gaming commumity didn't do jack to Lara's image, the marketing department of Eidos and Core did (Im ignoring rule 34 for obvious reasons). And even that didnt affect the gameplay or cutscenes of the games. Only thing that the gaming community has any hand on in terms of Laras image, is the nude raider patch and you know what happended to the people who made that patch? They got sued by Eidos [http://pc.ign.com/articles/067/067427p1.html].

Especially with the amusing line of "is that what YOU remember her for?" Of course not, as I'm not attracted to other women.

That's not what he meant. He meant that the way you ramble about the obectification of Lara, the more it seems like that is the only thing you remember from the game.

I clearly stated I remembered the first game for it's gameplay, but I'm not naive enough to deny what her image became.

How can you say you remember only the first game for it's gameplay when the gameplay in these games is virtually identical. It can't be the cutscenes since as demonstrated on Treblaines posts, they were not focusing on her body parts or sex appeal, unless you think the mere existence of these bodyparts on the character model is somehow wrong.

 

[Justin1221]

Jimmy , I fucking hate the intro song , please change it

But then he's gonna change it, and then you're gonna be like "he changed it, now it sucks."

 

[Balkan]

Jimmy , I fucking hate the intro song , please change it

But then he's gonna change it, and then you're gonna be like "he changed it, now it sucks."

Im not such a ***** . I actually like the tune , but the lyrics are so loud that I must turn down my volume , then jim starts talking and I cant hear him .He can just remove the lyrics and Ill be happy . Not that he will do it just for me , but it whould be nice if more people wanted the lyrics gone .

 

[The_Lost_King]

I would love to agree with you Jimmy boy but if I did I would be a hypocrite, I think. Dragon Age 2. Now I don't hate it, for a time I seethed with rage at it until I looked at it in a different light. I looked at it as a game let's call it God of war Effect: Thedas Edition. I found that GoWE:TE wasn't horrible just mediocre. When I look at it as a Dragon age game and weep(figuratively) because of how painfully mediocre it is. Bioware isn't mediocre, Dargon Age isn't Mediocre. Bioware is Fantastic and Dragon Age is epic.
TL;DR: I want to agree with Jim but think it would be Hypocritical of me.

 

[MercurySteam]

I think the Dead Space analogy depicts this the best. Gamers want more of what they loved from previous games and its no secret that Visceral has been getting further and further away from their original formula, that said, DS2 was still a good game and while DS3 is looking more action over actual horror than ever, I still think it would be worth giving them a go because I loved the last two games and the third still looks like it could do the series some credit.

So no, I won't be getting more of the jump scares in space like I did from the last two games but here's hoping the next game is a least as good as the last.

 

[Strazdas]

A good game is going to be a good game, a bad game is going to be a bad game, no matter the title. What i got problem with, is taking a title and putting it on a game which has nothing to do with the universe the title originated. I though fallout was a great way to continue franchise. But there are times when they just put the name and then create a totaly different game (like all those racing games of superheroes lol).

 

[glorious mongoose]

I agree with everything our mighty overlord said. BUUUUUUT I didn't like fallout 3 cause it had a poo story that butt-fucked the cannon and had no likable characters and the story was the first two games frankensteined together. New Vegas on the other hand ooooooo mamma