Jimquisition: Let's End the FPS Sausage-fest

[V TheSystem V]

I agree with the whole video - women aren't in as many FPSes as they should be. Valve has made a whole franchise (albeit with only 2 games in it if you don't count Still Alive), first person, with a female protagonist. Surely another company could do the same?

Also, there is ONE female character in the Modern Warfare franchise if I'm not mistaken. She's the soldier you have to rescue from the downed helicopter on the Shock and Awe level of Call of Duty 4. Seriously, that's the only role females have? To be rescued? It's as if Infinity Ward though 'I know what we can do! Show that women are defenceless when not making sandwiches!' or something. That game had a huge budget...so where were all the ladies?!

 

[Jimothy Sterling]

To be fair to MW,BF and MOH most Western Special Forces unit's don't allow women to try out, outside of Delta Force's "Funny Platoon" and some British Intelligence unit's. Also how it is that Halo: Reach (Kat, Six can be female) is the most gender equal FPS I can think of?

My original draft of the video addressed this a lot more but I toned down the realism argument, but to address it here, although women aren't officially considered for infantry and other roles (though new roles are opening up all the time), that hasn't stopped women being engaged in combat, or dying just as readily as men. Especially in the case of games like MW3 and BO2, where wars are being fought on US soil, it is logical to surmise that women would be most likely called upon to defend territory.

In a recent suit filed to ask for more opportunities for women, it's also been argued that women, while not "assigned" to combat units, have been "attached" to them, something the suit argues contains "no practical difference."

So yeah, opportunities for women in the US military are definitely more limited, but there is enough precedent to realistically portray them fighting in online multiplayer modes.

 

[Undeadpool]

Mass Effect 3's multiplayer is chock full of female and male avatars of varying shapes and sizes. So yeah, that along with all the other examples brought up really shines a light on this not being an issue of "balance," or "cost," or even "misogyny," but just flat-out laziness.

 

[GloatingSwine]

The "female character is smaller" did actually happen in Rainbow Six Vegas, where a male character stuck very slightly out of cover sometimes and a female character didn't.

I don't think that other games have had the same thing though. In Halo 3 for instance it just changed your voice set. Reach you were slightly thinner but there was no change in hitbox.

 

[Jimothy Sterling]

I would like to point out another balance issue with models of both sexes.
Classes.
Now, imagine you are playing TF2 and you see a glimpse of a character model, as pointed out by valve in its commentary, character models in the game are modeled so you can instantly know the players class from its silhouette.Having female versions would screw that up completely.
Your mind is constantly trying to tie character models with classes.

Even if you pass that issue, society still thinks women are the weaker/more kind side of gender.Which would trick the player into thinking that the female models are non-hostiles.

Other than that, i completely agree.

There is nothing stopping the classes themselves being bound by gender, though. Any one of TF2's classes could have been a woman by default, hence keeping the model distinctive.

 

[Terminate421]

You forgot Halo! Look at the difference between Spartans!

Female:

Male:

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

Jim, I will pay you ALL of the money to never dress like a lady again.

ALL of it.

 

[Terminate421]

Mass Effect 3's multiplayer is chock full of female and male avatars of varying shapes and sizes. So yeah, that along with all the other examples brought up really shines a light on this not being an issue of "balance," or "cost," or even "misogyny," but just flat-out laziness.

The problem with that argument is the Mass Effect 3 is not competitive, when AI shoot at you, they're bound to hit about every single bullet. (Auto aim). Females and Males don't matter at all, in a precision human vs. human based shooter like Call of Duty, it would.

The best argument at all is for something like Halo: Reach or even Lost Planet 2. Hell, I remember that Aliens vs. Predator had a female marine option available to those who earned it.

 

[ex275w]

I would like to point out another balance issue with models of both sexes.
Classes.
Now, imagine you are playing TF2 and you see a glimpse of a character model, as pointed out by valve in its commentary, character models in the game are modeled so you can instantly know the players class from its silhouette.Having female versions would screw that up completely.
Your mind is constantly trying to tie character models with classes.

Even if you pass that issue, society still thinks women are the weaker/more kind side of gender.Which would trick the player into thinking that the female models are non-hostiles.

Other than that, i completely agree.

This is still easily solved, have some of the classes in the game be always female, giving you more sillouhettes. You can also have the female sillouhette be almost identical to the male one.

Your second doubt is just not true, plenty of female opponents in games are the most dangerous. (Mass Effect 3 with the Phantoms and Banshees) Besides enemies in FPS games wear lots of clothes and are fought at a distance and as Jim said, he rarely recognized when he killed a man or a woman.

 

[Scrustle]

The arguments people use to justify not having female characters in games are so flimsy, and none of them really have anything to do with women specifically. All the arguments they use could be used to make an all-female filled game.

Actually, that would be really interesting to see. Unless it's something like DoA. I mean a game like an FPS (something typically male and "gritty" or "badass") except everyone is a woman, and not sexualised. Maybe there could be some plot about some future virus that latches on to the Y chromosome and completely debilitates the carrier, thus forcing females to fill all roles of society. The plot could be focused around trying to find a cure. That could be really interesting.

Oh and Jim, you look so sexy. Just like in my dream last night.

 

[dantoddd]

Why is it a thing that women have to be petite and short?
They have body sizes that differ as much as men do, sure they have less natural muscle than men do, but that doesn't mean they all have the physique of a 16 year old with two watermelons duct taped to them.

This is because that's apparently how we, men, want women to look like.

We need more than women in games we need some cool female lead characters. real female characters not caricatures. Although i see no reason why there aren't female characters in MP FPS games.

 

[Vampire cat]

I do feel that more games could give this option oh so easily... Certain games even have female models already, but for some reason dont use them! I think what some may be forgetting is that we're not looking for a vastly diferent model here. Just some slightly feminine features in the same combat gear with a female voice to add to the immersion. It's pretty damn simple (how much does it cost to have a voice actor go "urgh", "aaaah", "medic!" and "grenade" anyway?).

Good point Jim, but actually in Call of Duty, they do show women, well actually, a woman in CoD4 as she's hear in the mission, Charlie Don't Surf, then you have to rescue her from a downed helicopter in the mission, Shock and Awe

So why not stick the female model in the multi-player part of the game? It's already there, is what your saying! No excuse!

Come on Jim, you shouldn't have thanked God this time, thank Mother Gea, when dressing a feminist womyn, you don't need to thank a phallocentric Male God, thank a female one, for Gea's sake.

Is it ever mentioned which God we are thanking for Jim? I can't seem to recall him ever specifying, so no why can't it be female! Thank God for Jim ^^

Why is it a thing that women have to be petite and short?
They have body sizes that differ as much as men do, sure they have less natural muscle than men do, but that doesn't mean they all have the physique of a 16 year old with two watermelons duct taped to them.

I'm 6 foot =D.

 

[dantoddd]

The arguments people use to justify not having female characters in games are so flimsy, and none of them really have anything to do with women specifically. All the arguments they use could be used to make an all-female filled game.

Actually, that would be really interesting to see. Unless it's something like DoA. I mean a game like an FPS (something typically male and "gritty" or "badass") except everyone is a woman, and not sexualised. Maybe there could be some plot about some future virus that latches on to the Y chromosome and completely debilitates the carrier, thus forcing females to fill all roles of society. The plot could be focused around trying to find a cure. That could be really interesting.

Oh and Jim, you look so sexy. Just like in my dream last night.

Good luck convincing anyone to fund that. This is the biggest problem really. FPS games cost alot of money. and if i'm going to invest 10-50 mn USD you better convince me that this game will not turn off or piss off the core demographic of FPS gamers, angry 15-30 year old virgin males.

 

[Jzcaesar]

I know the game was old, but I remember there were female soldiers in the COD 2 single player missions in Russia. That was definitely a historical fact I thought was well enough included into the game.

 

[Twinmill5000]

Those defenses against female characters are absolute bullshit, and you and I both know it. The people that spew those defenses (that it costs more to make female and female characters, and that it's imbalanced), are hiding behind those absolutely shitty excuse when, in reality, this is the reasoning for most of them.

They don't want to shoot women. They don't want to see women die. They don't want to line up a woman in their sights, and pull the trigger. I sure as hell don't in a serious game, in a cartoony and lighthearted game maybe, but not a serious one, that's for sure. And that's okay. It just doesn't sit right with me. So?

It's a shock value for most. Sort of like the knifing system in BF3, where you saw your hand pull a man in his early 20's over, and he looked at you, almost with a helpless stare, as you jammed a blade into his chest/throat.

That system irked the fuck out of me. Every time.

Now imagine playing a game like BF3, and pulling that same move against a female character. Early 20s. Mildly attractive. If done right, not really wishing to do harm to the world, more that they have to. It will make some lose sleep. It'll give me nightmares, that's for sure.

Once again, shock value. It's why realistic* shooters don't have women in multiplayer. People haven't opened up to the idea of that yet.


But I go on 4chan. I can tell you something, and I know it better than most. No matter how shocking something is, no matter how it irks you, you can always be desensitized to it, to the point where, you really don't give it a second glance.


I never thought I could get over the knifing in BF3. I did. Eventually. Alot of people don't think they can get over shooting female avatars in a realistic game that portrays itself seriously. They can. Eventually.

The problem is, the first game to implement it will lose alot of sales, simply because people don't want to be phased by it. Of course, there's always a loophole.


Oh, and to all you people actually trying to argue about balance issues with male vs female characters.

S4 league. Female and male characters. Lighthearted game. Shooter.
Female dodge rolls are OP, cried all the little boys,
since the males did this dash where they got low and the females twirled
yet people who actually played the game with both gender characters actually scored about the same

 

[Scrustle]

The arguments people use to justify not having female characters in games are so flimsy, and none of them really have anything to do with women specifically. All the arguments they use could be used to make an all-female filled game.

Actually, that would be really interesting to see. Unless it's something like DoA. I mean a game like an FPS (something typically male and "gritty" or "badass") except everyone is a woman, and not sexualised. Maybe there could be some plot about some future virus that latches on to the Y chromosome and completely debilitates the carrier, thus forcing females to fill all roles of society. The plot could be focused around trying to find a cure. That could be really interesting.

Oh and Jim, you look so sexy. Just like in my dream last night.

Good luck convincing anyone to fund that. This is the biggest problem really. FPS games cost alot of money. and if i'm going to invest 10-50 mn USD you better convince me that this game will not turn off or piss off the core demographic of FPS gamers, angry 15-30 year old virgin males.

Doesn't necessarily have to be an FPS, just a game where the female characters are portrayed as being strong and capable, and not being objectified or being nothing but eye-candy.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

I can dig no female characters in CoD since the SAS, Navy SEALS and Delta Force at least do not allow women in its ranks. It would have made sense to include them in the stuff thats happening on US soil since at that point if you can point and shoot, you're probably getting sent somewhere to do it.

Howeve the knowledge that Vasquez was not one of the pre-order multiplayer skins, or that female skins are not in Colonial Marines, is a fucking crock of the highest order. Vasquez was one the biggest badasses ever, had some of the best lines and to me was pretty interesting. Fuck I'd have dropped Apone and kept Drake AND Vasquez


Not cool Gearbox.