Jimquisition: Limited Collector's Complete Edition
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
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I've been looking at pre-ordering Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning (based on how much I enjoy the demo when it is released). A lot of the time I order from Amazon, the only time I don't is when they don't have it in stock or I can get it A LOT cheaper.
On amazon its £40.00 to pre-order, and on Game its £40.00 but you get '9 Exclusive weapons when you pre-order from Game'. My initial thought was 'I might aswell buy from Game, same price but extra content'. Then I realised I'm not supporting that because everyone deserves to have the 'super awesome mega cool' weapons which probably make no difference regardless of where they bought it from.
If I like the Demo, Amazon is having my money
On amazon its £40.00 to pre-order, and on Game its £40.00 but you get '9 Exclusive weapons when you pre-order from Game'. My initial thought was 'I might aswell buy from Game, same price but extra content'. Then I realised I'm not supporting that because everyone deserves to have the 'super awesome mega cool' weapons which probably make no difference regardless of where they bought it from.
If I like the Demo, Amazon is having my money
Then you're probably living in some sort of alternate bizarro Europe, because I distinctly remember getting a store-specific (in this case amazon.co.uk) DLC with my copy of New Vegas (the horrible Tribal pack).chimpzy said:
Anyway, my opinion is that GOTY editions are fine, whereas day-one-DLC and so-called "Deluxe Editions" (I'm looking at you, Deus Ex: Human Revolution) do represent a problem.
Yeah, video games do get price drops after a few months, but I fail to see how that is different from the way hardware drops in price over time (especially for PC gamers).
Thank you Jim and even if nobody listens to you at least after everything goes to shit people like me can point to your videos and say "Look! You fucking twats! He's been warning you all along and you didn't listen...YOU DIDN'T LISTEN!!!"
That's what I was thinking. I mean the Oblivion Game of the Year Edition came out years after the actual game with all the DLC. Paying for it before that was basically paying for early access, it's not like the GOTY had more stuff or anything.Satosuke said:
And why complain about stuff dropping in price? EVERYTHING drops in price after awhile (except necessities like food of course). Computer parts, phones, games, movies, music, cars, hell even hookers lower their price as they get older
Despite being really excited for the game, I didn't buy L.A. Noire when it came out, because I knew they would eventually release some sort of Complete Edition.
I didn't buy Marvel vs. Capcom 3 because I was gonna wait until they (potentially) made Phoenix Wright as DLC. Then they went and released a whole new game for it, and I'm REALLY glad I didn't buy the regular one (although that's a game I am gonna buy used because I'm pissed at Capcom)
And I didn't buy Skyrim because I know they're gonna be trotting out a game of the year edition sometime this year.
Thank you Jim, for making this episode to remind me that these sort of actions are ok, and it doesn't make me some sort of "non-true gamer" for following them.
You and I may not always agree, but good for you for trying to get things done. Thanks a lot.
EDIT: To the people who are saying "well everything drops in price" not really. Big games that continue to sell well without dropping in price still exist. Pokemon Heart and Soul are still $35 and they came out about 2 years ago and people still buy them. That's pretty good compared to a sixty dollar game dropping to 20 in only a couple months.
I didn't buy Marvel vs. Capcom 3 because I was gonna wait until they (potentially) made Phoenix Wright as DLC. Then they went and released a whole new game for it, and I'm REALLY glad I didn't buy the regular one (although that's a game I am gonna buy used because I'm pissed at Capcom)
And I didn't buy Skyrim because I know they're gonna be trotting out a game of the year edition sometime this year.
Thank you Jim, for making this episode to remind me that these sort of actions are ok, and it doesn't make me some sort of "non-true gamer" for following them.
You and I may not always agree, but good for you for trying to get things done. Thanks a lot.
EDIT: To the people who are saying "well everything drops in price" not really. Big games that continue to sell well without dropping in price still exist. Pokemon Heart and Soul are still $35 and they came out about 2 years ago and people still buy them. That's pretty good compared to a sixty dollar game dropping to 20 in only a couple months.
There's certain instances where I think an "At launch" collectors edition is fine, usually with MMOs. In those cases you're getting some bonus in game stuff for spending the extra money which you, in most cases, get for ever. Rift, for example, if you pre-ordered the CE you got a free mount for every character you'll ever make as well as some extra lil things.
I also think "Box sets" are appropriate. I own many a "Premium Edition" of games because they came in a nice box with some collectible stuff. They were in a genre I like from companies I'm fond of and am willing to spend an extra $10 on (which still only put most of the games at $60) and I got free shipping in the process, so it sorta evens out.
What bothers me is shit like what Capcom does with every game they make these days. Every 6-9months they release the same game with a few editions and an extra adjective on the title and sell it at full price. Then you have the utterly vapid fans of the series who are like "Well getting that stuff as DLC would be an extra $80 on its own." That means the shit is OVERPRICED and your a dumb-ass for paying for it at all.
I also think "Box sets" are appropriate. I own many a "Premium Edition" of games because they came in a nice box with some collectible stuff. They were in a genre I like from companies I'm fond of and am willing to spend an extra $10 on (which still only put most of the games at $60) and I got free shipping in the process, so it sorta evens out.
What bothers me is shit like what Capcom does with every game they make these days. Every 6-9months they release the same game with a few editions and an extra adjective on the title and sell it at full price. Then you have the utterly vapid fans of the series who are like "Well getting that stuff as DLC would be an extra $80 on its own." That means the shit is OVERPRICED and your a dumb-ass for paying for it at all.
Many good points that you've made. I often said that I hate DLC and the way it has started to affect the customer.
I remember a time when 'online' was an incentive for gamers to buy a game. Now it is something that I have to pay extra for especially if I get a used game.
I have had one solution though: instead of the online pass in its current form I would suggest that if you bought the game new within the first x months of release, the code would entitle the owner to all of the future DLC. This would make the early adopters get the full/complete collector's edition as a bonus for early adoption.
The only problem I see with this is that I like a disc version of all the content down the line. Even now, only 60% of 360 owners has Xbox Live. Without these complete editions later on, there is no way for the other 40% to access the content. I think that this issue would also need to be addressed.
I remember a time when 'online' was an incentive for gamers to buy a game. Now it is something that I have to pay extra for especially if I get a used game.
I have had one solution though: instead of the online pass in its current form I would suggest that if you bought the game new within the first x months of release, the code would entitle the owner to all of the future DLC. This would make the early adopters get the full/complete collector's edition as a bonus for early adoption.
The only problem I see with this is that I like a disc version of all the content down the line. Even now, only 60% of 360 owners has Xbox Live. Without these complete editions later on, there is no way for the other 40% to access the content. I think that this issue would also need to be addressed.
Frankly I'm surprised you're not more willing to wait till a price drop or for the "real" edition to come out with all the money you must spend on deviant art commissions. Ah, that was a cheap shot, I just can't stand watching deerunicorngiraffewolves gratifying the publishers who hate them.Satosuke said:
Though, more to the point. By your argument, you're not even paying for the game anymore when you buy it new. You're paying for the dubious privilege of playing it first. And, oh boy, if publishers catch onto people like you, there's a slippery slope if I ever saw one. Next thing you know they'll start having an "early access" fee you can pay to get the game a few weeks before everyone else and, sadly, people would pay for that.
You're also willingly paying more for less content. Take the people who bought MvC3. They dropped $60 on that game then, less than a year later, UMvC3 came out with more modes and characters. With that one, the way Capcom worked out the DLC is that buying the DLC as stand-alones cost almost double what it was to just buy UMvC3; basically taking a huge dump on the face of everyone who paid to play it first.
On to your new player point, if you are indeed just paying for the bragging rights of playing it first, shouldn't someone who buys the game new, even later on, get all the added DLC for free anyway rather than have the need for multiple "editions"? That would even give the publishers an excuse to keep the game at full price. Sure its 6 months later and still $60, but you're getting access to 6months of DLC at no additional cost. But no, instead you're left to deal with what are effectively a beta version of the game, which you paid full price for, and the complete edition of the game, which you now have to pay full price for.
Or, do the reverse of that and most, if not all, future DLC is included in the price of the game. You bought it on day 1? You get all the DLC forever for free. But, if someone buys it 6months later, used or otherwise, then they have the option of buying that backlog of DLC, thus allowing the publisher to recoup some losses from time,etc.
As far as retailer specific DLC, an increasingly high amount of it DOES affect the game. FF13-2, for example, has either in game weapons, a new in-game unit, or a real world book depending on where you purchase and for what system. Fortunately, this isn't very common practice yet, but it quickly might become so and would be a tool for publishers to dissuade people from buying from Gamestop cause they have the less appealing unique DLC. It also discourages people from buying from local, independent shops since they can't offer that little extra; in short, it is especially harmful to small businesses. Small businesses are the backbone of our economy, why do you want them to fail? Why do you hate America, comrade?
Guilt? Ha. Not likely. Though, the occasional collector's edition is a fine thing. Sometimes it's a way to drum up more interest. Though, admittedly, most are just clutter. And store-specific DLC is something I'd like to see banished to the far side of oblivion, because if it's a game I like, and like enough to get the DLC, then I either want all of it, or to pick and choose. Offering up codes for items that exist in the game but are deemed inaccessible because I preordered from one group, but not both, is six kinds of unscratchable-itch annoying. I'd love to personally meet the asshat that came up with that idea, because my knee desperately wants to come into contact with their genitals. Forcefully.
Though, not sure what your beef with Enslaved is. You pissed at the game? The developers? The reception? The way we completely failed to buy it, but kinda just passed around a couple copies between us? What's the deal there, Jim?
Though, not sure what your beef with Enslaved is. You pissed at the game? The developers? The reception? The way we completely failed to buy it, but kinda just passed around a couple copies between us? What's the deal there, Jim?
The whole episode was very well said, especially the bit about confusing consumers and making everyone have to do a mountain of research to buy a damn game.
At some point, I plan to do a similar video myself about the bullshit that is the music industry and their editions (iTunes edition, SHM edition, Japanese bonus tracks, regional variations, etc.)
In the age of the internet where piracy is quite common, all these companies are doing is punishing the consumer who wants to give them their hard earned money.
http://www.cpuhack.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/PiratevsLegit.jpg - this image sums it up best.
At some point, I plan to do a similar video myself about the bullshit that is the music industry and their editions (iTunes edition, SHM edition, Japanese bonus tracks, regional variations, etc.)
In the age of the internet where piracy is quite common, all these companies are doing is punishing the consumer who wants to give them their hard earned money.
http://www.cpuhack.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/PiratevsLegit.jpg - this image sums it up best.
I stopped buy special editions quite a bit ago. For the pointed points, how can something be special if EVERYBODY is special.
Sure sometimes it can be fun to get something extra but yeah.. statues.. those are cool but where to put them? DLC, sigh, you'll sell it later to everybody anyway. Not to mention when it comes to pre-order DLC that won't come out later it is never that special. Think about it a special sword, that for game balance reasons cannot be super powerful. So sure first levels it is bad ass, then it is equal and then it is just a fancy weaker sword then what you can find around.
Hell even Genki's DLC, lets be fair it is fun allot of fun but yeah it isn't needed. I did even get a nice deal with getting Darksiders free, okay then sure sounds good. Free extra older game with your new game purchase sounds fine.
But yeah special editions that really add little but "Oh you got the onion hat, lucky you" *shrug*
You know what I do allot? Second hand, the older generation hardware is allot of fun. And you know it is not always cheap either.. some titles have become rather hard to find. But worth owning, for instance Collector Editions of Zelda, yes the second disc with demo, some older zelda titles and so on. Good stuff! That is worth the extra money paid for it. This sunday I ended up ordering Persona 4, yes an old PS2 game but proven!
The best games end up to the those that you find 4-5 years later..good times. Now if you excuse me I have a foul mouthed, drunk and pissed off squirell calling me on the N64.
But yeah really .. why so many modern games need special editions. Who actually liked the balls of steel edition of DNF. Who actually did like DNF, at most I did ironically.
Sure sometimes it can be fun to get something extra but yeah.. statues.. those are cool but where to put them? DLC, sigh, you'll sell it later to everybody anyway. Not to mention when it comes to pre-order DLC that won't come out later it is never that special. Think about it a special sword, that for game balance reasons cannot be super powerful. So sure first levels it is bad ass, then it is equal and then it is just a fancy weaker sword then what you can find around.
Hell even Genki's DLC, lets be fair it is fun allot of fun but yeah it isn't needed. I did even get a nice deal with getting Darksiders free, okay then sure sounds good. Free extra older game with your new game purchase sounds fine.
But yeah special editions that really add little but "Oh you got the onion hat, lucky you" *shrug*
You know what I do allot? Second hand, the older generation hardware is allot of fun. And you know it is not always cheap either.. some titles have become rather hard to find. But worth owning, for instance Collector Editions of Zelda, yes the second disc with demo, some older zelda titles and so on. Good stuff! That is worth the extra money paid for it. This sunday I ended up ordering Persona 4, yes an old PS2 game but proven!
The best games end up to the those that you find 4-5 years later..good times. Now if you excuse me I have a foul mouthed, drunk and pissed off squirell calling me on the N64.
But yeah really .. why so many modern games need special editions. Who actually liked the balls of steel edition of DNF. Who actually did like DNF, at most I did ironically.
My god. Jim Sterling really is right about everything.
And of course, the other thing developers could do in their "collectors editions" is stop packing it with crap. I mean, take a look at some of the crap the jam in there. Oooo, concept art, behind the scenes and making of DvDs, and one good thing. And they have the nerve to charge 40 bucks or more for that stuff.
I was tempted to buy the D:3 CE but lets take a look at whats in there. The game (obviously), Diablo skull flash drive mount and soulstone flash drive with diablo 1 and 2 on it. Digital aesthetic items for D3, WoW and SC2. Behind the scenes blue/ray dvd set. An art book. And the sound track.
OMG, so much stuff right? Not really. First, anyone who really wants to buy the collectors edition has probably already played at least diablo 2, if not 1 and 2. So, wow. New copies of games. I already own. Super. The aesthetic items are meh at best. The behind the scenes "making of" stuff. Who cares? Do people even watch those? I tried watching the behind the scenes for a starwars movie once. Snore. A conceptual artbook. Again, who cares? I bought the collectors edition of Wrath of the lich king and I flipped through that art book once. Now its collecting dust. And the soundtrack. What, are you going to put it on your iPod or something and listen to the D3 soundtrack while you are out jogging? The only cool thing in the entire box is the diablo skull and the soulstone flashdrive, but even thats only a 4g drive. You can buy one of those at walmart for like 10 bucks.
And so how much are you paying for a diablo skull and a 4g flashdrive? 40 bucks (vs the price of the regular version)
How about paring down all this "value" and just giving the cool stuff that people would actually want, for at most 20 bucks. Scrap the token "collectors edition" stocking stuffer bullcrap that nobody wants and save us both money.
And of course, the other thing developers could do in their "collectors editions" is stop packing it with crap. I mean, take a look at some of the crap the jam in there. Oooo, concept art, behind the scenes and making of DvDs, and one good thing. And they have the nerve to charge 40 bucks or more for that stuff.
I was tempted to buy the D:3 CE but lets take a look at whats in there. The game (obviously), Diablo skull flash drive mount and soulstone flash drive with diablo 1 and 2 on it. Digital aesthetic items for D3, WoW and SC2. Behind the scenes blue/ray dvd set. An art book. And the sound track.
OMG, so much stuff right? Not really. First, anyone who really wants to buy the collectors edition has probably already played at least diablo 2, if not 1 and 2. So, wow. New copies of games. I already own. Super. The aesthetic items are meh at best. The behind the scenes "making of" stuff. Who cares? Do people even watch those? I tried watching the behind the scenes for a starwars movie once. Snore. A conceptual artbook. Again, who cares? I bought the collectors edition of Wrath of the lich king and I flipped through that art book once. Now its collecting dust. And the soundtrack. What, are you going to put it on your iPod or something and listen to the D3 soundtrack while you are out jogging? The only cool thing in the entire box is the diablo skull and the soulstone flashdrive, but even thats only a 4g drive. You can buy one of those at walmart for like 10 bucks.
And so how much are you paying for a diablo skull and a 4g flashdrive? 40 bucks (vs the price of the regular version)
How about paring down all this "value" and just giving the cool stuff that people would actually want, for at most 20 bucks. Scrap the token "collectors edition" stocking stuffer bullcrap that nobody wants and save us both money.