Jimquisition: Objectification And... Men?

[Sepko]

So can i tell you how bad your behavior is whenever you don't lobby for companies to cater to other demographics? Because i'm sure you use a lot of products/services for which you don't follow the standard i'm supposed to follow for gaming.

Like what? Seriously, like what?

Do you complain about any company making primarily expensive products/services which you use and would cost too much for poorer people because they don't cater to them? Heck do you complain to your internet provider that their price might exclude the poorest?

So wait, we're comparing women to poor people now? This is a gender of humans we're talking about here, you don't compare them to poor people. Jesus, learn some respect.

God, how dare he compare women to poor people. Those damn filthy uncivilized peasants! The mere thought of being compared to those inferior idiots who didn't even have the basic sense to be born of standing and money, ugh!

Learn some respect indeed! To compare a perfectly normal person to a poor person, the disgrace! The idea alone is ridiculous, comparing a female to one from the uncouth unwashed masses? Lunacy!

Erm... just between you and me though, don't tell anyone I said this, but what exactly's so bad about being compared to poor people?

Because it's insinuating that women are on the same level as them. And I mean that in the kindest way possible. Also, comparing an entire gender to a class of people seems a bit jarring.

Heh, it just keeps getting better...

Might I ask what level that might be, in the kindest way possible of course?

Are we insinuating something here, or can I go back to arguing with the other guy?

 

[Sepko]

And yeah, people just like you are, again, always bitching about Hollywood film being created by and for a predominately male audience. So you might want to watch your six for friendly fire on that one.

You might want to check your history cuz I don't think I've heard that being said since the 80's. These days it's all "A black guy can't play the Human Torch, that'll ruin the lore!"

 

[generals3]

This isn't about consumerism it's about a sense of community, game companies sell to our community so whatever's in our community matters. And of course it matters what your so-called "opposing" group is, how freakin' jaded are you? You're comparing women, as a whole mind you, to a class of general people, and a lower class at that. How do you not see how much that's fucking horrible of you?

Because in this context the make up of the group is irrelevant. This is me not caring about the preferences of other consumers. Poor, rich, male, female, hippies, muslims, christians, idc what the make up is, all i want is the market to please me. If it's horrible of me to consider all the consumers as consumers when lobbying for my preferences as a consumer than i'll just be a horrible person.

There is no more gaming community as a car owner community. All we have in common is that we play games. All the gaming communities i care about are those who i interact with in games. Do you really think i care about WoW gamer number 948562 or CoD player number 51482145? No. And why should I? I don't interact with him and he probably doesn't like the same things as i do.

How little you care, perhaps. But, happily, not everyone in the gaming community's like you, so we can all live on happy with the knowledge that there are those of us who care at least a little bit about the opposite gender in our community.

So you never complain about mechanics because you wouldn't want to lobby against something other people like? Well you're an awesome altruist but somehow i doubt you are like that and have just decided to be sexist and discriminate based on gender and consider female gamers as deserving a special treatment. In which case i'd say: good job on bringing forth ideals from the Renaissance era (thinking women somehow need special assistance from men), i'll just hide in my corner with all those crazy thoughts like "the gender of my 'opponents' is irrelevant".

The characteristics of the "opposing" group is incredibly relevant, how could it not be? Are we living in some fantasy world where everything on god's green Earth is equal ground?
And again you're comparing women to completely the wrong things, the casuals are a collection of a small batch of both male and female gamers. The collection of female gamers is the entire collection of female gamers, and as members of the opposite gender they deserve to have a voice in gaming because they're the freakin' entire collection of female gamers.
You also seem to like touting about female gamers being weaker and needing help, do you not know how revolutions work? Admittedly, an extreme example but it gets the point across. People helping people is the best way to go about change, and so for those people who care about how women are portrayed in games they will help out the cause, that includes men as well, because why not? Straight people helped out the gays getting equal rights, should they not have done anything, just because they were straight thus having no stake in it at all? The same applies here, albeit on a smaller scale, but it still matters to a great deal of people. And all your business tripe doesn't change the fact that people want change.

How could it not be? Oh i don't know, maybe because to me as a costumer those people are just other costumers who are trying to get the industry to do things i may not approve. I know that the idea of putting all gamers on an equal foot is silly but i thought i'd give it a shot.

And they have the right to have a voice. But i don't have the obligation to be their voice. Just like casuals have a right to have a voice and i don't have the obligation to be their voice.

Unlike gay rights we're not talking about rights here. We're talking about a privilege. No one has the "right" to have the gaming industry making games they like, it's the industry which decides what it makes and who it will please and it's up to costumers to tell them they'll make money pleasing them. I'm not a communist, i don't advocate equal privileges.

 

[Sepko]

Because in this context the make up of the group is irrelevant. This is me not caring about the preferences of other consumers. Poor, rich, male, female, hippies, muslims, christians, idc what the make up is, all i want is the market to please me.

Well at least you're a douchebag to everyone in equal amounts. I suppose that deserves a medal from someone.

I'm not a communist, i don't advocate equal privileges.

Not even for the genders? How very sad. Meanwhile, the rest of us in not-horrible-person land will be trying our darndest to help make change. You're right, you don't have an obligation to speak up, but don't act like being indifferent makes you special in some way, because it just makes you look like an asshole. And if that's how you want to roll, fine, have fun, we won't miss you. You can have all the games that cater just to you personally and only to you. We'll be over here trying new things with our new girl friends and all the cool ideas they brought.

 

[Bashfluff]

Well, I very much disagree. I think when making the assertion that something is an industry wide problem it would be very pertinent to actually look at the games that have been released recently instead of using a video clip from a 10 year old video game that has been played in every single one of these videos before.

Did you read my argument? Did I ever mention ten year games? This hasn't just been a problem for the past five months. This has been a problem since the dawn of gaming. If you're so keen on research, you have to realize that isn't a substantive amount of data to draw conclusions from. Not even close. This is a small slice of time to look at for such a large scale problem. Figuring out what games released had these problems in the recent past allows us more data to pull from when determining the scale of the problem now as compared to the past. No one is arguing, "BECAUSE THESE GAMES TEN YEARS AGO WERE SEXIST OR PROBLEMATIC, SO GAMES IN GENERAL ARE!" I'm talking about some research to know more about what the problem really is.

Also you seem to be arguing that the games which have "objectification" in them sell better than the many, many others without, so basically that a lot more people want to play these video games and possibly ignore a lot of the ones that would be "different" or might appeal to a niche. Congratulations, you might have just found out how a "market" works and why AAA games are often designed the way they are.

Uh, no. Wrong on both counts. I'm just seeing how visible the objectification is in the industry as a whole. AAA games may have a worse problem than indy games in this regard. I don't know. But looking at sales is a good indicator of seeing what more people are exposed to in gaming. Or who knows, maybe this objectification is only really in games desperate to sell because they're garbage. It could be that the only problem is in how people can do stupid things because of desperation.

But we won't KNOW until we see the research.

And you're making a correlation/causation argument. Just because a game objectifies women does not mean it sells better. Just because a game fails to do so does not mean it sells more poorly. It could be a factor that affects sales in a negligible way, one that we can't necessarily notice because of how small it is. It could be that we can't calculate such an impact with the current data we have.

Additionally I don't care about "proving" any of this, the burden of proof lies with the accuser... I don't know if
you've ever heard that before. I was just making an observation that I think this claim of an "industry problem" is bollocks of the highest degree.

I have. Are you familiar with what the standards of evidence are?

Oh boy, wouldn't want to make anyone feel like something wasn't made for them, say like having different kinds of games for different kinds of people say Casual, Mobile, PC Games, Console games or god forbid having different genres like RPGs, Shooters or Strategy games that some people might not like.

You're not talking about game genres. You're talking about platforms. You're not talking about types of games. You're talking about the devices we play them on. But in any case...

Yeah. Different types of games should exist. Again, if you only read my post, maybe you'd see that. Games that are targeted toward men, including how they portray women, don't have to disappear. But when it gets to the point where it's essentially a boys club, where women feel uncomfortable playing their RPGs, shooters, or strategy games because of how they portray women? I think that's a problem worth looking at and discussing. I think different types of games need to be made.

Then I guess Activision is on the right track, because Call of Duty seems to appeal to the broadest possible market. Best make everything a Modern War shooter, set the difficulty to "brain dead" and generally try to get the broadest market appeal possible. I don't think you would like the resulting games very much.
Also I couldn't disagree more, what you describe sounds to me like a recipe for making the blandest and most boring game possible, or god forbid it "offend" anyone with anything. What I'm immediately thinking of is this:

Again, this is nonsense. If you even...say, read my post, you'd see how I laud games that mix things up, and I use diversity as the answer to the problem of sexism/unfavorable treatment of women in games.

We also established above, there are many, many games that "don't pander to those things", there is additionally always the possibility of building a team and going on KickStarter if one has some great idea.

One game does not a change in the industry make. But it's a step.

There are many RPG and Adventure developers lately that couldn't get any publishing deal because there supposedly wasn't a "market" for their games. Guess what they did? They took to KickStarter and appealed directly to the people that wanted a certain kind of game, they didn't take to the forums and bitched about it. There are hundreds of examples from Double Fine, Obsidian, Brian Fargo/InXile, Larian Studios and others.
Surely if there was such a high demand for specific content featuring female characters, someone would have used that pitch by now or could do it and get great amounts of dollars?

Because it's not something you market a game around! It's one of many different choices in the design of your game. You can't sell a game on that. It's not like selling an RPG or a Shooter. "treats women acceptably" is not a genre.

It's still more than these "this is my opinion, based on muh feelings, and my opinion is fact" rants every other week. At least they tried the right methodology, even if they failed in the execution. What "Jim Sterling" thinks from his position of ignorance and all the stuff he misrepresents as "facts" isn't even worth that much.

I don't always agree with Jim, but he cites real sources and doesn't come into a discussion trying to falsify data. Those people aren't saying, "This is my opinion based on my feelings, and my opinion is fact."

But what they are saying is, "this is my opinion based on my feelings, and here's the facts to back it up, including people that say we should change how you're able to live your life. Oh, it's all falsified and exaggerated, though".



The rest just isn't my arguments or it's irrelevant.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

And yeah, people just like you are, again, always bitching about Hollywood film being created by and for a predominately male audience. So you might want to watch your six for friendly fire on that one.

You might want to check your history cuz I don't think I've heard that being said since the 80's. These days it's all "A black guy can't play the Human Torch, that'll ruin the lore!"

No, they're pretty much always bitching about it. Never stopped. You should look it up, assuming of course that your 'bleeding liberal heart' could possibly shoulder anymore burdens then the one that you're clearly carrying for the video game industry.

And I'm officially on record as being against the directors of superhero movies changing damn near any element of canon from the original source material. Unless I happen to like the change, in which case I never doubted their epic vision for even a moment.

Idris Alba got two thumbs up from me after I saw Thor. He made an epic space alien viking.

 

[Sepko]

You might want to check your history cuz I don't think I've heard that being said since the 80's. These days it's all "A black guy can't play the Human Torch, that'll ruin the lore!"

No, they're pretty much always bitching about it. Never stopped. You should look it up, assuming of course that your 'bleeding liberal heart' could possibly shoulder anymore burdens then the one that you're clearly carrying for the video game industry.

And I'm officially on record as being against the directors of superhero movies changing damn near any element of canon from the original source material. Unless I happen to like the change, in which case I never doubted their epic vision for even a moment.

Idris Alba got two thumbs up from me after I saw Thor. He made an epic space alien viking.

I'll reiterate: I don't think I've recently heard that being said in any substantially important way since the 80's Hollywood's pretty much got the whole lady-man advertising thing downpat. Gaming's still got a way to go with that.

Also Idris Alba was fucking boss

 

[generals3]

Because in this context the make up of the group is irrelevant. This is me not caring about the preferences of other consumers. Poor, rich, male, female, hippies, muslims, christians, idc what the make up is, all i want is the market to please me.

Well at least you're a douchebag to everyone in equal amounts. I suppose that deserves a medal from someone.

I'm not a communist, i don't advocate equal privileges.

Not even for the genders? How very sad. Meanwhile, the rest of us in not-horrible-person land will be trying our darndest to help make change. You're right, you don't have an obligation to speak up, but don't act like being indifferent makes you special in some way, because it just makes you look like an asshole. And if that's how you want to roll, fine, have fun, we won't miss you. You can have all the games that cater just to you personally and only to you.

Yeah i know it's sad that i'm not a sexist. I'm sorry for being a douchebag who lobbies for his preferences like the vast majority of consumers and that i don't make a sexist exception for women. I don't expect other gamers to lobby for my preferences and i shouldn't be expected to do it for others.

Being indifferent shouldn't make me special but you seem hell bent into claiming it does. You have thrown quite a few insults my way because i act equally indifferent towards everybody's preferences instead of considering women as special snowflakes. If anything i'm trying to point out how your sexist vision makes you special.

I'm actually still baffled by this concept that just because the group on the other side consists of females i should act differently. Maybe i just took that whole emancipation thing too seriously.

 

[Sepko]

I'm not a communist, i don't advocate equal privileges.

Not even for the genders? How very sad. Meanwhile, the rest of us in not-horrible-person land will be trying our darndest to help make change. You're right, you don't have an obligation to speak up, but don't act like being indifferent makes you special in some way, because it just makes you look like an asshole. And if that's how you want to roll, fine, have fun, we won't miss you. You can have all the games that cater just to you personally and only to you.

Yeah i know it's sad that i'm not a sexist. I'm sorry for being a douchebag who lobbies for his preferences like the vast majority of consumers and don't make a sexist exception for women. I don't expect other gamers to lobby for my preferences and i shouldn't be expected to do it for others.

Being indifferent shouldn't make me special but you seem hell bent into claiming it does. You have thrown quite a few insults my way because i act equally indifferent towards everybody's preferences instead of considering women as special snowflakes.

I'm actually still baffled by this concept that just because the group on the other side consists of females i should act differently.

So asking the game industry to treat the women-folk a little nicer is somehow "a sexist exception for women"? On what planet exactly, cuz I don't believe Earth people make ridiculous statements like that.

I don't expect other gamers to lobby for my preferences and i shouldn't be expected to do it for others.

Ok, fine, don't, doesn't mean other people won't do it. Don't really have much to go on with your preferences anyway with your Civ and MSG and WoW and multiplayer shooters. Real diverse, highly demanding for your satisfaction.

You have thrown quite a few insults my way because i act equally indifferent towards everybody's preferences instead of considering women as special snowflakes.

Well now that I know you're just an equally indifferent asshole to everything that doesn't concern you and your bubble of personal satisfaction, I'm failing to see why I should continue arguing with you. Your rather bleak and useless view on what's being discussed on this thread isn't exactly helpful, and it's taken, what, 5 hours to figure that it wasn't even worth being argumentative towards you because you're just an equally indifferent asshole to everything that doesn't concern you and your bubble of personal satisfaction. I hope that works out, especially if you get a girlfriend, I'd like to set a timer to see how long it takes before she walks out because you asked her why something she wants to do should concern you.

 

[Lymond]

An actual example of men being objectified might be useful by adding a little context to this discussion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYkwziTrv5o


If this were the norm and men asked to be shown with a little bit more dignity, I'm sure we could all agree that they might have a point.

 

[generals3]

So asking the game industry to treat the women-folk a little nicer is somehow "a sexist exception for women"? On what planet exactly, cuz I don't believe Earth people make ridiculous statements like that.

It is if it is only expected to be done for them. If i can try to lobby for a harder WoW despite all those who may not like it without being an asshole, than why should i give special attention to the needs of female gamers? Why is a gamer expected to suddenly act selflessly towards female gamers while we're known to be a selfish bunch of twats who complain and flame on gaming forums when there are things we don't like. No really go look at the forums of games, see how altruistic we are. See how many people go like "I think it's a good thing WoW became so easy despite me not liking it because casual players like it". Forums are usually filled with people flinging poo at each other. Even this one. Look at topics about EA and tell me how much this forum cares about all those costumers who like EA.

And actually, ironically, you're doing it yourself right now as well. You seem to think that making more female oriented games would make things better and lobby for it. Regardless of what other gamers may think.

Well now that I know you're just an equally indifferent asshole to everything doesn't concern you and your bubble of personal satisfaction, I'm failing to see why I should continue arguing with you. Your rather bleak and useless view on what's being discussed on this thread isn't exactly helpful, and it's taken, what, 5 hours to figure that it wasn't even worth being argumentative towards you because you're just an equally indifferent asshole to everything doesn't concern you and your bubble of personal satisfaction. I hope that works out, especially if you get a girlfriend, I'd like to set a timer to see how long it takes before she walks out because you asked her why something she wants to do should concern you.

Well, why what she wants to do would concern me is quite obvious. However what female gamer 2381257 wants... Well i don't see it. Unless she's going to somehow make my life better by being given a game she likes i don't see it. Her gaming needs being satisfied worry me just about as much as your car desires being met.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

I'm not a communist, i don't advocate equal privileges.

Not even for the genders? How very sad. Meanwhile, the rest of us in not-horrible-person land will be trying our darndest to help make change. You're right, you don't have an obligation to speak up, but don't act like being indifferent makes you special in some way, because it just makes you look like an asshole. And if that's how you want to roll, fine, have fun, we won't miss you. You can have all the games that cater just to you personally and only to you.

Yeah i know it's sad that i'm not a sexist. I'm sorry for being a douchebag who lobbies for his preferences like the vast majority of consumers and don't make a sexist exception for women. I don't expect other gamers to lobby for my preferences and i shouldn't be expected to do it for others.

Being indifferent shouldn't make me special but you seem hell bent into claiming it does. You have thrown quite a few insults my way because i act equally indifferent towards everybody's preferences instead of considering women as special snowflakes.

I'm actually still baffled by this concept that just because the group on the other side consists of females i should act differently.

So asking the game industry to treat the women-folk a little nicer is somehow "a sexist exception for women"? On what planet exactly, cuz I don't believe Earth people make ridiculous statements like that.

I don't expect other gamers to lobby for my preferences and i shouldn't be expected to do it for others.

Ok, fine, don't, doesn't mean other people won't do it. Don't really have much to go on with your preferences anyway with your Civ and MSG and WoW and multiplayer shooters. Real diverse, highly demanding for your satisfaction.

You have thrown quite a few insults my way because i act equally indifferent towards everybody's preferences instead of considering women as special snowflakes.

Well now that I know you're just an equally indifferent asshole to everything that doesn't concern you and your bubble of personal satisfaction, I'm failing to see why I should continue arguing with you. Your rather bleak and useless view on what's being discussed on this thread isn't exactly helpful, and it's taken, what, 5 hours to figure that it wasn't even worth being argumentative towards you because you're just an equally indifferent asshole to everything that doesn't concern you and your bubble of personal satisfaction. I hope that works out, especially if you get a girlfriend, I'd like to set a timer to see how long it takes before she walks out because you asked her why something she wants to do should concern you.

I'm skeptical as to whether anything anyone has said in the entire thread can fairly be called "helpful".

Why would you possibly think this post was a good idea? Granted, last guy who insulted me did it twice and got 2 warnings, whatever the hell that means... Doesn't mean you should push your luck too.

Exercise some good-judgement, why not?

 

[Sepko]

I'm skeptical as to whether anything anyone has said in the entire thread can fairly be called "helpful".

Why would you possibly think this post was a good idea? Granted, last guy who insulted me did it twice and got 2 warnings, whatever the hell that means... Doesn't mean you should push your luck too.

Exercise some good-judgement, why not?

Yeah nah I got out just then. I'm usually a bit more fluid with my insults so maybe I just got past it or something, but yeah thanks for the tip.
Thanks, Sexual Harrassment Panda! *jingle*
(couldn't resist)

 

[generals3]

I bid thee farewell, Equally Indifferent Asshole to Everything That Doesn't Concern You and Your Bubble of Personal Satisfaction, may you die alone, surrounded by all the games you lobbied for yourself

Now now, how is that supposed to somehow be insulting. Obviously dying alone would be awesome, all i need is my bubble of personal satisfaction. And unfortunately my lobbying isn't working that well, I need more altruistic people like you on the casual players' side to lobby for more difficult games they don't like. Also don't forget to tell the gaming industry that RTS's need more attention, we RTS fans aren't being treated nicely either. (I simply hope that you saw what I did there and maybe you'll someday realize that being blindly idealistic and insulting people who aren't won't get you anywhere)

*selfish asshole out*

 

[Sepko]

I bid thee farewell, Equally Indifferent Asshole to Everything That Doesn't Concern You and Your Bubble of Personal Satisfaction, may you die alone, surrounded by all the games you lobbied for yourself

Now now, how is that supposed to somehow be insulting. Obviously dying alone would be awesome, all i need is my bubble of personal satisfaction. And unfortunately my lobbying isn't working that well, I need more altruistic people like you on the casual players' side to lobby for more difficult games they don't like. Also don't forget to tell the gaming industry that RTS's need more attention, we RTS fans aren't being treated nicely either. (I simply hope that you saw what I did there and maybe you'll someday realize that being blindly idealistic and insulting people who aren't won't get you anywhere)

*selfish asshole out*

Difference being, had you been a friend I totally would've helped you out, except you're not a friend, you're an ass. An immense one. Your indifference to everything makes me want to choke a puppy, but instead I just won't lobby for your stupid crap, because you're an ass. An immense one. And that's fine, shows I have people-feelings and principles.
*cut*

 

[TAdamson]

snip

snip

So creating something that someone likes is passive exclusion? Because of the fact that someone else might not "like" it? If that is the case I would like to create a list things I'm passively excluded from but I don't want to crash the forum listing it all.
This idea of passive exclusion also seems to say that people are excluding them selves based on personal taste, not being passively excluded by a game. We usually call this personal choice not passive exclusion.

If using the word entitlement is weasely and inappropriate what can be said for the term passive exclusion? As long as nobody claims a right or privilege to be provided with changes to games ill stop using the term entitled but only if people don't use a ridiculous term like passively excluded.

Of course creating something that some people like and that others don't is not exclusion. But the people who don't enjoy that product are passively excluded when nothing is created to appeal to that other audience. It's like inviting a bunch of Muslims and Jews and vegetarians around and only serving pork buns. They could eat... Nothing "real" is stopping them. Except in this case we are talking about around 50% of the population.

This isn't the fault of any single game or genre of game but a problem of culture across the entire medium. It's not that Dragon's Crown of DoA shouldn't exist it'd just be nice to have more of something that balances them.

Nobody has a "right" to anything apart from hopefully basic civil rights. But we definitely have a right to say "there should be". (ie There should be better female characters. That is not entitlement. Entitlement implies rights and the use of it here suggests that people who would like gaming to be more properly mature are somehow grasping for rights that they of course do not have.

 

[generals3]

Difference being, had you been a friend I totally would've helped you out, except you're not a friend, you're an ass. An immense one. Your indifference to everything makes me want to choke a puppy, but instead I just won't lobby for your stupid crap, because you're an ass. An immense one. And that's fine, shows I have people-feelings and principles.
*cut*

Ok, i just had to come back to point out the irony. I guess i'm an asshole for not considering people i don't know and probably will never interact with me as not being my friends.

 

[generals3]

Of course creating something that some people like and that others don't is not exclusion. But the people who don't enjoy that product are passively excluded when nothing is created to appeal to that other audience. It's like inviting a bunch of Muslims and Jews and vegetarians around and only serving pork buns. They could eat... Nothing "real" is stopping them. Except in this case we are talking about around 50% of the population.

This isn't the fault of any single game or genre of game but a problem of culture across the entire medium. It's not that Dragon's Crown of DoA shouldn't exist it'd just be nice to have more of something that balances them.

Nobody has a "right" to anything apart from hopefully basic civil rights. But we definitely have a right to say "there should be". (ie There should be better female characters. That is not entitlement. Entitlement implies rights and the use of it here suggests that people who would like gaming to be more properly mature are somehow grasping for rights that they of course do not have.

But here's an important point. The gaming industry isn't run by one corporation. So who's the one actually excluding anybody? Every company is trying to make money and trying to make what they think sells the most, that seems to make sense. What if the vast majority of them think that selling male-centric content does that? Who's wrong than? What if hundreds of people were organizing parties and most thought pork would be the most liked meat? Is there something wrong with that? Now you can say that they should maybe think of those who don't like pork. But that's where the argument should end, shouldn't it? (and in most cases it doesn't end there unfortunately, it becomes a "let's try to shame and guilt the industry the most we possibly can"-fest)

 

[Sepko]

Difference being, had you been a friend I totally would've helped you out, except you're not a friend, you're an ass. An immense one. Your indifference to everything makes me want to choke a puppy, but instead I just won't lobby for your stupid crap, because you're an ass. An immense one. And that's fine, shows I have people-feelings and principles.
*cut*

Ok, i just had to come back to point out the irony. I guess i'm an asshole for not considering people i don't know and probably will never interact with me as not being my friends.

A friend to the cause, komrade!

 

[Chemical Alia]

So with proper money management we can have games that already cater to boys, and those weird pink things that allegedly cater to girls, and those that *le gasp* cater to both! What a tremendously outrageous notion.

No way, it's totally impossible to make characters that men and women can both enjoy and find cool! Better stop with that line of reasoning fast, or the next thing you know we'll have to start being clever and insightful about how we approach this kind of stuff and that's just way too much to ask of people who do this for a living.