Jimquisition: On-Disc DLC Cannot Be Justified

[hermes]

Okay, so, someone may need to clarify something for me. Is the entire "From Ashes" DLC from Mass Effect 3 "on disk dlc?" As in, was all the content for it on the disk? If it was, then in that case I would agree with Jim.

However, from what I heard concerning the entire "From Ashes" dlc was that Bioware developed it while the game was being shipped and then added some compatibility on the disk. I remember having to actually physically download the expansion and install the dlc, I don't THINK it was already on the disk, but I'm not too sure. If this is true, then I don't really have a problem with it. If Bioware chose to make new content while waiting for it to be shipped, then I just don't really understand what the complaint is, it isn't "locking off" any of the games actual content, it's just something extra.

No, its not about "From Ashes". That DLC was planned during the development of the game, but it was not included on the disc. It was proper "downloadable content" (some people have a problem with it being ready at the same time as the retail game, but that is another issue. Officially, the retail disc didn't have the content).

This is about games like SFxT, SC 4 or SF4, where features (in this case characters and costumes) where developed and included into the retail game, but locked behind a "downloadable key". The reasoning behind the complain is that we shouldn't be charged extra for something that is fully functional inside the disc we already bought.

 

[AetherWolf]

Okay, so, someone may need to clarify something for me. Is the entire "From Ashes" DLC from Mass Effect 3 "on disk dlc?" As in, was all the content for it on the disk? If it was, then in that case I would agree with Jim.

However, from what I heard concerning the entire "From Ashes" dlc was that Bioware developed it while the game was being shipped and then added some compatibility on the disk. I remember having to actually physically download the expansion and install the dlc, I don't THINK it was already on the disk, but I'm not too sure. If this is true, then I don't really have a problem with it. If Bioware chose to make new content while waiting for it to be shipped, then I just don't really understand what the complaint is, it isn't "locking off" any of the games actual content, it's just something extra.

No, its not about "From Ashes". That DLC was planned during the development of the game, but it was not included on the disc. It was proper "downloadable content" (some people have a problem with it being ready at the same time as the retail game, but that is another issue. Officially, the retail disc didn't have the content).

Actually, it was included on the disc. This video shows you:

 

[link6616]

On Disc DLC can still be called DLC...

It just doesn't Mean DownLoadable Content

It's Disk Locked Content.

 

[Dastardly]

On-Disc DLC Cannot Be Justified

There are explanations for games that ship with downloadable content already included. There are, however, no excuses. While you may have a reason, you do not have validation, because on-disc DLC is a problem willingly created by the industry, and it doesn't have to exist in the first place. You cannot justify a problem arranged by design, no matter how much you try and pretend it's out of your hands.

This week, the Jimquisition takes on one of this generation's growing aggravations, and you won't even get charged for it.

Watch Video

Remember how Goldeneye for the N64 had all of the cheats included with the game? And remember how some of those same cheats were offered as preorder bonuses for the Wii remake? There you have a clear-cut example of someone actually removing content from the original game, selling it again at a higher price, and gating the removed content in some way (in this case, behind a preorder).

 

[Lugbzurg]

I can think of at least one way it can be justified.

They didn't quite finish some content. So, part of it is on the disk. The rest doesn't exist, just yet. Imagine if Banjo-Kazooie had been released within this generation. I'd imagine Stop 'N' Swop would have been on-disk downloadable content.

 

[SageRuffin]

There's a big part that almost everybody is missing from their arguments (a few really, but to save time I won't go into everything).

We'll use SFxT like the video did. If the extra characters and such were already included within the core game itself, why can't we get the various items by simply fulfilling certain criteria within the core game? Instead, it's locked behind "keys" that you have to play and extra couple of dollars for, and if you don't feel like doing that then you're assed out.

KoF XIII kinda did it right, barring NESTS-style Kyo Kusunagi and Classic Iori Yagami. We'll look at Billy Kane, Saiki, Ash Crimson, and everything else there is to unlock in the game. TO do so, you simply need to do certain actions, like the old days. BUT, if you feel so inclined, you drop a few dollars and everything is available without you having to, say, grind out the 40 matches needed to unlock all of a character's color swatches.

Capcom also fucked up by revealing that the PSV would be getting all 12 extra characters when it drops later this year, which is always a big no-no (they're doing the same shit with MvC3 by adding a replay mode and visible hit-boxes). Now everyone's wondering "why does the inferior system get more, better goodies later down the line?" Cue the seething hatred towards Capcom we have today.

Then again... Capcom have been fucking up for while. This really shouldn't be too surprising.

 

[SageRuffin]

I can think of at least one way it can be justified.

They didn't quite finish some content. So, part of it is on the disk. The rest doesn't exist, just yet.

The problem with that argument, at least in the case of SFxT, is that minus some sound files I think, the characters are fully functional. There are videos on YouTube of people taking the extra characters and putting in work with them.

So, in Capcom's case at least, there's no excuse for this.

 

[The Great JT]

We are not worthy of you, Jim Sterling!

 

[Bostur]

Extra Credits makes an interesting counterpoint.

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/mass-effect-3-dlc

Paraphrasing one of ECs counterpoint:
Publishers needs to get DLCs out quickly before people lose interest in the games.

I get that argument, but just as Jim argues in his video I think this is a symptom of a problem the publishers caused themselves. First of all they sometimes makes games that deliberately have a very short life-span, I assume so that they can sell more games overall. If games were designed with greater longevity this wouldn't be as much of an issue. This also ties into the issue about second hand games, publishers wants us to consume more so they deliver less, but they don't want the negative consequences that follow.

My second counterpoint is that DLCs could actually be used to prolong the lifespan of a game, by adding extra playable content like expansion packs. But publishers are moving away from that strategy.

It really does feel like they want to have their cake and eat it too, and will go to any length to try to suck as much money out of a franchise as possible.

 

[duck-man]

Thanks for the video Jim! (And thank God for Jim)
Given that a game has extra, completed content by the time a game is released then I'd prefer that it's on the disc.
I was a little confused by the focus of Jim's arguments, but I think it was on the real problem: whether or not developers should/must then charge us for it.

 

[Melnordan]

First up I want to say that I love the show. This is a great program and I watch it every week

BUT

Every time I go to watch it I get the song from History of the world part one stuck in my head. Here let me share it with you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyQjiXSlU_w

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

I really hope he releases Bikini Jim Sterling as DLC.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

I've watched a few episodes of Jimquisition now and I wish that I could enjoy the segment cause I really agree with a lot of the opinions expressed,I just can't stand the presentation.

 

[TK421]

I don't think that I have ever agreed with anyone more than I agree with Jim on this day. On-disc dlc is trash, and bullcrap. I hope every single on-disc dlc is hacked, and the publishers make no money out of it whatsoever.

 

[Trishbot]

On-disc DLC is so wrong.

Damn, every time I say "remember when you unlocked characters, stages, and secrets by PLAYING the game?" I feel a bit older.

 

[tehweave]

The gaming industry and the world is run by money. It sucks but it's true. If we don't want DLC to happen, don't buy it. If a game is sold almost entirely on DLC, and you don't like that, don't buy it.

As much as it seems like it isn't true, the industry is controlled by the consumer. We buy item A, they're going to sell more things like item A. We buy DLC, they're going to make more. It's an effective marketing strategy and they'll keep doing it if we keep buying into it.

The only way to stop on-disc-dlc is to not buy the game. The industry will learn and stop doing what doesn't make them money.

 

[daxterx2005]

Cliffy B is one of those zombies from Resident Evil zero?

 

[darksakul]

People who complain about on-disc DLC (a misnomer) don't understand how video games are made.

Rather simple really.

Agreed 100%.

Not all downloads to enable DLC is just a serial key for unlocks.
What if a particular segment, character or stage is glitched and there do in time to fix it before release?

An easy way to remove bad or erroneous content is to lock it out of normal use.
Programers do it all the time with bad code. It is called \\commenting out bad code.

In the code you put the symbol for a comment. Parts of the code that supposed to serve as a note to the developers/programers but not as normal code. When a script does not work, some programers comment out such code to see how the program works with out it.

Now what if that last part of the product cycle, where the development team does jack shit. They get resigned to other projects or get FIRED. Instead of firing perfectly good staff, you have them fix these errors for this locked content and have them release the fix as a update.

Additional work cost Money unfortunately, why do work for free when you can charge for it.

The other hand, side projects that becomes add-ons or other DLC are done by staff that do not work on the main project. Locked on the disk or not the Studio does not do work for free. Why not charge for it.

Jim Sterling, we both don't give a fuck how the big name publisher proffits at the end of the year, but you expect the underpaid over worked staffers to get fired because he can't work on his side project DLC?

Think of it this way, you buy a car (new or used) I am pretty sure the dealer will charge for the gas already in the tank.

 

[Dryk]

Now what if that last part of the product cycle, where the development team does jack shit. They get resigned to other projects or get FIRED. Instead of firing perfectly good staff, you have them fix these errors for this locked content and have them release the fix as a update.

It's really strange this only ever seems to happen at companies with these types of business practices. Companies that value their customers can always seem to find something for their staff to do.

 

[Doom-Slayer]

On-Disc DLC Cannot Be Justified

There are explanations for games that ship with downloadable content already included. There are, however, no excuses. While you may have a reason, you do not have validation, because on-disc DLC is a problem willingly created by the industry, and it doesn't have to exist in the first place. You cannot justify a problem arranged by design, no matter how much you try and pretend it's out of your hands.

This week, the Jimquisition takes on one of this generation's growing aggravations, and you won't even get charged for it.

Watch Video

Eeeeh for one of the first times Im going to have to disagree. Because there always ARE situations where the on disk dlc is necessary. If a developer has a strict time frame for their game to be released and they run out of time during the normal development for the extra content they want to include, they can then work on it during that validation process. The fact is if the game is going through that process, they cant simply just add it in, and if it isn't very necessary content, all they do is put it up for sale for a few dollars. Ya they probably should put it up for free, but thats a different issue, its still fine for it to be there

That seems to be a big issue Jim ignored is when devs actually may NOT have a choice about these things. Publishers are the ones that decide release dates and how the content is shipped, so it is plausible for them to have these restrictions.

Also am I the only one that thinks this whole thing is completely stupid? If they went ahead and made the SAME dlc, in the SAME time, then just released it after launch, nobody would bat an eyelid, except now when its made easier for consumers to get at, we call them out on it. For all we know a vast amount of dlc COULD be being made during these times then not put on disk, and apparently thats better than it being on the disk, even though its made during the same time, and its the same content, but the delivery method is different.