Jimquisition: Piracy - Trying To Kill It Makes It Stronger

[SenseOfTumour]

What Jim said is pretty much what I've been saying for a while now.

Firstly that it's not even all about 'potential lost sales', it's about CONTROL. The industry is angry that they're not allowed to dole out the bits of entertainment they want, to the places they want at the prices they want. They CAN, and they are, but piracy's running rife, not because most pirates won't pay, but because they'd love to pay and get their copy of the things they love, but it's been decided the release date for their country is next year, and we're editing stuff out, and we're holding back on extras for a special edition a few months later and and and...

It's why I've got DVDs on my shelf unopened, and downloaded files of the exact same stuff sitting on my PC. Because I've paid for it, and the version uploaded by pirates WORKS, and doesn't piss me about with ads and anti piracy nonsense. That and there's the simple convenience of being able to click and watch, over loading a dvd drive.

Lazy? Sure. 'First World Problems'? Sure. Overprivileged, whining, *****? Sure I am. Facts are tho, I'm the customer. Make it easy for me to give you my money, and you'll get it. Make me jump thru hoops, and damn, I'll not even get up from the damn couch, I've got a wireless connection.

There's BILLIONS to be made in just making things available to buy, and with almost everything being digital now, there's ZERO reason that old episodes of Knight Rider or the Banana Splits or the original series of the B&W 'Twilight Zone' with Rod Serling shouldn't be available to EVERYONE at a reasonable cost.

"But there's laws against the content of video, music and games in certain countries!"

So, scrap SOPA,ACTA,PIPA and the rest, and take about ONE fucking per cent of that budget, and invest it in changing those laws so people can make some money. If something can't be sold in a country, then stop complaining it's being pirated there as you can't legally make any money from it, and it's good advertising for what comes next, which MAY be ok there.

There's also a fine point above, sure, bundle shitty DRM in your games if your shareholders demand you do something about a problem you can't fix.

But when it shows up on the bay 2 days after release, get on a patch so your legit customers are at least getting an equal version to the pirates. If you can beat to relinquish the control.

As so many here agree with me, Steam is the way forward, it leaves you the hell alone, makes it TOO damn easy to just click and buy things you like, and has, ok, unreasonable prices on some new games, but such wonderful sales you don't mind waiting

There's a reason the last PC game I bought on disc was a WOW expansion, and I have over 160 titles listed on Steam.

 

[JohnnyDelRay]

The simple reason they don't do more stuff like steam is look what happened with origin as soon as it was announced everyone came out and said they hated it and would never use it and just pirate EA games so I can see why publishers would be put off this kind of service.

The difference is, Origin didn't need to exist. Steam exists already.

Well that's not really a valid argument because why is there more than one supermarket chain in the world, why is there more than one car manufacturer in the world, why is more than one video game retailer in the world because it provides choice without it you get a monopoly and that is always a bad thing.

This is true. I mean every market needs competition, that's why Windows is a pricey f**king mess and why the prices of AMD and Intel processors are so cheap, yet continue to try to raise the bar.

Anyway, the problem with Origin isn't that it doesn't need to exist, it has every right to exist like any digital distribution platform, as much as I f'king HATE EA I can see why they want in on the action. I mean we have awesome potential with guys like GOG.com. But why people hate Origin is because:
1) it's trying to take people away from Steam that they are used to, rather than issue an alternative
2) All that shit about their spyware and dodgy EULA
3) Shitty always-on requirement
4) BF3 looking for servers through a BROWSER (which Origin should do, since you've installed it and need to run it in the background already)

Well those are my humble conclusions anyway, but the above points were enough to stop me buying BF3 even though I bloody built a computer to play it not 2 months before its release.

 

[Akimitsu]

Having been in the United States' armed forces, and having traveled to a few places around the world, the undeniable impression I get is that for the most part piracy in places like America, or Britain or wherever else these issues are in the forefront of media isn't really that big of a problem. The "millions and millions" of copies of games being stolen are more likely happening in other countries where either you are completely unable to purchase a product due to trade restrictions or what-have-you, or the price of the game MSRP is simply too great. Perhaps there's even a third reason; a complete lack of respect for the laws that piracy-conscious countries (for the most part) abide by.

I've been to countries where nearly every store that sold software or media did so by selling burned discs or hacked copies. Hell, even cartidges for nintendo handhelds were hacked and copied. These are places where it's the norm to get what we call illegal copies, only it's completely legal there.

Compare that to my personal sample size of pirates versus legit-buyers. I've known, in the past 10 or so years since I enlisted, between 150 and 200 gamers well enough to know their stance on piracy. Without exaggeration, the number of people in that group who downloaded a game illegally more than once was about 5. I say more than once, because when you're deployed to a foreign country, you sometimes just cannot get access to a game store that has what you want, so eventually a lot of people will just say "screw it, I'll download it and buy it when I get the chance." I would trust my personal sample size better than I would any figure pulled out of a company's ass, because companies lie plain and simple.

 

[CapitalistPig]

What Jim said is pretty much what I've been saying for a while now.

Firstly that it's not even all about 'potential lost sales', it's about CONTROL. The industry is angry that they're not allowed to dole out the bits of entertainment they want, to the places they want at the prices they want. They CAN, and they are, but piracy's running rife, not because most pirates won't pay, but because they'd love to pay and get their copy of the things they love, but it's been decided the release date for their country is next year, and we're editing stuff out, and we're holding back on extras for a special edition a few months later and and and...

It's why I've got DVDs on my shelf unopened, and downloaded files of the exact same stuff sitting on my PC. Because I've paid for it, and the version uploaded by pirates WORKS, and doesn't piss me about with ads and anti piracy nonsense. That and there's the simple convenience of being able to click and watch, over loading a dvd drive.

Lazy? Sure. 'First World Problems'? Sure. Overprivileged, whining, *****? Sure I am. Facts are tho, I'm the customer. Make it easy for me to give you my money, and you'll get it. Make me jump thru hoops, and damn, I'll not even get up from the damn couch, I've got a wireless connection.

There's BILLIONS to be made in just making things available to buy, and with almost everything being digital now, there's ZERO reason that old episodes of Knight Rider or the Banana Splits or the original series of the B&W 'Twilight Zone' with Rod Serling shouldn't be available to EVERYONE at a reasonable cost.

"But there's laws against the content of video, music and games in certain countries!"

So, scrap SOPA,ACTA,PIPA and the rest, and take about ONE fucking per cent of that budget, and invest it in changing those laws so people can make some money. If something can't be sold in a country, then stop complaining it's being pirated there as you can't legally make any money from it, and it's good advertising for what comes next, which MAY be ok there.

There's also a fine point above, sure, bundle shitty DRM in your games if your shareholders demand you do something about a problem you can't fix.

But when it shows up on the bay 2 days after release, get on a patch so your legit customers are at least getting an equal version to the pirates. If you can beat to relinquish the control.

As so many here agree with me, Steam is the way forward, it leaves you the hell alone, makes it TOO damn easy to just click and buy things you like, and has, ok, unreasonable prices on some new games, but such wonderful sales you don't mind waiting

There's a reason the last PC game I bought on disc was a WOW expansion, and I have over 160 titles listed on Steam.

All your quotes are the same reason I don't rent anything from "The Red Box" not because I wouldn't, its $1 a night fuck's sake. But because I DON'T WANT IT. ITS CRAP. I walk up to one right after I go into my bank! You couldn't get me at a better time! I practically want to give you my money. and its just crap. The movies are worthless because they know they are worthless. Its the same with games they don't care so they don't provide good entertainment. I've made the effort where are you distributors?

 

[DanDeFool]

I wonder what would happen if a game were to be released, and you had the choice of paying extra for a DRM free version. Say, a $10 convenience fee. No codes no nothing, just the game ready to play. Sure it'd be easier to pirate, but it's already easy. I'd love for them to just remove the DRM, everyone hates it anyway, and for good reason. But we all know that won't happen, so why not this idea?

Because why the fuck should we have to pay more? That's like charging £2 for a sandwich and a knee in the balls or £10 for just a sandwich.

Fucking commercial Stockholm Syndrome.

Agreed. We should not have to pay more just to assuage the publishers.

In fact, we probably are already paying more because of DRM. You think that SecuROM licenses are free? You think incorporating it into the game doesn't add to development time? You think setting up the infrastructure to support all these online pass and Internet-authentication schemes (and keep them running) is cheap?

If anything companies like EA could probably save money if they didn't bother with all this godforsaken DRM. Of course, then they would definitely lose money through increased piracy. My point is, there has to be a happy medium here: a way that publishers can defend their properties with enough force to discourage casual piracy without forcing paying customers to dance like marionettes to get what they paid for.

Let's face it, if any third-grader can stick your disc in a DVD burner, make a copy, and have that copy work exactly as well as the original, you're probably not doing enough. If your customer has to enter three different codes, have an always-on Internet connection, and set up an account on a service they don't need just to play the single player campaign, now you're just making an ass of yourself.

PS: I'm surprised Jim didn't mention my greatest fear regarding all this DRM bullshit. Losing access to something you paid for.

If I buy a PS2 game, I can put it in my PS2, and it will work until the disc degrades or becomes too badly scratched to read. If I'm careful in how I handle and store my games, that could be decades away.

If I buy Battlefield 3, and install it on my PC, it will work until the disc degrades or becomes scratched, OR UNTIL EA DECIDES TO PULL THE PLUG ON ORIGIN. That could be as little as a year away, and probably won't be longer than 5-10 years. A big difference in longevity.

And here's a nice pro-piracy argument for you to think about: if I'm allowed to store an electronic copy of a game on a more reliable storage medium (like a regularly backed-up RAID array, or a cloud server), then theoretically, all I have to worry about is the hardware, which could last for half a century! Better yet, if a reliable emulator gets produced that runs on computers of the time (as has been done for many already-obsolete game systems) I could keep my games forever! Talk about providing a superior service!

People whine about Sony offering PS2 games as digital downloads for the PS3. I see it as progress; slow progress, but at least it's something. Maybe also give us the option to put our old discs into the PS3, have the system recognize them, and then give us access to the digital downloads? When Hell freezes over? Or, maybe just when Hell gets air conditioning? Only time will tell.

 

[Alphamarigi]

Why did he say Jeff Dunnum? JEFF IS FUNNY. Mancea on the other hand.

 

[DonTsetsi]

Steam is not better than piracy, not yet, bittorents allow you to download at the maximum speed of your connection, Steam has an arbitrary limit. Security concerns have been solved long ago by creating communities within the torrent sites and using moderators, who ban everything suspicious. Steam is one of the closest to piracy in user-friendliness, but it is still worse.

 

[NaramSuen]

When it comes to piracy, it seems that Jim and I are 100% agreement. Make it convenient and easy to deliver quality games to your consumers and you will make a fortune.

With regards to obstacles, I would like to add region codes. They create a situation where I cannot play a legally purchased copy of a game on my legally purchased console/portable for no logical or defendable reason. Combine this with when games are not released in a particular region and you wonder why piracy continues to exist?

 

[JohnnyDelRay]

There can be hundreds of videos like this and thousands of people agreeing with it, but *nothing* is going to stop the DRM from being a hassle, or getting even worse. Because as many people that moan about it, the games with the DRM implemented still continue to sell better than anything. So there's no reason for them to not implement it. Do EA and Ubisoft seem to be suffering on account of how much shit they put customers through just to play their games? NO.

Unfortunately, the only way to vote is with your wallet, which unfortunately means people pirating instead of buying. And as long as piracy continues, it will continue to give them a "reason" to keep implementing DRM with little or no repercussion. So it's quite a vicious circle with no way out I'm afraid.

 

[M.C.Dillinger]

Not buying the product is the absolutely appropriate response. I 100% agree with you on that. That in *no* way justifies piracy. You see, in most enterprises, not buying the product means not *having* the product. If a store introduced mandatory, full-on body scans because they had a problem with thievery, nobody would argue in their favor. At the same time, we wouldn't see all these pathetic attempts to excuse the thieves either. Nobody would be saying, "Well, given what they do, I see why people sneak in and steal shit." No, they'd just be saying "Hey, don't shop from those pricks.."

The only reason.. the *only* reason.. piracy is as prevalent as it is is because of people like you who turn a blind eye to it and let others get away with it without condemning it. Does DRM suck? Yes. Is it an excuse to pirate? NO. So when we say shit like "Well, I understand why people are doing it," we're the ones who are making excuses for the shit-heads who are actually doing it. Would-be pirate looks around the internet, gets his/her self-righteous "Yeah! I'm fightin' the man, man!" rationalization in place, and goes and gives the companies more reasons to put on DRM.

You want proof? Smoking. Nothing anybody did could get smoking to decline until people at large started going, "You know what? That's a really gross habit." Societal pressure did a hell of a lot more damage to smoking than anything any company did. And what we, as decent people need to start doing is telling pirates "That's a really shitty thing to be doing."

Will it stop all of them? Of course not. Some people are pricks by nature. But most folks are generally pretty decent and try to avoid doing things that other people think are shitty.

The thing is, we don't need to stop all of them, we just need to get the numbers low enough that there's less and less justification for the DRM in the first place, because if we're smart, we'll be telling the companies "You know, all this DRM crap is a pretty shitty thing to be doing," at the same time, and trust me, developers *want* to be able to listen. You think they like having to code in circles to try and hamper pirates? Hell no.

So if we stop blaming companies for piracy and start blaming the pirates, if people start thinking, "What if my friends find out I didn't pay for this game?" instead of "I'll show those guys and their DRM.." then that means we win. Companies will be able to spend less resources trying to protect what's theirs, and more on making it the best it can be.

Thank you, every time piracy is brought up on the Internet I begin to think I'm the only person who can think on a scale larger than oneself. Unlike you, however, I'm not that optimistic about the kindness of strangers. One thing I've learned over my short life is that people will believe what is convenient to them. That is why they are such sophisticated apologetics around piracy. To admit that piracy is a problem would require that the individual, who was likely become accustomed to free stuff over the last 10 years, is to blame for a problem.

I'm not even sure how to make someone feel guilt for such a web of reassurance. The only solution to piracy I can think of would be what's happening to megaupload right now.

I don't know why I'm bothering speaking my mind in this issue. The best that could happen is that I am ignored.

 

[sleeky01]

It is, and will remain, the pirates fault. You want to fight piracy? Here's a good way, tell everybody you know who's a pirate that they're a prick for forcing companies to put all this crap on their games to try to slow them down.

In a way, your right that some of this is the pirates fault. But just telling the person that uploaded the software/movie/music/whatever to the Internet for everyone to download that they are a 'bad person'--is just as effective as telling bullies in school they are scum. Bullying will always exist because there are just some kids out there that want to do something horrible to a person with no care of what others think of his/her character--and pirates are no different.

That's a valid point. Everyone ask themselves, how much trolling goes on the Internet. You think they give a rats-ass if you call them a useless prick?

Declaration: You pirate games off the Internet, You're the most useless pile of shit in existence.

Response: Cry more n00b and fuck-off....here's another seed.

 

[Metalrocks]

good episode. very true with pretty much everything.
i do understand why companies want to protect their product but they sure make it hard for the honest buyer to even get the game to run.

a friend of mine likes to pirate games because he thinks that games these days are not worth the price they have. he even thinks 10$ is already to much for a game. but he also said that pirated versions dont have the DRM stuff.

but yes, steam is great and a very good service. i really have no complaints anymore. but now we have this spyware origin from ?A, and this truly turns me off. now im not getting ME3 just because of that. and some people are still blind and believe ?As change of the EULA that origin doesnt scan anything anymore.

 

[Tharwen]

Indeed, Jim. Thank God for you.

I really wish some important game publishers would watch this and pay attention.

 

[JohnnyDelRay]

Not buying the product is the absolutely appropriate response. I 100% agree with you on that. That in *no* way justifies piracy. You see, in most enterprises, not buying the product means not *having* the product. If a store introduced mandatory, full-on body scans because they had a problem with thievery, nobody would argue in their favor. At the same time, we wouldn't see all these pathetic attempts to excuse the thieves either. Nobody would be saying, "Well, given what they do, I see why people sneak in and steal shit." No, they'd just be saying "Hey, don't shop from those pricks.."

The only reason.. the *only* reason.. piracy is as prevalent as it is is because of people like you who turn a blind eye to it and let others get away with it without condemning it. Does DRM suck? Yes. Is it an excuse to pirate? NO. So when we say shit like "Well, I understand why people are doing it," we're the ones who are making excuses for the shit-heads who are actually doing it. Would-be pirate looks around the internet, gets his/her self-righteous "Yeah! I'm fightin' the man, man!" rationalization in place, and goes and gives the companies more reasons to put on DRM.

You want proof? Smoking. Nothing anybody did could get smoking to decline until people at large started going, "You know what? That's a really gross habit." Societal pressure did a hell of a lot more damage to smoking than anything any company did. And what we, as decent people need to start doing is telling pirates "That's a really shitty thing to be doing."

Will it stop all of them? Of course not. Some people are pricks by nature. But most folks are generally pretty decent and try to avoid doing things that other people think are shitty.

The thing is, we don't need to stop all of them, we just need to get the numbers low enough that there's less and less justification for the DRM in the first place, because if we're smart, we'll be telling the companies "You know, all this DRM crap is a pretty shitty thing to be doing," at the same time, and trust me, developers *want* to be able to listen. You think they like having to code in circles to try and hamper pirates? Hell no.

So if we stop blaming companies for piracy and start blaming the pirates, if people start thinking, "What if my friends find out I didn't pay for this game?" instead of "I'll show those guys and their DRM.." then that means we win. Companies will be able to spend less resources trying to protect what's theirs, and more on making it the best it can be.

Thank you, every time piracy is brought up on the Internet I begin to think I'm the only person who can think on a scale larger than oneself. Unlike you, however, I'm not that optimistic about the kindness of strangers. One thing I've learned over my short life is that people will believe what is convenient to them. That is why they are such sophisticated apologetics around piracy. To admit that piracy is a problem would require that the individual, who was likely become accustomed to free stuff over the last 10 years, is to blame for a problem.

I'm not even sure how to make someone feel guilt for such a web of reassurance. The only solution to piracy I can think of would be what's happening to megaupload right now.

I don't know why I'm bothering speaking my mind in this issue. The best that could happen is that I am ignored.

No, the best that could happen (according to you) is what's happening to megaupload right now, which is WHAT IS happening. So you actually have nothing to complain about, because no matter what people say and wish for here, is *not* happening. I also wish for the easing of DRM. But I also don't have faith in people trying to follow a moral code or societal pressure.

And I also don't think people would just turn and say "don't shop from those pricks" if they put people through excessive measures to prevent theft, because what corporations do through society even better is marketing, and peer pressure...every kid wants those shoes as much as they want those games, they will go through to get it. They believe they need it, as much as people need to fly on airplanes despite the extra crap we have to do to get on one nowadays.

 

[GeneralFungi]

Even then I don't see how pirates provide a better service for games. For a legit game you obtain it retail or digital, download if digital, then install, and patch it.
Pirated games, you have to find it, download it, install it, and patch it, and run a crack.

It is pretty much the same damn thing.

Once you find it, download, install it, patch it, AND run a crack, then you never have to think of DRM again. Badly made DRM breathes down your neck and nags you into having a constant internet connection in order to play their games. I'd rather have to do a similar process then forget that DRM existed then have the burden of a badly built program dragging me and my gaming experience down.

 

[Kanatatsu]

That's why I get really annoyed whenever somebody gets up on their righteous horse and says, "It's the companies' fault!"

NO. IT. ISN'T.

Yes. It. Is.

See, the pirate doesn't have any obligation to the customer, because he's not providing a service. The company is providing a service, and it isn't my problem if other people pirate games.

No, it isn't. It's the pirates fault. It's the companies fault if people don't buy. However that is an entirely separate issue from if people pirate.

People not buying is directly related to how many people pirate.

People pirating is directly related to how palatable the companies make buying over pirating.

See how this is connected?

 

[Vault101]

while I was unsure about his previous video

YES FUCKING YES I agree 100%

I still dont like piracy. but its a vicious circle

 

[M.C.Dillinger]

No, the best that could happen (according to you) is what's happening to megaupload right now, which is WHAT IS happening. So you actually have nothing to complain about, because no matter what people say and wish for here, is *not* happening. I also wish for the easing of DRM. But I also don't have faith in people trying to follow a moral code or societal pressure.

And I also don't think people would just turn and say "don't shop from those pricks" if they put people through excessive measures to prevent theft, because what corporations do through society even better is marketing, and peer pressure...every kid wants those shoes as much as they want those games, they will go through to get it. They believe they need it, as much as people need to fly on airplanes despite the extra crap we have to do to get on one nowadays.

Wait, what? Someone responded to something post on the Internet? This might seem more confrontational than I would like but you seem to be agreeing with me but your tone suggests you disagree. I believe that I've stated that megaupload's upcoming trial is part of a solution and you seem to share my pessimism towards the populace.

Please forgive any awkwardness. I'm not accustomed to people interacting with me, I usually observe society from a distance. I'm more accustomed to writing a blog to an imaginary audience (http://mcdillinger.blogspot.com/) and writing a piece of Warcraft fan fiction at the speed of a ice glacier.

 

[M.C.Dillinger]

Sorry, double post.

 

[Doom-Slayer]

The simple reason they don't do more stuff like steam is look what happened with origin as soon as it was announced everyone came out and said they hated it and would never use it and just pirate EA games so I can see why publishers would be put off this kind of service.

The difference is, Origin didn't need to exist. Steam exists already.

That's how a competitive market works; one company sets up a business in a pre-existing market to try and get some of the profits from it. Should Microsoft not have bothered with making the Xbox, as it didn't need to exist, due to the Playstation 2 and Gamecube already existing? Of course not.

In a way, it should have been a good thing, as Steam hold a virtual monopoly over digital distribution for PC games. The problem is, Origin has nowhere near the level of good service and pricing that Steam offers currently.

QFT. THe main reason Origin failed, ignoring the EULA nonsense disconnects exclusives game etc etc, is that it has a bad lineup and nothing new or better to offer. Origin has nowhere near the games library that Steam does, and absolutely no new features that make it better. The Xbox worked because it was different, had new and interesting games, and wasn't trying to slot into the market 8 freaking years too late.

Wow..has it been 8 years since steam came out...wow..

OT: Love this video. I started off amongst most people as a bit of a hater, but Ive pretty quickly come around to these now. Very informative, now to send a link to every publisher on earth about this video.