Jimquisition: Sexual Failing

[Aardvaarkman]

How romances work in game is similar to how they work in real life. You usually can't get into a relationship with someone without being nice to them and buying them things.

Speak for yourself. I've been in plenty of relationships without having to buy things for the other person. In fact, they often buy me things.

As for being nice, shouldn't that be the baseline of normal human interaction? Unless someone has actively done you harm, why would you not be nice to anybody you meet?

Why the hell would you want to be in a relationship with someone you can't be nice to, or vice-versa?

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Get rid of the achievements for romance, then people will only do it because they want to.

 

[CBanana]

It's simple mathematical model really.

We have an argument that y people are predisposed to and we have a an argument that y+1 people are predisposed. To see if the amount of people predisposed to the argument is a factor, we'll make the amount of per person influence equal x which is some positive number.

The influence of the first argument is:
x * y = xy

The influence of the second argument is.
x * (y + 1) = xy + x

So in this case, the second argument affects the population x amount more showing that the second argument has more influence because more of the population is affected. If we assumed that the two arguments had different and unknown per person influences (where both influences were still positive numbers), it would still be more likely that the second argument is more effective as graphing f(x)= xy will show a lower line thatn f(x)= xy + x on any graph where x is a positive number and y is before graphing assigned a positive whole number.

What I'm arguing here is the value of X not the value of Y and the idea that X(sexism) > X(violence)

It probably isn't the same but the model still shows that the second argument skews higher based based on the part of the graph where X > 0.

Of course Y is going to play a factor in the end result of "Influenced People" provided the influence is > 0

Although come to think of it, I've previously just taken it on face value that Y(sexists) > Y(violent) but what evidence is there to back that up?

Pretty much any poll you look at will show that more people do not consider the genders equal compared to the percentage of the population based on statistics that commit violent crimes.

 

[Nurb]

I think this is another case people are being too sensitive about a subject just because it's in a video game.

Movies are far more guilty of putting sex, or tits, or man ass in a movie scene for the hell of it, and it doesn't affect the story or the characters long term most of the time.

I don't understand. It's not like bioware even shows anything besides people grinding in their undies, AND while R rated movies can show sex or nudity, a game would get banned/censored in Germany, Australia, and forced into an AO rating in the US. I'm surprised no one mentioned how groundbreaking the option to sleep with a transexual was in Dragon Age Origins actually was either.

And dammit if I wasn't right, it devolved into tumblr feminist gender politics in the middle. Some people actually "felt" something about the characters they chose to "woo" in Mass effect as they got into the story y'know, I really liked Samara's character and was extremely disappointed she wasn't an option (all this being mass effect 2 in my case). Same goes for Garrus while playing a male character, since I swing both ways.

But some sex in some games might be gratuitous and unrealistic, but I have to say "SO THE FUCK WHAT??", it's video games! A fantasy! In most games people don't expect or want realism, so why would gamers want 100% realistic relationship simulation all the time? Why are gamers bad people for wanting to pretend they're some powerful bad ass that does their thing and get a pretty girl for a few hours? Why do (male) gamers have to catch shit over fantasy? No one even gives Yaoi fangirls that much of a hassle.

Though I notice Jim didn't include any femshep relationship footage with jacob, Garrus or liara when giving his usual finger-waggling about this "nice guy frienzone" bullshit that developed on blogs not even 5 years ago.

 

[Smeatza]

A number of the complaints here seem to be more about an awkward intersection of mechanics and plot than about the maturity of any given scene.
And people are really over-exaggerating and over-simplifying the "sex as a reward" element of certain Bioware games.

It tickles me that those who take issue with sex not being treated in a mature enough manner are doing so because of their prudish and rather immature take on things.

 

[wulf3n]

It probably isn't the same but the model still shows that the second argument skews higher based based on the part of the graph where X > 0.

The model skews higher based on the assumptions that X is equivalent between Sexsim and Violence and that Y(sexist) > Y(violent). Neither of which are known, so the model doesn't really show anything of value.

Pretty much any poll you look at will show that more people do not consider the genders equal compared to the percentage of the population based on statistics that commit violent crimes.

Source?

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

I like your point, but you presented it pretty poorly.

For one, there's a difference between pandering and simplistic reward structure. Without a culmination scene in the ME games, I wouldn't know whether I had fully developed my relationship with the character. Yes, they should stop trying to pretend it's deep and important, but it also isn't as shit as you seem to think.

Second, your interpretation of the "Friend Zone" irked me a bit. True, a lot of men act exactly as you described. However, the world is in no way as black and white as you seem to present. Women take advantage of less dominate men by getting favors and the like from them presenting the exchange in the guise of friendship. This happens. If you deny it, that's a fairly naive stance to have.

Now, before people jump on me for being woman hating scum, let me clarify that this isn't always the case and in fact usually isn't. But it still does happen and is typically classified as the "Friend Zone"

Alternatively, the "Friend Zone" can simply be a miscommunication. The man believes the two are in a relationship. The woman does not.

Other than that, sure, decent episode.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

When American women expect men to pay for everything the only way to start a relationship with them is to spend money on them.

Yup, that sure is "all American women"
It's like you got your world view from a bad 90's stand-up comic or something.

Women, with their vaginas and whatnot. I mean, come on, what's that all about? Did I mention that airline food is generally overpriced, and of poor quality?

 

[wulf3n]

Where did people say violence wasn't a problem? =?

Here's on thread [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.119712-Poll-Do-video-games-premote-violence] on the Escapist dedicated to just that.

Sure the Jimquistion talks about sexism more than violence, but it's not like violence has stopped becoming a talking point. I mean look at the reaction to Man Of Steel]/b]. Its absurd amount of destruction and the film's seemingly blase reaction toward it raised more than a few eyebrows around the movie-verse...but as for games I dunno. GTA V is a popular target right now so there's always that ^_^

It's not about the lack of discussion but rather the "quick defend games when accused of promoting violence" attitude that disappears as soon the accusation turns to sexism.

As for any definitive "links" or "correlations", I think it eventually does fall onto a person by person case and how mentally strong they are from seeing what is and isn't acceptable behavior. I mean, remember http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SLDgPbjp0Mthis little gem[/url] from last year? And how Beardy McBeardson tried to justify his actions with the Douchebag Quote of 2012:

Rea: Can I get my Street Fighter without sexual harassment?

Bakhtanians: You can't. You can't because they're one and the same thing. This is a community that's, you know, 15 or 20 years old, and the sexual harassment is part of a culture, and if you remove that from the fighting game community, it's not the fighting game community--it's StarCraft.

Bakthanians is a tool that thinks a woman only exists for them to make cat calls at and drool over how "sexy" characters like Chun-li or Cammy are. Characters that are usually framed up as "ooo hey boys, check out mah sexay boday!! [http://youtu.be/tscawF9bSiQ?t=2m19s[/url], which makes dudes like him think "Well this must be way women should be viewed if I'm seeing it portrayed in this light", which leads to them throwing a tantrum when someone dare disrupt their status quo by the shit they spew.

Maybe that answers your question...? I dunno, probably not

That's a correlation. I was thinking more along the lines of Dragon Age and Mass Effect or even DOA:XBV but evidence is evidence.

edit: Although the sexual harassment isn't within the game technically but whatever.

 

[Annihilist]

Actually I've always regarded the "friend zone" as somewhat genuine. It's a situation where you are really good friends with someone you want to have a relationship with, to the point where any further advancement may risk the future of the friendship. What you described, Jim, is not quite what I would have defined it as.

 

[Nurb]

When American women expect men to pay for everything the only way to start a relationship with them is to spend money on them.

Yup, that sure is "all American women"
It's like you got your world view from a bad 90's stand-up comic or something.

That's still the expectation as a rule though, dude. There aren't many women initiating contact and asking for a first date and paying for it.

 

[Saltyk]

So, if Jim is on Youtube, now, doesn't that already count as porn?

Anyway, I can't say that I disagree, nor do I feel that strong on the point. Honestly, I remember that Dragon Age Origins did it fairly well. Each of your romance partners had their own issues and the relationships seemed to be more than merely awkward sex scenes. Morrigan initially just wanted a fling, but as she started developing feelings, it scared her and she actually wanted out of it. But you could tell she wasn't entirely happy with that. And Alistair will actually sacrifice himself for a female warden that he loves. To me those were more than merely there for the sake of having sex scenes.

That being said, Mass Effect always seemed to treat it as the end goal. There really didn't seem to be any noticeable effects for having a relationship with a character. It certainly didn't affect anything in the game's ending.

As for Fable, last I checked, your spouse was property in that game. Like a lamp or chair.

Aye aye... I enjoy romance in games, but the sex scenes themselves are usually cringe worthy at best. SWTOR has the characters kiss, then a fade to black, and it is just as well really. That said, romance and search for love is such a vital part of the human experience, simply foregoing it makes no sense either. I just wish we could have someone making video games who could, you know, ACTUALLY WRITE.

Your avatar is Suikoden 2's hero, Nanami, and Jowy. I just felt like pointing that out as I love that game.