Jimquisition: The Positive Side of Mass Effect 3's Ending Drama

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Bonecrusher

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Nov 20, 2009
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it is funny that jimquisition defended bioware and blamed "the fans", again.
"you can never satisfy the fans".

another funny part is, today's american media like gamespot really likes trying to show bioware as innocent in every stage, and jim seems like following that trend.

at least he didn't called the critics of the game as "underdeveloped homophobes".

ZeroMachine said:
You know, the entire stink about the ME3 ending has had me royally pissed off. Not that I hated it, but that it turned a huge chunk of the gaming community into one gigantic collective whiny *****.

This?

This made me feel a lot better about it.
if you criticize the most popular game of the year in america, it will lead to some new american gamers call you as "whiny *****".

that's why we don't get good things.
 

Simonoly

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Oct 17, 2011
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I've already written 6 new and entirely different endings for myself which do not include Space Jesus or colour coded explosions. Now I'm happy
:)
 
Aug 17, 2009
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artanis_neravar said:
That doesn't say you won't have to choose between ending A, B, or C just that you won't be trying to figure out which one that you got.

What was said, bold-faced, was that the endings were bucking the two typical kinds of ending: Unchanging and End-Game Decision style. It's true to a degree, by the fact that it's both a straight-up Deus Ex-style End-Game Decision ending, with such little variation as to make the endings almost Unchanging. It honest to God smacks of Poochie from The Simpsons.


irishda said:
This is kind of why Jim Sterling made the point in an earlier article that gamers who aren't considered "hardcore", who don't pay attention to who makes what, are smarter than the more active crowd. How many times have I read promises from devs about "what this game was going to do" or "how blown away gamers would be"? It's all hype from people who truly believe it's not hype because this is their baby, their project.

In the end it's all grand ideals tempered by finite resources, and no game ever lives up to the hype that the pre-gaming communities pile onto it. I can only hope this is a lesson to many Mass Effect fans. Take what people say about anything, not just games but movies, books, shows, anything, with a grain of salt until you experience it for yourself.

I see a lot of people complain about what they were promised, but how many people complain who didn't listen to any promises?

First of all, thank you for insulting my intelligence.

Secondly, I am familiar with the thesis in question, and I'd like to tackle your use of it here:

- The core of the thesis is that the utilitarian nature of Free-to-Play nickel and dime purchases are more money savvy than buying full retail games.

- It was also largely a defense of those who derive enjoyment from these kinds of games in the face of scorn from the "Hardcore" crowd, which has, to my knowledge across 5 significant gaming websites, not been the case in this issue.

- A trait which Jim pointed to as intelligent on the part of "Casual" gamers is that they take more ownership of their experience with the games, as opposed to letting Head Office dictate the course of their fun. You know. The thing that this whole issue revolves around?

- And while all of this is well and good, his thesis weighed heavily on the aspects of a game's gameplay, not its narrative. He many times used the parable of leveling up on a Facebook game alongside leveling up in Final Fantasy to point out that there is nothing inherently superior in one method of enjoying a game over another.

And now on to the "Grain of Salt" comment. Bioware, until recently, had earned the kind of respect that few developers truly do. They earned their consumers' expectations by meeting them time and time again. It is why it pains so many people to have the mountain of problems with the ending that they do.

In essence, it's a...


...Of both Bioware's fans, and the company themselves. They are better than the ending to Mass Effect 3. They know it. And if you look past the publicity and pundits, you can see that Bioware is being ripped apart by EA.

And if you'd like to discuss the philosophy of "If you think everything is sh*t, you'll never be disappointed", we can do this all day, brother.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Apr 18, 2011
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While I love the show, and genuinely respect Jim... He really needs to stop strawmaning the Fallout fans who didn't like Fallout 3.

My issues with the game had nothing to do with it being in first person. Would I have preferred an isometric view? Of course, but I was fine with it being a first person RPG. The problem is that it was poorly written, and shallow. When you compare it to the depth of the original two games, it just falls flat in almost every way.
 
Mar 9, 2012
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I don't see why I should have any reason to complain about the ending of your episode, Jim. Unlike a certain game developer, you didn't advertise to me that my input would change the course of it, or that it could end in a multitude of different conclusions based on my choices.

You buying into the whole "you-are-only-upset-because-you-didn't-get-a-happy-ending" straw man, however, that is a different story.
 

General Vengeance

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Aug 26, 2009
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The only problem with thumbing your nose at your fanbase is they are the one's with the money, and will buy every stupid plastic toy, poster, soft drink with their hero/game/etc plastered all over it. An easy gravy train to a mountain of cash. Once you betray your fickle fan base they'll turn on you like a mad dog.
 

Abedeus

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Sep 14, 2008
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Fr said:
anc[is]
Abedeus said:
Fr said:
anc[is]I was honestly expecting you to just troll and flame bait for 5 minutes. Thank you for not doing that.
He already did that once on youtube.
Do you have a link?
http://www.destructoid.com/raging-mass-effect-3-fans-do-something-for-charity-223811.phtml

Don't know why I thought I saw it on youtube. Beats me.

If this is not a troll bait by a "professional journalist" then I don't know what is.
 

Incomer

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Sep 15, 2009
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Oh dude, way to dodge the problem :D
You don't give a shit - great so from neutral point of view, do you believe that the ending is anywhere around the same lvl as the rest of the Bioware usual scriptwriting?
And you have to realize that ME was something new and exciting, unlike bad ending in Final Fantasies (where each game is pretty much stand alone product), this one craps over much much more spend time.
 

CD-R

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Mar 1, 2009
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You the funny thing is it's not that hard to do endings that tie everything together and explain how the players actions affected the world. All you need is a series of pictures of what you're talking about. And a narrator (preferably of the Ron Pearlman variety) describing what's going on. It worked very well in Fallout, Arcanum, and Dragon Age Origins, I don't see why they couldn't have done that here.

Example


That's all you need.
 

Fuhjem

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Jan 17, 2009
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The Jimprocess.

>Take popular topic.
>View it from different perspective and understand it in a way people haven't thought of before.
>Rant about it while being incredibly sexy.
>The world is now in a better place.
>???? (in this case, get all that sweet, sweet escapist money by posting it in video form)
>PROFIT!!!
 

Sonic Doctor

Time Lord / Whack-A-Newbie!
Jan 9, 2010
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I agree that the take back Mass Effect people are bat-shit insane. Though I really don't agree that such craziness is good for the industry. People looking in from the the outside will see that while many of the crazies complaining are adults playing the video games, they will see them as adults that have problems because they are adults that are blubbering like school children with hurt knees.

So there will probably be a new campaign against gaming with the slogan, "Adults that dedicate themselves to gaming become mental childish whiners."
 

Fr]anc[is

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May 13, 2010
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Abedeus said:
http://www.destructoid.com/raging-mass-effect-3-fans-do-something-for-charity-223811.phtml

Don't know why I thought I saw it on youtube. Beats me.

If this is not a troll bait by a "professional journalist" then I don't know what is.
Oh that, yes I saw that. That and all the other ME3 troll stuff was really bothering me. I figured Jim hates everything else about the industry, its odd he'd support this bullshit.
 

Bonecrusher

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Nov 20, 2009
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Abedeus said:
http://www.destructoid.com/raging-mass-effect-3-fans-do-something-for-charity-223811.phtml

Don't know why I thought I saw it on youtube. Beats me.

If this is not a troll bait by a "professional journalist" then I don't know what is.
I really don't know why he is on the side of Bioware every time, and protecting Mass Effect against players that disliked the game.

Is it a part of "being cynical", if so, I wish he also was cynical towards the companies.

Is it just to increase ratings by receiving more hatemails? As I said, I don't know.

The reasons why we didn't like the ending: http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/bt/aj/topreasons/34623-why-we-hate-me3s-ending
And no, the reason is not because of we are homophobes (as some Bioware fans continously describe the people that criticize the game)
 

Fearzone

Boyz! Boyz! Boyz!
Dec 3, 2008
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I've been enjoying all the drama.

I finally broke down and YouTube'd the ending and, well, I gotta say, I can understand the outrage of Mass Effect fans.

It was trying to be profound, but that was its biggest failing, since thermodynamics tells us that perfect order in a system is nihilism, which is not something life of any form should aspire to, or at least it is unsustainable if it does.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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Eric the Orange said:
Huh, that's odd, it wasn't like that last week. Some kind of administrator wizardry is at foot methinks.
"A Wizard Did It" is always a safe bet.

Jimothy Sterling said:
If you guys crack this case, you get to find out where Jesus' body is buried.
Trick question. He's living in my attic.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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Incomer said:
Oh dude, way to dodge the problem :D
You don't give a shit - great so from neutral point of view, do you believe that the ending is anywhere around the same lvl as the rest of the Bioware usual scriptwriting?
And you have to realize that ME was something new and exciting, unlike bad ending in Final Fantasies (where each game is pretty much stand alone product), this one craps over much much more spend time.
"Not giving a shit" is not a neutral perspective.
 

Sonic Doctor

Time Lord / Whack-A-Newbie!
Jan 9, 2010
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Abedeus said:
http://www.destructoid.com/raging-mass-effect-3-fans-do-something-for-charity-223811.phtml

Don't know why I thought I saw it on youtube. Beats me.

If this is not a troll bait by a "professional journalist" then I don't know what is.
While it looks like trolling, I see it as a professional response that is stating the facts.

Yeah, the whiners donated money to a charity, but then they tooted their own horn, "look at us, aren't we special. You people are all ugly for not singing our praises".

Jim was in the right with that article. The ME3 ending whiners were using the charity drive as a point to show that they weren't entitled and then they turned around and demanded Destructoid report about it, in a sense "entitled" to a report.
 

Pandabearparade

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Mar 23, 2011
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Zachary Amaranth said:
Anyhow, this is a pretty good point. People are pissed because they are so invested. That really is important.
They're also pissed because Bioware outright lied to them about what to expect. They didn't say the ending would be mysterious and deep, requiring deep meditation (and DLC) to discern. They claimed it would be an ending that wraps up your specific mass effect and give closure for the series.

Obviously that didn't happen, and while I find the ending to be one of the funniest damned things I've seen so far this year, I can certainly relate to people being pissed off. They were just told a massive pork pie.
 

Mylinkay Asdara

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Nov 28, 2010
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I don't know - liked the episode and all, but one point is somewhat sticking in my craw - I was rather impressed with the "donate to charity to protest" route that the Retake ME3 people went as being the opposite of infantile. At the very least, even if the effort to get the ending turned into something that resembles closure fails, a good thing has been done by way of the money that will help Child's Play do their good work. Granted, the term "Retake" would be asinine and a sign of sure entitlement by those seeking this change IF it wasn't a play on the words of the advertising campaign launched by EA to promote the game. There is one thread on the Bioware forums that is acting as something of the "master thread" collection of the whole movement that is actually very grounded in respectful dialog about the issue, but it's also true that some people are letting their emotional reaction (and I sympathize with them even as I shake my head, because I too have found myself in the stages of grief) get a bit out of control in public. Flame war never changes, I guess.

I'll be honest, I was a little surprised by the ambiguous disregard shown this episode when Jim has been outspoken against some of the other antics of EA and others inflicting hardship on customers - and I would consider withholding the ending (if there is one) for ransom of a DLC price tag a hardship equal to some of those other issues. Nevertheless, we're all going to have to wait and see on this one and it certainly does show the growth of the medium when this type of reaction can be provoked.
 

viranimus

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Nov 20, 2009
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I would be inclined to agree with your point if I was actually able to hear the point over the sound of grating nails over a chalkboard over pronouncing it Con-Trov-o-See, instead of Con-tra-verse-ee

Speeka dah english ya mook!

In all seriousness, Actually on the point bringing up Batman brings up a good point. Where is the backlash at the Arkham city ending? How dare rocksteady allow the joker to "die". How dare they arm batman with a sword at one point and a friggen gun of all things (granted its a pulse rifle, but still) So everybody together now, lets start a campaign to demand Arkham city be remade all together because its not how I think it should be.