Jimquisition: The Positive Side of Mass Effect 3's Ending Drama

[Sesambrot]

Nice episode, I think Jim's right, so thanks for that!
well, not really supprising though, considering it's Jim we're talking about

On the whole ME3 ending discussion:

I suppose this applies to both parties though...
What I don't get is why everyone seems to think that the only reason for people complaining is: "they didn't get the ending they wanted!" disregarding that the fans are mostly complaining about different things.

No, I'm not going to list them again, it's been done in thousands of different topics all across the internet already, and it's always ignored. Instead of actually discussing points that make sense people always turn to making fun of, what isn't more than just a simple oppinion someone shared, that being the nature of discussions on the internet though.

A: *reasoning for why the ending is bad, inconsistent, not what promised, blahdibluhdiblah...*
B: "yeah, the ending was a pretty bad piece of shitty crap shit fart piss!"
C: " (Quote B) It's not all ponies and rainbows all the time, duh hfglbdahgdifn!!!!!11111"
---> A get's drowned in a flamewar betwee B and C
once that's cools down, it all starts over...

Doesn't anyone else see the vicious circle this whole discussion has turned into?

Oh hold on, I'm just going to quote myself on this:

... that being the nature of discussions on the internet...

Thank you for your attention,
Sesambrot out.


On a side note;
why is this vastly different from Batman Arkham City's ending you ask?
Well, basically because they didn't promise you to deliver pure awesomeness to your doorstep, then shat in a paperbag, set it on fire and rang your doorbell, that's why!

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

You know there's an "old school" thing you can do if you don't like a stories outcome. It's called "fan fiction".

I challenge any of the Mass Effect 3 whiners to write some and then have others scrutinise it.
Better yet I challenge all the Mass Effect 3 whiners to agree on one ME3 fan fiction ending outcome. Let's just see how far they get with that

To be honest it'd be an improvement on their time usage and much more productive than making silly and ridiculous groups like the Retake ME thing.

It's actually interesting that you mentioned this.

Last summer, I was running a Mass Effect game for my spouse (who hadn't played ME before). My spouse rolled up a Shepard, and I played the various crew members, and ran a game that followed the plots of ME1 and ME2.

So, as the Collector Base exploded, my spouse wasn't done - so I got to make up ME3 nine months early. Using spoilers, rumors, and that first trailer (and the announcement about the Prothean DLC) I wrote my own ME3 story.

Obviously there were some major differences. Particularly since the whole Crucible thing was kept under wraps surprisingly well. Also, I was sure that Arrival, the ME1 DLC, and Tali's recruitment mission were foreshadowing the use of exploding solar systems as a battle tactic to eliminate Reapers.

Anyway, the point is that I already HAD "my" ending to ME3. I wrote it. And I think it was pretty good.

When I got to the ending in actual ME3... actually, I was kicking myself for not coming up with some of those ideas. And, at the same time, I was also annoyed that Bioware didn't follow up on some of the stuff they (seemed to be) foreshadowing. I also wasn't a huge fan of the Matrix like bit... mostly cause I didn't like the Matrix films.

In the end, I didn't love the ending, but I didn't hate it either. It seemed to waste some of the potential, but then so did my ending (by missing out on what should have been an obvious solution).

Do I want a new ending to the game? No, not really. Because that's the thing - I already took a stab at a better ending, and it was only sort of better. I don't know that there is a perfect ending to this. I don't know that there could be.

 

[Smurf McSmurfington]

Truth be told, now that I've had time to think things over, the only real problem I have with the ending is the lack of a fucking epilogue, so we don't see what happens next, how your choices affected things in the long run.
Seriously, that's the only real problem with ME3's ending.

But as is the case at least some of the time, you do have a point there, mr. Sterling.

 

[Irridium]

And that this is the first episode put up under his Forum commenting profile instead of his usual one for putting up videos.

If you look back at prior videos, they're currently posted by "Jimothy Sterling." Looking at his profile, this account is listed as the one to have done the prior "articles," too.

So....

If you guys crack this case, you get to find out where Jesus' body is buried.

It's buried in your basement, isn't it.

 

[Fappy]

While we're on opposite sides of the debate I thoroughly enjoyed this episode. Good job Jim.

 

[Eric Morales]

Even when I generally agree with Sterling, I always sort of want to punch him.
Remarkably, I found his point so intriguing that I almost DIDN'T feel the desire to punch him until the very end, so I guess that makes this a good video?

It reminds me of Moviebob's recent video on The Phantom Menace where he argued that the Phantom Menace, while not especially good, was only reviled because fans had unreasonable expectations. Its true that the expectations of fans were too high in the case of Mass Effect (I for one wouldn't have been completely satisfied unless my Shepherd was crowned Emperor of the Known Universe) it's also true that on its own merits the ME3 ending was not especially good. The ending doesn't invalidate Mass Effects 1 and 2 (or even 99% of Mass Effect 3) a satisfying ending can make the whole worth more than the sum of its parts (see inFamous 2, Chrono Trigger, Dragon Age) I can't help but feel that we had a missed opportunity in Mass Effect.

 

[Something Amyss]

Anyhow, this is a pretty good point. People are pissed because they are so invested. That really is important.

They're also pissed because Bioware outright lied to them about what to expect. They didn't say the ending would be mysterious and deep, requiring deep meditation (and DLC) to discern. They claimed it would be an ending that wraps up your specific mass effect and give closure for the series.

Obviously that didn't happen, and while I find the ending to be one of the funniest damned things I've seen so far this year, I can certainly relate to people being pissed off. They were just told a massive pork pie.

And at the same time, if people weren't invested in such a story, there wouldn't be this huge outrage.

 

[Loonerinoes]

Having enjoyed the ending thoroughly contrary to the majority (Yes, been a fan since the first game - insult away as to how I'm not a ***True Fan*** for liking it or whatever), this video doesn't soothe any of my pains - it instead makes the rage TWICE as fun for me to watch!

Thank you Jim! I thank God...for you!

 

[Guardian of Nekops]

Bioware promised that the ending to this game would take into account all the choices that the player made along the way, not just in this installment but in the first two as well. That clearly, clearly did not happen. The vast majority of variables involved, from the major conflicts that should have been addressed and given closure down to the little issue of who was in your party at the end, and should therefore be unavailable to be elsewhere, were simply discarded, and made no difference whatsoever.

This is not an opinion, this is a mathematically provable fact; what they promised was not delivered.

What was delivered was not even the same genre of thing as what was promised... it isn't a case of shooting for the stars and falling short in some particulars (as such ambition could have been forgiven... people understand budget and time constraints). All these variables are tracked and calculated and not only matter, but matter beautifully until the last fifteen minutes of gameplay... at which point the player is cast onto the three-option railroad through nonsense land. Not only that, but the three options share some REMARKABLY similar scenery, and all three tracks end without giving the player even the foggiest notion of what happened to the universe at large, what the outcomes of their choices were or even what the outcome of that final, forced choice was. All you have is the word of a character you met minutes before, little better than reading the labels on the buttons you're pressing and hoping they are accurate.

The ending to Mass Effect 3 is not of a piece with the rest of the franchise... it swerves sharply and all too briefly into left field, without proper setup, explanation, or closure. Everything, EVERYTHING hangs in the balance on those last fifteen minutes and no matter what you choose, you don't win, you don't lose, you don't come to a draw or a conclusion of any kind because you don't know anything about what happens.

All of which is to say, really, that this is about a lot more than not liking the direction Bioware went with their story.

 

[Murmillos]

I disagree to the point with Jim where people are unhappy because the game didn't end the way they wanted it to end. I mean, there will always be that slight disconnect between how the game ends and how you thought it could have ended. You'll always have the feeling of; "What happened with X?" or, "Z just seemed, pointless". But over all, as long as vast majority of people getting a feeling of "closure" or a ending that is 80% fulfilling or meaningful to the story, people will be over all happy and content.

ME3 provides none of that. It rips you from all connection and enjoyment of your accomplishments. Everything that you worked for, decisions you were making just was sort of tossed in the garbage.
The ending of ME3 boils down to how much War Resources you were willing to grind for, which leads you to a ending that was in every way disconnected from the core of the game - choice. Even the indoctrination theory has its own set of serious issues to contend with.

Endings that at least end to the values of the core of the game still can end up letting people go away happy, even if it wasn't their version of the ending. ME3 fails on every sense of that respect.

 

[Aureliano]

I absolutely disagree with you here, Jim. Those Lost fans are clearly both mental and schizophrenic.

I vote that this episode's TRUE ending involves Jim fighting and then having sex with a T-Rex.

 

[artanis_neravar]

anc[is]I was honestly expecting you to just troll and flame bait for 5 minutes. Thank you for not doing that.

He already did that once on youtube.

Interesting thoughts. I still didn't like the ending, though.

never promised you a different ending to the one you got.

[edit] someone enlighten me: what ending was promised and where?
(sounds a bit strange off the bat - divulging an ending to a game before it's release...)

Well, let's just put it this way:

Spoiler

If you need proof that he actually said that: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/01/10/mass1525-effect-3-cas5ey-fdsafdhudson-interviewae.aspx?PostPageIndex=2

Ok, re-read that quote and tell me where he says you won't be picking from ending A,B,or C. He just says that you won't be able to say which ending you got, which is true because you directly choose which ending is your ending.

I think YOU should re-read that quote. He said that there won't be a situation where you can pick A, B, C and name them.

We can name them.

Or we can give a quote where they promise 16 different endings. Even if you consider 3 Red endings ("Good", Bad, Vaporization) and 2 blue endings, that's 6 endings total (5 + 1 green).

No he said "It?s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C." Tell me where it says there won't be an A,B,C choice. All he said is that it is not like the traditional game ending where you got this ending or that ending. You chose your ending, you didn't get anything. Also a quick google search gives this

Spoiler

Collector?s Base Saved

Readiness Rating < 1750 ? Earth is destroyed regardless of whatever decisions you made.
Readiness Rating 1750 ? Choose to Save the Reapers and the Earth will be saved.
Readiness Rating 2050 ? Choose to control a Reaper and the Earth will be saved.
Readiness Rating 2350 ? Choose to destroy the Repears and the Earth will be somewhat destroyed
Readiness Rating 2650 ? Choose to destroy the Reapers and Earth is destroyed.
Readiness Rating 2800 ? Earth and the Galaxy will be saved once you?re able to create synergy
Readiness Rating 4000 ? Choose to destroy the Reapers and Save Anderson to see Shepard lives.
Readiness Rating 5000 ? Choose to destroy the reapers and not Save Anderson to see Shepard lives.
Collector?s Base Destroyed

Readiness Rating < 1750 ? Earth is destroyed regardless of whatever decisions you made.
Readiness Rating 1750 ? Choose to control a Reaper and the Earth will be destroyed.
Readiness Rating 1900 ? Choose to destroy the Repears and the Earth will be somewhat destroyed
Readiness Rating 2350 ? Choose to control a Reaper and the Earth will be saved.
Readiness Rating 2650 ? Choose to destroy the Reapers and Earth will be saved.
Readiness Rating 2800 ? Earth and the Galaxy will be saved once you?re able to create synergy
Readiness Rating 4000 ? Choose to destroy the Reapers and Save Anderson to see Shepard lives.
Readiness Rating 5000 ? Choose to destroy the reapers and not Save Anderson to see Shepard lives.

That would be 16 ending.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Lucas is the ultimate troll. As soon as people get over the prequels. Boom....release them with additions. Then all in 3d. You wonder what he will do next? Release the original trilogy where Luke is played by a Labrador?

OT. I'm ok with people being disappointed by the ending of ME3. But demanding it change? That's wrong, isn't that censorship? Isn't that against what everyone bitched about Lucas making changes to his movies?

 

[Saulkar]

A most surprising and informative albiet lil depressing episode. On the other hand if ME3 ended like this then I would die happy.

 

[artanis_neravar]

I disagree to the point with Jim where people are unhappy because the game didn't end the way they wanted it to end. I mean, there will always be that slight disconnect between how the game ends and how you thought it could have ended. You'll always have the feeling of; "What happened with X?" or, "Z just seemed, pointless". But over all, as long as vast majority of people getting a feeling of "closure" or a ending that is 80% fulfilling or meaningful to the story, people will be over all happy and content.

But you see, this shows that Jim is right.
1. You wanted the game to have some closure, or something what was fulfilling or meaningful.
2. Mass Effect, IYO, didn't have this ending.
3. You are upset because of 2
4. Therefore using 1 and 2 - It didn't have the ending you wanted.
5. Therefore using 3 and 4 - You are upset because Mass Effect didn't have the ending you wanted.

 

[Sesambrot]

and here we go again...

did anyone else notice that except for one person, everyone who posted on this page of the topic pretty much said the exact same thing?

Folks listen, I for one agree, but this is becoming slightly ridiculous!
Somehow I get the feeling that this is how it has to be though...

 

[Xman490]

I heard that the ending is rather sad, with something along the lines of Earth being blown up or Shepard dying for it. Frankly, that's the kind of ending that a novel would have, considering some of the unpopular, yet critically acclaimed, novels I read for my collegiate American Literature class.

Examples of narratives ending on depressing notes include the movie Black Swan and Ernest Hemingway's Snows of Kilimanjaro.

 

[Enkidu88]

I heard that the ending is rather sad, with something along the lines of Earth being blown up or Shepard dying for it. Frankly, that's the kind of ending that a novel would have, considering some of the unpopular, yet critically acclaimed, novels I read for my collegiate American Literature class.

Examples of narratives ending on depressing notes include the movie Black Swan and Ernest Hemingway's Snows of Kilimanjaro.

No one is pissed off at the ending because it's sad (or at least not the majority.) I went into Mass Effect 3 fully expecting a bad ending, because I didn't really see a way to beat the Reapers head on. In fact I think an ending showing a valiant last stand against the Reapers would have been awesome.

What we got instead was an ending that came straight out of left field, basically introducing God in the final minutes, and then telling you to pick button A, B or C. You're literature degree would be appalled at the complete breakdown in narrative structure, pacing, and overall stupidity of the ending.

In short, we're fine with a sad ending. We're not fine with an ending that makes no sense.

 

[olicon]

I certainly didn't mind ME's ending because of the way things pan out. I think it is sensible for the story to end that way. But the palette swap does tick me off as being a smidgen lazy.

Also, you can't compare Arkham Asylum (an action adventure game) to an RPG like ME. People don't go to Arkham looking for stories--but they got more than they expected, which is why the game was so celebrated. ME...well, I think someone over at RPGamer puts it best--"The ending can be summed up in 2 words: Buy DLC". It's just greedy and shameless.