I agree totally. The basic idea of mercs who disguise themselves as nuns is fine, but the sheer impracticality of their outfits is ridiculous.Vampire cat said:
Jimquisition: The Positive Side to Punching Nuns
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
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Your comment is hot on so many levels. Just letting you know.Vampire cat said:
Ego boost +1 to you.
I dunno, if I was a girl I might feel this is another thing that is excluding me from something I enjoy.Iron Lightning said:
I'm not saying either you or they are wrong or right but I don't think it's just hollow prudishness that motivates opposition to it.
I've never played Hitman and this isn't a position I fully supportAbandon4093 said:
Part of the problem is the manner of dress. Saying it's like men being beaten misses the point. It would be like men who were designed to be appealing to women as much as possible bein beaten or it to be equivalent.
However there is quite possible that there is another dimension to this which thinks it's fine to see men being beaten but is uncomfortable to see women being hurt.
And that is the last I will say on this, I don't want to have to be forced to argue for something I don't support.
I keep meaning to see Kill Bill but never get around to it... If it's anything like the trailer, I guess I need to get a move on and watch it!Abandon4093 said:
I consider myself somewhat female and the trailer is fucking awesome, lol. It'd be just as awesome if it was a lone girl against a group of men in sexy outfits.370999 said:
For whatever my opinion is worth.
This is a contradiction.
People want that all are equal,
if all are equal then it doesn't matter.
Why can men be killed in the thousand but when women die its wrong?
The people who are going apeshit over this trailer go crazy cause
women are killed? They should get anfry bacause "anyone" not just woman die.
They should hate all violance, not this.
Actually what they do is racism in another way.
Just think of the movie "300".
How those warriors get killed. And how graphic they showed this.
Where is the difference?
This reminds of the southpark episode with the flag.
The children don't get the problem cause they do not know
what racism means.
People want that all are equal,
if all are equal then it doesn't matter.
Why can men be killed in the thousand but when women die its wrong?
The people who are going apeshit over this trailer go crazy cause
women are killed? They should get anfry bacause "anyone" not just woman die.
They should hate all violance, not this.
Actually what they do is racism in another way.
Just think of the movie "300".
How those warriors get killed. And how graphic they showed this.
Where is the difference?
This reminds of the southpark episode with the flag.
The children don't get the problem cause they do not know
what racism means.
Actually, yes. Quite a few critics (and myself) thought that the oversexualisation of Sucker Punchs maincharacters was undermining the point the movie was trying to make.Shameless said:
I want to say another thing here.
Well, a couple, really.
1. People have objected to this sort of thing for year. It's just that they were met with the ever reasonable gamer boilerplates of "shut the fuck up, ******" or "it doesn't bother me, so fuck off."
2. I think one of the more telling issues is how people can look at this trailer and still not get why "girls" are put off from gaming. It's not really the sexy outfits or the violence against women, but a weird sort of gestalt. This kind of sums of gaming attitudes towards the fairer sex in less than a couple of minutes. And that people will bend over backwards in an effort to defend the trailer is indicative that people don't seem to get it at all.
At the same time people strive to find a place among more respected media as "art," our collective reaction to complaints by the larger community is still a rather juvenile "STFU ******." The response that the trailer has garnered defending it isn't much different, if at all, from the recent argument that sexual harassment is part of the fighting game culture (so what that guy did was totally okay), applied to a broader market.
Well, a couple, really.
1. People have objected to this sort of thing for year. It's just that they were met with the ever reasonable gamer boilerplates of "shut the fuck up, ******" or "it doesn't bother me, so fuck off."
2. I think one of the more telling issues is how people can look at this trailer and still not get why "girls" are put off from gaming. It's not really the sexy outfits or the violence against women, but a weird sort of gestalt. This kind of sums of gaming attitudes towards the fairer sex in less than a couple of minutes. And that people will bend over backwards in an effort to defend the trailer is indicative that people don't seem to get it at all.
At the same time people strive to find a place among more respected media as "art," our collective reaction to complaints by the larger community is still a rather juvenile "STFU ******." The response that the trailer has garnered defending it isn't much different, if at all, from the recent argument that sexual harassment is part of the fighting game culture (so what that guy did was totally okay), applied to a broader market.
Aw, what. I totally wish that was in SRTT now! You've ruined the game for me </3Zachary Amaranth said:
I'm not suggesting all girls are going to be against it automatically or that it's wrong to find it cool. I really like 300 and a lot of people view that as a modern fascist film.Grey Day for Elcia said:
Just that I don't think opposition to it should be brushed off. As Jim said at the very least it can help make people more aware to other people's feelings.
Concerning the "violence against women" side of this debate; how long have women been present in the (American) army now? I can't for the life of me remember if I've ever seen a women portrayed as a regular (not important for the plot) soldier in either MW2, BF3 (only modern titles of CoD and BF I've played) or any other FPS. If you argue against violence towards women in war, stealth, whatever games, you should re-evaluate your standpoint, and simply argue against violence in general. Seeing as how that's never going to happen, how about giving both sexes (and all the genders) a fair trial?
Disclaimer:...you know what? I'm pretty sure everyone's mature enough not to assume I'm pro domestic violence.
Disclaimer:...you know what? I'm pretty sure everyone's mature enough not to assume I'm pro domestic violence.
Mmm. I don't think anything should be brushed off (well, I lie; I won't listen to anyone argue for paedophilia) I was just sharing my perspective. I totally agree with you and Jim (for the first time ever) on this issue.370999 said:
But I'm not really caring enough of it all to get that involved. I like the trailer, I think it's sexy and cool. I'd probably talk to someone about it if they brought it up, but I'll just let the wider community talk it out.
captcha: off the record
I am totally not recording this. Please speak louder and into my bow-tie.
My problem with the trailer is that their latex outfit doesn't make sense in the series. Hitman games always had sexuality but this is just simple fan service. It's just out of place for the games. My biggest problem with the trailer is the shooting fest. Hitman games are about killing some stealthy and not just agent47 shooting everything that moves. I hope it's just the trailer and that the actual game won't be like that.
Anyway, the media has always done this. Men and women, we're always told how we should be. There is always a standard type. Things that society like, or at least the majority might enjoy. If the things that is generally considered how we should be change, then the depiction of men and women will change as well.
As an example, in western games men are often portrayed as gritty, bulky and badass. Those are the type of men that is considered to be well like by the target audience, so they use them often.
In Japanese games, the guys are often boys which look young and feminine and pale. There is a different target audience in Japan, different type of men are considered to be good characters, so they use them often.
Companies want to make money and they want the lowest risk possible. That means, if they have something that works, they stick to it. These depictions of men and women work for now, so they always use them. If suddenly they sell much less with these types, they'll switch to something else that works but there will always be specific types of men and women which will be used most.
Bear in mind that this is just a generalization. It's just how the majority of companies act and what the majority of the target audience likes.
What I'm hoping is that as games become more popular and the companies will have a more diverse target audience, the games will also be more diverse.
Personally, I don't have that much of a problem with the depiction of the genders in that trailer, it's just that the same type is used so much. I don't mind it when there are sexy women and badass men beating each other up as long as there are enough games where the genders are depicted differently but at the moment that's not the case. I like playing games like Saints Row and Gears of War, as long as there are games like Half-Life and Zelda.
I just want more diversity
Anyway, the media has always done this. Men and women, we're always told how we should be. There is always a standard type. Things that society like, or at least the majority might enjoy. If the things that is generally considered how we should be change, then the depiction of men and women will change as well.
As an example, in western games men are often portrayed as gritty, bulky and badass. Those are the type of men that is considered to be well like by the target audience, so they use them often.
In Japanese games, the guys are often boys which look young and feminine and pale. There is a different target audience in Japan, different type of men are considered to be good characters, so they use them often.
Companies want to make money and they want the lowest risk possible. That means, if they have something that works, they stick to it. These depictions of men and women work for now, so they always use them. If suddenly they sell much less with these types, they'll switch to something else that works but there will always be specific types of men and women which will be used most.
Bear in mind that this is just a generalization. It's just how the majority of companies act and what the majority of the target audience likes.
What I'm hoping is that as games become more popular and the companies will have a more diverse target audience, the games will also be more diverse.
Personally, I don't have that much of a problem with the depiction of the genders in that trailer, it's just that the same type is used so much. I don't mind it when there are sexy women and badass men beating each other up as long as there are enough games where the genders are depicted differently but at the moment that's not the case. I like playing games like Saints Row and Gears of War, as long as there are games like Half-Life and Zelda.
I just want more diversity
I'm not sure I quite get it. Far as I can tell the video isn't all that bad.
Hitman in a dive of a hotel patching himself up after a hit with a hint that his tried to remove the tatoo on the back of his head.
Nuns walk up to said dive from a school bus somethings not quite right because instead of sensible shoes that we would expect from a traditional nun we get a close up of high heels so we know these arn't normal nuns then they start pulling automatic weapons and evan a rocket launcher from under the habits and remove the habits. The only unclear thing is really are these women real nuns or is that just their cover. Yes the outfits under the habits are fairly revealing but really it's not like they are half naked or anything though I must admit high heels wouldn't be my foot wear of choice if I was going into a fight. Not sure how easy it is to fight in a tight mini skirt either but well eye candy is eye candy and it does appeal to a certain demographic.
The fight scene where the protaganist takes out a couple from behind but the rest arn't exctly a cake walk and get in a couple of good shots. I guess this is the part where the trailer takes it's cues from the movie rather than the previous games as (this maybe just me being a crap gamer) the first couple of games it was more about getting into a position without being detected then completing the hit and getting out without getting into a firefight which you generaly lost to superior numbers. This is what gets fans of the franchise worried that the game is moving away from the sneak around kill as little as possible gameplay and getting more into go to this room kill everyone in it move to next area.
End of the fight scene and we see the protaganist paying a semblance of respect to defeated enemies by closing the dead womans eyes I guess as part of the looting ritual as the next shot is a trunk full of weapons some of them similar to what the women were just using against him. Trunk lid shuts and car drives off the end.
All in all kind of generic trailer really except the enemies arn't Nazis or terrorists they are women who are portrayed as a fairly competent hit squad which I guess is the problem.
Hitman in a dive of a hotel patching himself up after a hit with a hint that his tried to remove the tatoo on the back of his head.
Nuns walk up to said dive from a school bus somethings not quite right because instead of sensible shoes that we would expect from a traditional nun we get a close up of high heels so we know these arn't normal nuns then they start pulling automatic weapons and evan a rocket launcher from under the habits and remove the habits. The only unclear thing is really are these women real nuns or is that just their cover. Yes the outfits under the habits are fairly revealing but really it's not like they are half naked or anything though I must admit high heels wouldn't be my foot wear of choice if I was going into a fight. Not sure how easy it is to fight in a tight mini skirt either but well eye candy is eye candy and it does appeal to a certain demographic.
The fight scene where the protaganist takes out a couple from behind but the rest arn't exctly a cake walk and get in a couple of good shots. I guess this is the part where the trailer takes it's cues from the movie rather than the previous games as (this maybe just me being a crap gamer) the first couple of games it was more about getting into a position without being detected then completing the hit and getting out without getting into a firefight which you generaly lost to superior numbers. This is what gets fans of the franchise worried that the game is moving away from the sneak around kill as little as possible gameplay and getting more into go to this room kill everyone in it move to next area.
End of the fight scene and we see the protaganist paying a semblance of respect to defeated enemies by closing the dead womans eyes I guess as part of the looting ritual as the next shot is a trunk full of weapons some of them similar to what the women were just using against him. Trunk lid shuts and car drives off the end.
All in all kind of generic trailer really except the enemies arn't Nazis or terrorists they are women who are portrayed as a fairly competent hit squad which I guess is the problem.