Jimquisition: The Wacky Harassment Blame Parade

[Thanatos2k]

See, but as a male gamer who does NOT harass women online, I'm also tired of getting blamed for doing it. I don't control other people's actions, by "contributing to the online ecosystem" doesn't make it my fault when stupid people do stupid things.

I get harassed online too, like for example daring to suggest that a Dynasty Warriors Zelda mashup is a horrible idea, but you don't see a news story about that every time it happens. This isn't a problem with gaming - this is a problem with *the internet.*

 

[shrekfan246]

Say, Jim, do you have a running tally that you reset every week which records how long it takes until somebody seriously uses the arguments that you're calling dumb?

We can talk about it until we are blue in the face, its not going to change the nature of the internet.

Sorry Jim, but we do need to talk about it, ever aspect, I personally think this was a false flag operation run by the feminists (they have done it before) to continue to draw attention to their cause.

A women tries to get a game put on Steam through the Greenlight process and is repeatedly and excessively harassed over it.

How is this "a false flag operation" designed to "draw attention" to the "[feminist] cause"?

You know what, don't answer that.

So explain, then, what they committed that made them "deserve" this treatment.

Obviously they had the audacity of trying to become involved with video games while female. What bigger crime can there be? Think of the cooties!

 

[Machine Man 1992]

If anyone harrasses her by phone, she can just hand over her phone history to the police, they just fucked themselves right there.

As for the harrassment campaign, how do you combat people who take enjoyment out of your outrage?
I'm starting to think this has little to do with her being a woman per se, but rather, a convenient angle to go with, if she were a gay man the harrassment would be just the same, only with different slurs, the key component is exposure.

She stands out, her game concept is quite unique and she is a woman in the industry, online trolls don't usually just throw darts on the greenlight page and harrass whomever it may land on, they go for what catches their eye, there's nothing she can do about that, and nothing she can do as soon as it really gets going, it's just shitty people being shitty without having to justify or answer for it.

I just had a thought: What if trolls actually really like her game, and are just flaming her because that'll get her more exposure?

 

[loa]

That was my post you "quoted" there and no, I do not think I am "victim blaming" or "distancing myself" for wanting to know the whole story.
Sorry for not magically knowing that "she's female and that's literally all there is to it" was the whole story before knowing anything about it and finding that hard to believe for the amount of abuse she got that literally came out of nowhere.

I guess the question "what happened? What lead to this?" Is "victim blaming" now and if someone shares your hobby, you are somehow responsible for whatever crazy shit they do. Yeah, how about no, Jim.
How about no.

Funny how you talk about people on high horses though.

 

[Erttheking]

People, let me tell you something. Are you acting like there is no harassment in the gaming community? Are you telling people who complain about harassment that they just need to grow a thicker skin? Do you actively contribute to harassment? If you didn't answer yes to any of the above questions, then Jim is not accusing you of being sexist. If you did answer yes to one or more of them, you may want to think about what he said.

Every time he puts a video like this up, some people act like he's saying he's accusing all gamers everywhere of being sexist...I have no idea where this idea comes from.

 

[Machine Man 1992]

See, but as a male gamer who does NOT harass women online, I'm also tired of getting blamed for doing it. I don't control other people's actions, by "contributing to the online ecosystem" doesn't make it my fault when stupid people do stupid things.

I get harassed online too, like for example daring to suggest that a Dynasty Warriors Zelda mashup is a horrible idea, but you don't see a news story about that every time it happens.

Because as a male gamer, you're just expected to suck it up. And you do. We do.

But the minute that a woman gets mean things said to her, suddenly it's a big deal. For all the flak people like Anita Sarkeesian give Damsels In Distress, she sure profited off being one.

And this Depression Quest chick is going to be rolling in Benjamins from this.

I'll close with saying, "what is more sexist, the trolls who exploit chinks in the armor, or the press who focus on her being a woman who was insulted online?"

(Fer Christ's sake, if you're getting threatening phone calls, call the damn cops.)

 

[Weaver]

While I agree for the most part of the video there is always one thing that I always think when I see videos like this:

What do you expect the reasonable majority of us to do other than just say "Of course they're arseholes"? It would have been nice to suggest some positives we could do other than just contribute to the echo chamber.

This is exactly my sentiment. I work like 60 - 80 hours a week and I want to enjoy games in my free time.
If I was obligated to go on twitter/facebook/4chan/the escapist, etc, and defend every fucking injustice done in the "community" I'm apparently automatically a part of because I post on here and play games, I wouldn't have time for anything else.

I don't think the behaviour is correct.
I don't think it's justifiable.
I don't think it's okay.

But I really and truly believe it's not my job or responsibility to spend all my free time hunting down trolls on the internet and getting into fights with them.

I'm trying to make a better "commnity" by NOT being like the hateful trolls.

I further contest that simply being an online gaming site means we're intrinsically linked to all others. There are connections, but how many similarities does the incredibly heavily moderated Escapist have to /v/ ?

 

[deathjavu]

Honestly, is there any "story" that deserves the kind of harassment that some people have received? Unless these people are running child slavery rings, I don't fucking think so.

Someone can make a terrible game, and get called out for the game being terrible, without any personal insults involved. Right? Everyone agrees that this is the case?

If that's the case, someone can similarly get called out for being a poisonous fuckhead and saying sexist crap without any comment on the quality of the product, yes?

There is no "story" that justifies what eventually comes out of this crap. And if you're too scared to put your opinion out there, or you're worried the nuance will be lost, that's your problem. If you're so deeply cynical you believe nothing can be changed, that's your problem. And you're the kind of person that got criticized and mocked in this video, and somehow you watched it and didn't pick up on that.

Here, let me show you what I mean. I don't particularly care for Anita Sarkeesian's first video (I never watched any others) because I thought it was monumentally boring. I kept waiting for some new, interesting take or fresh information and all I got was the most obvious, simplistic explanations of a bunch of stuff I'd already known, delivered in something close to a monotone. It was like watching a video about why 1+1 = 2, delivered by the world's most boring man.

And I still am disgusted by the commentary she got. I don't give two fucks where she went and posted, the excrement that came out of that was slimy and enfilthening for the whole internet.

 

[Something Amyss]

The case of Anita - See every sensible levey on her productions; Budget doesn't reflect work, plays fast and loose with her evidence, refuses to engage in "conversation" becuase that might mean that her comments would have to be challenged, etc etc so on so forth. If she was male, I'd be saying the exact same thing.

So which one of those justifies rape threats, death threats, etc?

I shouldn't even have t touch the bit about how the comments being closed off only came after the threats, but it seems I'm probably going to have to, so I'll bring it up now as to not surprise you.

If she was male, that wouldn't have raised ire, so we wouldn't be having this discussion. But pretend all things are equal appears to be par for the course.

I don't think this is true. What I have seen of her posts leads me to believe that she is passionate about her views but I haven't't seen anything that leads me to believe she would do this. I think she is passionate but not unreasonable.

Doesn't "social justice warrior" just mean "person who believes things that I dislike" anyway?

This one looks bad but really isn't if you understand the nature of relatively small scale projects like this.

Or any project of any scale. Nepotism is pretty common.

3. Her art is bad.

Can't really talk to this one. The first I'd heard of anything specific to who she was was when someone said they shouldered blame in being attacked. What I've seen previously is just hate for her with no context. I didn't even know she was an artist from the rage I'd been seeing. She could have been a programmer, political activist, or puppy killer for all I knew.

It is a stupid complaint.

Good to know.

5. She is bad at her job as community manager.

This I agree with. Or, at least, what I have seen is not promising. The post she introduced herself to the community with, titled "THERE?S NO ?I? IN COMMUNITY... ER..." is terrible writing and embarrassing to read. The primary skills required by a community manager are an ability to build a relationship of trust with the community and the ability to effectively communicate. So far she has failed at both, first by intentional deception and second by plain old bad writing.

I'm not sure I buy the "deception" bit, but fair enough if she can't manage a community.

 

[Iceklimber]

IMO nothing inherently bad with distancing oneself from the hating part of gamer community.

 

[Something Amyss]

Obviously they had the audacity of trying to become involved with video games while female. What bigger crime can there be? Think of the cooties!

Apparently, closing off your comments section and not tolerating threats.

 

[hentropy]

See, but as a male gamer who does NOT harass women online, I'm also tired of getting blamed for doing it. I don't control other people's actions, by "contributing to the online ecosystem" doesn't make it my fault when stupid people do stupid things.

I get harassed online too, like for example daring to suggest that a Dynasty Warriors Zelda mashup is a horrible idea, but you don't see a news story about that every time it happens. This isn't a problem with gaming - this is a problem with *the internet.*

No one is blaming you for harassment, and being called stupid or dumb is not harassment. Getting all your social media accounts bombarded with sexist nonsense, getting threats against you, that is harassment. Imagine pouring a lot of your money, time, and heart into a game, and as soon as you submit it on Steam all of the comments blow up with YOU DUMB MAN YOU KNOW NOTHING GB2 WEIGHT ROOM KEEP THIS CRAP OFF OUR STEAM. And then when you ask what you did so wrong, someone says "well, I don't condone what they're saying, but why are you submitting this on Steam? Maybe you should just stay off of Steam if you can't handle the trolls."

That's different than someone calling you dumb on an Internet forum, yet you equate it, which is the problem. It doesn't happen to most developers, it only seems to be those who dare identify as female.

 

[Ipsen]

Bullshit. I have no relation to the harassers. Gaming is a worldwide hobby now and the idea that we are a single community is absolutely nuts. I don't even consider myself a part of certain communities within the games that I play.

And have you looked at Greenlight lately? Any crappy browser game or mobile port on there gets tons of flak. No, they shouldn't have made her gender part of the criticism, but the game would have been ridiculed either way.

Bullshit on your bullshit.

You have relation to harassers, simply for the fact of them being present and you acknowledging them. Really, what's stopping harassers from 4chan, or youtube, or IGN, from coming to, and affecting the 'Escapist Community'? What's stopping the reciprocal (besides personal preference)?

There's no 'gate' to bar all the vitriol another 'community' can bring to another. At least, the 'personality' of a site serves no hindrance to it. Speaking on terms of real people treating other real people, this might as well be one community. You're just simply comparing yourself to others at any level, then claiming yourself disparate.

And that's okay to do, but realize that's hermit mentality; you don't validate your claims by posting this, a forum not only open to this community, but every community.

 

[xNicolex]

A community is judged by the worst shit it tolerates, and as such the gamer community deserves all the scorn it gets.

The problem with that is that we don't tolerate it. In fact, one of the big points Jim makes is that people go out of their way to attempt disown people who do this. Just because it exists doesn't mean the gaming community at large tolerates it. But the fact is that we cannot stop it. The best we can do is call out the idiots who do it.

Except that it is tolerated. That's why it exists in very very plentiful amounts.

This isn't one of cases every so often it's becoming a weekly issue. It's not always the same people.

 

[Erttheking]

See, but as a male gamer who does NOT harass women online, I'm also tired of getting blamed for doing it. I don't control other people's actions, by "contributing to the online ecosystem" doesn't make it my fault when stupid people do stupid things.

I get harassed online too, like for example daring to suggest that a Dynasty Warriors Zelda mashup is a horrible idea, but you don't see a news story about that every time it happens.

Because as a male gamer, you're just expected to suck it up. And you do. We do.

But the minute that a woman gets mean things said to her, suddenly it's a big deal. For all the flak people like Anita Sarkeesian give Damsels In Distress, she sure profited off being one.

And this Depression Quest chick is going to be rolling in Benjamins from this.

I'll close with saying, "what is more sexist, the trolls who exploit chinks in the armor, or the press who focus on her being a woman who was insulted online?"

(Fer Christ's sake, if you're getting threatening phone calls, call the damn cops.)

Yes and that does suck. It's why I report someone who ever acts like an asshole to me online. The men don't, you know, get harassed for being men. It's kind of a different scenario.

Rolling in Benjamins? The game is going to be free...so I doubt it.

Um...pretty sure it's the harassment bit. I'm still failing to see the downside to people exposing harassment online.

 

[xPixelatedx]

I don't control other people's actions, by "contributing to the online ecosystem" doesn't make it my fault when stupid people do stupid things.

Making us feel responsible is only going to give more power to those who delight in spreading misery for the sake of their own twisted humor. In the end we won't have the power over them, no, they'll still just do what they want. Instead they'll have power over us if we try and base all our actions and reactions on what they do. Hell, I think it's about at that point right now.

 

[xNicolex]

I don't understand how it's my responsibility or problem that a minority of anonymous gasbags had a go at a woman for making "Depression Quest".

I also do not understand how I could possibly change this or contribute in any way.

It's this type of apathetic behavior which partly encourages this.

 

[Abomination]

I don't understand how it's my responsibility or problem that a minority of anonymous gasbags had a go at a woman for making "Depression Quest".

I also do not understand how I could possibly change this or contribute in any way.

It's this type of apathetic behavior which partly encourages this.

"Encourages"? My inactivity is ACTIVELY promoting the opposing viewpoint?

I'm sorry, but that's some "you're either with us or against us" rhetoric being spouted.

I'll be certain to subscribe to webpages and forums I never visit and post my dissent at people I've never met, about opinions I don't share to encourage people I don't know to move forward with causes I don't care about... because to do otherwise is to promote the opposing side.

Know what, I think I like the trolls more. At least they don't go out of their way to belittle and insult me for not contributing to this "battle".