Jimquisition: The Wacky Harassment Blame Parade

[Deadcyde]

I mean surely personal responsibility should never be as important as percieved sexual harrassment. /sarcasm

How about the harassers take personal responsibility, and stop being jerks ad harassers?

The fact it was a woman was inconsequential, it was ammo for insults, had it been a bald guy it would have been bald jokes, had it been a fat guy, you guessed it. It also doesn't address the fact that she went to known troll places. What the hell for if not to kick a hornets nest?

Wait, so it's her fault for posting a game to a site that's mean for posting games on? I'm not sure why you're defending people being jerks, just because it might not be for gendered reasons. They're still being jerks. That's not cool.

Had she put the game up on greenlight without going to the chan, what do you suppose would have happened?

Did she go the chan?

No arguement there. But in this specific case there's no proof she didn't set them off... If that's the case she's as responsible as they are.

The Steam Greenlight? Well apparently none of the harrassment was on there. At least not until after the apparent wizardchan blow up and wizardchan is certainly not a gaming website.

She got the screencaps and as far as I can tell says she took them herself. My question is why go to that site? It's not a gaming site, it's for over 30 virgin males, and they emphasis males. Because we don't know, no one can say she didn't go there looking for this sort of nonsense just so she could cry foul. This is a forum for these guys to go and say what they want to like minded types, her posting there is tantamount to me posting on a female only feminist board. No matter how positive i might delude myself into being if it's clearly a female only feminist board, i'm going to piss people off and should be adult enough to accept the consequences.

Also, jerking off over the phone. Did he say he was jerking off over the phone? Or did she listen for long enough just so she could tell he was jerking off? was he actually jerking off?.. what fucking proof do we have of these assertions?. two twitter conversations and some screencaps that could be easily taken out of context and which any context was omitted?

Come the fuck on.

The fact you don't even qeustion the validity of these accusations first, before condemning, is a pretty shitty commentary on humanity. More then this trolls are idiots nonsense.

 

[I38VWI]

Wait, what about Link's Crossbow Training?
Are we talking about amazing Zelda spinoffs today?

 

[Aardvaarkman]

Edited, formatted, and self-quoted for visibility since I ain't gonna repeat it again.

Yeah, please don't do that. Making your words, coloured, bold and in all-caps, does not make them better words, or your argument more persuasive.

Note: MPgmr died on the way back to /v/.
Have a good Festivus, peeps.

Now we're all just going to stand around saying "Where's MPgmr?"

 

[Aardvaarkman]

No arguement there. But in this specific case there's no proof she didn't set them off... If that's the case she's as responsible as they are.

But you're using very backwards logic. As said by others, you are the one making this claim - you show the evidence. It seems there is at least some evidence for her being harassed, in the form of screen caps. And if this "community" at Wizardchan or whatever were at all interested in exonerating themselves, then couldn't they release similar evidence of her going there to stir them up?

The fact you don't even qeustion the validity of these accusations first, before condemning, is a pretty shitty commentary on humanity. More then this trolls are idiots nonsense.

But I made absolutely no comments regarding the actual events that happened. All I was doing was commenting on the way you seem eager to jump to the defence of abusers - whether this event happened or not. I was only speaking in terms of hypotheticals, not claiming anything did or did not happen to her.

So far, all I've seen from you are claims that somehow harassment is justified or it's her fault for going to the wrong site - a claim which you appear to have made up out of thin air. The question is, why are you so eager to fabricate scenarios to try and make her look worse?

And, if you've been reading this thread, I have been mostly attacking Jim's argument that we all need to take responsibility for this incident. So I'm certainly not proclaiming "oh, won't somebody think of the wymmyn?" But you, sir, are definitely exhibiting symptoms of the poor behaviour that Jim describes. So well done, you've made me partially sympathise with Jim's stupid argument.

 

[Eve Charm]

Alright Jim, I Demand an episode on 4chan, something awful and the like because those are such BIG PARTS OF THE GAMING COMMUNITY and shame on yourself for not doing a episode on them and missing everything they have to offer.

I mean frankly you just doing the same thing as everyone else ignoring them all this time and just giving those little mentions of them and that's it every time they "DO A THING"

 

[heyjim]

Hey Jim,

I'd like to make a bold claim: this problem will NEVER get fixed, not in our lifetime anyway. I don't need to tell you that I agree with you that the behaviour we are looking it are is gross and pathetic. The point where I want to disagree with you is where you're admonishing those that want to disassociated themselves with the harassers, and call them "assholes. selfish assholes for not showing support."

I'm an adult that plays video games. I frequent a few gaming sites to watch videos and read new stories. Your videos are amongst them. I enjoy opinion pieces. I see a lot of the BS going around comment threads, especially on opinion stories, and it's pretty sick most of the time.

I do want to argue that those assholes/trolls that spend their time harassing others are a subset of "the community". I don't feel the need to engage with these people to prove them wrong. They may not be 14, although I sure hope they are. There probably are people in their thirties roaming around being immature assholes. Whether they're immature teenagers or adults that never grew out of it, they are a subset.

I understand why you don't like the "vocal minority argument" because, yes, it means that those reasonable people out there are walking away from "the problem". We were young once too, and we did spend hours arguing with total strangers on the internet/BBS about subject X,Y,Z. The reason we are now adults is because we realized that these conversation are a goddamn waste of time. I don't have time to play hall monitor with a hoard of kids that have more time to waste than I do, and don't yet have a grasp of tact, decency, logic, and basic social skills.

So why not try to "educate" these people and give them a good trashing? Maybe they will learn? Ok. These are public message boards. There will always be a new crop of immature, testosterone filled kids to replace them, and I'm not their parent nor their friend. This problem will not go away because puberty will no go away. And again, if they're in their thirties, then they seek assistance or deal with their personal problem because they have a warped sense of reality.

Maturing up is a long process of trial and error that happens in social situations. The internet is a very poor place to grow up because there is very little people you care about to engage with, so there is no real feedback loop to tell you that what you did was hurtful. Hurting stranger is not something people feel a lot of remorse for; this needs to happen in real social situation with people you care about.

I understand that this is a problem, and gaming seem to be more toxic than other places; probably because there's a lot of immature and anti-social people playing video games. You know it's true. It's not a prejudice. It's not a stereotype. It's the fucking reality of the situation. You can feel sick about it that this "community" has a lot of bad apples, but those people that would rather ignore these people are well within their rights to do so.

I'm not saying I won't stand up for someone being bashed, but I can assure you that I'm not making it my goal to argue them down until they cave, because that's just not going to happen. I don't particularly "associate" myself with this community. It's not because I created an account to post something that I am "part of this community". I don't have a duty to clean up this shit because that shit is not something that I or you can fix. It's not going to get fixed.

If you want to advocate that people not shy away from speaking up against aggression, that's noble. But don't call those that would rather not engage with these kids a bunch of selfish asshole. I'd rather be playing video games.

 

[Deadcyde]

From what I can tell after extensive research. It goes like this. (the order is as close as i can find and i take no responsibility for it being wrong)

Dev posts game.
wizardchan peeps ***** about game on wizardchan (it was mostly because of disagreements with whether the dev would actually understand the subject matter of depression, having a successful job and relationship and social life)
Dev finds wizardchan posts somehow
Complains that she's being harassed
takes down game
puts game back up after tirades about how just because she's female doesn't mean she can't game dev (as some of the posts were misogynistic, read: 2 out of the hundred or so, the idea is the harrassment, if you could call it that, is because she's a woman.)
tweeters hear cry of harrassment, run with story, slathering term 4chan about
channers (the source is unknown) take offense at this, obtain devs details apparrently call dev masturbating
Dev reports this
media runs with this because gamers hating devs is in vogue and feminists seem to be very vocal these days

So tl;dr is some neckbeards ***** out the game on their own forum made specifically for Bitching things out. Dev finds this and calls it harrassment, how she finds it is unknown. Apparently someone takes offense to this call of harrassment and decides to harrass her for real with a phone call. Suddenly the media is spouting gamers are evil and channers are on a crusade to ruin this womans life because she's a female Dev because gamers can't handle female devs.


*shakes head* This is as close to the truth as I can find as any source material is lacking, I'll admit any short coming on this but this looks to me like it was stupidity blown out of proportion. Not anti female game dev. The troll that called her was out of line (if it did indeed happen).

But her freaking out about the wizardchan stuff? Lame. If she even took a moment to read their stuff objectively she would see they cared more about the handling of depression then her sex.

That idiot that called her? Lame. Thanks for making us all look like idiots and setting gamers back further.

Then the media making it sound like gamers hate female devs? Lame. Do your reasearch FFS.

The amount of time I lost trying to get to the bottom of this? Lame. But that's my own fault.

Seriously though, these wizardchan guys are mostly anxiety ridden agoraphobes who are more scared of women then angry at them. It seems like the majority of them honestly just want to be left alone and the idea of attracting attention like this is anethema to them. Hardly evil trolls.

As for actual trolls out there, treat people the way you'd like to be treated. It's not hard.

And i'm done... say what you will but this is my last word on this. cause, fuck it, it's already been a monumental waste of time.

 

[Atmos Duality]

No no, your reaction was quite justified. I wasn't being sarcastic. Although to counter it I must point out that there is plenty of evidence that these ridiculous forum going fuckheads exist. The only question is whether or not they are the majority or the minority and I maintain that they are the majority as much as the gaming community (such as it is) would rather believe otherwise.

I maintain it's the minority, simply because anonymous assholes of that caliber just don't stay that organized for that long.
Now, PUBLIC assholes on the other hand...

 

[Canadamus Prime]

No no, your reaction was quite justified. I wasn't being sarcastic. Although to counter it I must point out that there is plenty of evidence that these ridiculous forum going fuckheads exist. The only question is whether or not they are the majority or the minority and I maintain that they are the majority as much as the gaming community (such as it is) would rather believe otherwise.

I maintain it's the minority, simply because anonymous assholes of that caliber just don't stay that organized for that long.
Now, PUBLIC assholes on the other hand...

Who said they were organized?

 

[Atmos Duality]

Who said they were organized?

Jim, and anyone claiming "Hivemind" implies some level of organization.

Though I suppose you have a point: Even the angriest of mobs retain some base level of organization even if it isn't cognitively deliberate.

 

[Hellfireboy]

What exactly is anyone here planning to do about it. If you have a bunch of anonymous assholes being assholes then you should... call them assholes. They don't know you and you don't know them so there isn't any real repercussions for this kind of behavior. No one is going to go to their house and kick their ass. No one is going to get them fired from their jobs or kicked out of their parents basements. What exactly is anyone going to do? Type louder? One up them on creativity calling them assholes? Every post here is repeating that we shouldn't tolerate this behavior but all you can do about it is counter insults for insults to people for whom reason and logic are foreign concepts. Is someone actually going to come up with a way to deal with it or are we just going to get more videos like this one which are basically just screaming at the wind and tell it to stop howling?

 

[lord.jeff]

This may have already come up in the past twelve pages but can anyone post the evidence of her harassment? I've looked it up and all I've found was her twitter account making claims of her being harassed.

 

[Bruce]

What exactly is anyone here planning to do about it. If you have a bunch of anonymous assholes being assholes then you should... call them assholes. They don't know you and you don't know them so there isn't any real repercussions for this kind of behavior. No one is going to go to their house and kick their ass. No one is going to get them fired from their jobs or kicked out of their parents basements. What exactly is anyone going to do? Type louder? One up them on creativity calling them assholes? Every post here is repeating that we shouldn't tolerate this behavior but all you can do about it is counter insults for insults to people for whom reason and logic are foreign concepts. Is someone actually going to come up with a way to deal with it or are we just going to get more videos like this one which are basically just screaming at the wind and tell it to stop howling?

The problem is these assholes got ahold of her contact details - which is a lot easier online than you would think.

 

[Ilyak1986]

What nonsense. I think that these indie devs deliberately kick the hornet's nest to rile up publicity. I mean it worked for Anita, this woman then does the same thing, and we're supposed to have sympathy?

No, being harassed isn't a good thing, but going to the troll nests of the internet to seek attention? Well, congratulations, you *found* the attention. Now stop complaining.

 

[Bruce]

From what I can tell after extensive research. It goes like this. (the order is as close as i can find and i take no responsibility for it being wrong)

Dev posts game.
wizardchan peeps ***** about game on wizardchan (it was mostly because of disagreements with whether the dev would actually understand the subject matter of depression, having a successful job and relationship and social life)
Dev finds wizardchan posts somehow
Complains that she's being harassed
takes down game
puts game back up after tirades about how just because she's female doesn't mean she can't game dev (as some of the posts were misogynistic, read: 2 out of the hundred or so, the idea is the harrassment, if you could call it that, is because she's a woman.)
tweeters hear cry of harrassment, run with story, slathering term 4chan about
channers (the source is unknown) take offense at this, obtain devs details apparrently call dev masturbating
Dev reports this
media runs with this because gamers hating devs is in vogue and feminists seem to be very vocal these days

Here is the much more likely sequence of events.
Dev posts game with plans to release it for free on Greenlight.
wizardchan peeps ***** about game on wizardchan.
Some wizardchan peeps decide to take it a step further, and start harassment campaign on her Greenlight page.
One gets ahold of her contact details, posts it on wizardchan.
Dev notices she is getting seriously unpleasant shit heading her way out of nowhere, and wonders what the hell is going on.
Dev Googles, discovers wizardchan.
Dev eventually, worn down, takes down game.
Months pass, Dev puts game back up on Greenlight figuring the campaign will have run its course.
Wizardchan starts up again.
Dev goes to press, shows screenshots, press writes about it.
The usually suspect try to make out as though Dev is at fault for all of this, using logic that would make Kent Hovind blush.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Who said they were organized?

Jim, and anyone claiming "Hivemind" implies some level of organization.

Though I suppose you have a point: Even the angriest of mobs retain some base level of organization even if it isn't cognitively deliberate.

I wouldn't call a large group of assholes on the internet harassing an individual for some contrived reason organized.

 

[carnex]

sorry, wrong threat. Please forge me. I already told everything I had to say here outside

There is no "gaming community". There is perhaps Escapist magazine community or event fighting games community. But nothing that resembles community that includes people playing video games.

And while you could argue that there is "gaming culture" it will never be focused as early punk culture for example. Also, out of all people that play video games people who are part of "gaming culture" are in numbers far below 1 percent. Orders of magnitude below. And even then "gaming culture" is as fractured as "music culture" would be and even "rock culture" would be if it ever existed outside some fetishist ideal.