Jimquisition: Tomodachi Strife

[Dragonbums]

I mean- where the fuck were these people when you couldn't have gay marriage in FE:Awakening? Seriously.

Probably because a huge portion of that game involved reproducing with your loved one with your child inheriting both parents traits. How would you go about it with a gay marriage? Select a surrogate? Magic pregnancies? A Mass Effect Asari body meld?

But there is always solutions! They could adopt kids! Plenty of orphans in war torn countries.

I mean, I'm perfectly aware of all of the things pointed out. But this is the thing. It's very picky and choosey what they want to rage about.


I'm all for gay rights and marriage. Hell I'm glad the next game is going to implement it. But at the same time I'm not going to tell someone who wants to be neutral on the subject that they are bigots and anti homosexual for not having the feature.

It would be the equivalent of me saying that Nintendo is racist against those of dark skin because in the character selection screen you can't choose to be tan-brown (unless of course your getting a tan, but really now.)

 

[Kenjitsuka]

You know, I just noticed how this new backdrop makes it look like you're a black winged angel.
Makes sense to thank God for you now!

Also, thanks for going out of your way to be inclusive of the angels in the audience!

 

[RA92]

Oh yes Nintendo is horrible because as a Japanese company, it applies Japanese cultural norms to a game.

When you are exporting your game to a different country, you have to take into account the sensibilities and cultural norms of that region. Don't they have an entire American branch to handle that? Isn't that the point of localization?

Even if they didn't want to patch it back in, fine. But they, especially Nintendo America, shouldn't have implied that gay relationship is some kind of an outlier in their original message. That's what pissed people off.



Nintendo is of course also "racist" against Muslims, since this game does not allow marriages with little children (as the Prophet with Aisha), or plural marriages (a basic islamic right).

Muslims aren't a 'race'. Most Muslim countries aren't theocracies (62% of Muslim population are in SE Asia), and have secular laws banning child marriage (even if they have trouble enforcing them). Law overrides religion. So no, they aren't being 'racist' against anybody.

 

[stueymon]

Fact is, it's entirely up to Nintendo what they put into their games and if they don't want homosexuality in their product it's their right. It's not a hate speech, it's just a product.

THAT.SAID.

It's an absolutely abhorrent thing to do and it feels completely arbitrary. I never imagined Nintendo having a particular stance against homosexuality and the fact they apologised probably indicates they dont. Surely someone at Nintendo would have realised this would hurt sales from gay people and gay friendly people?

Does anyone else think it's odd that Nintendo say they can't change the game now when they already patched it to "fix" the gay bug? Can't they just patch the patch?

 

[xaszatm]

Ah. Odd.

Was that an actual part of the game, or where they just messing around with it?

Yes, this was an actual part of the game. Nintendo of America has announced that they have no plans of removing it from the game.

Just checked again and, yeah, unless I'm missing or misunderstanding something, this is how the whole thing went:

- Nintendo releases the game with the gay marriage thing
- The devs patch it away because it wasn't intentional
- The press starts going on about Nintendo being against homosexuality
- Nintendo responds, saying "this isn't what we were trying to say. We were just fixing a glitch"

Basically, the fault lies with whoever moron thought that patching gay relationship out of the game was necessary

Actually here's how the whole thing went:

-Nintendo releases Tomadachi Life
-Players realize that transferring Mii's from the DS Tomadachi results in data leakage and memory corruption
-Nintendo releases a patch fixing said error
-An Article notes this patch and comments that some players are using cross-dressing to get around no homosexual
marriages within the game
-About a year and a few months later, Nintendo announces Tomadachi Life for a worldwide release
-Tye, a homosexual gamer, realizes that Tomadachi Life doesn't have homosexual relations
-Tye starts Miiquality, a reasonable mature campaign to allow homosexual marriage in the next game, if not this one. He
also emphasizes to not boycott the game
-Nintendo responds to Miiquality with well-meaning, but idiotic statment
-Several websites pick up on Miiquaity and the earlier article and twist everything around. Stating that Nintendo patched
homosexual marriage out of the game (when they didn't) and tells consumers to boycott the game and that Nintendo is evil
-Nintendo responds with much better statement, but damage is already done.

OT: Where's that facepalm picture? Because that's me right now. What ever happened to using first party sources to get your info? It has discussed multiple times on this very website, that part of controversy was a non-issue caused by a translation error. When IGN of all sites is more investigated than anyone else, a serious problem has occurred.

Alright, Nintendo IS wrong for not including same sexual marriages in the Tomadachi series. No one (OK, pedantic people, very few of the people here) is arguing about that. And I applaud Miiquality for his well-meaning, mature campaign to fix such a travesty. My issue comes from the lies and outright yellow journalism displayed everywhere for the sole purpose of painting Nintendo as a mustache twirling bigot. If you have issue with Nintendo's stance, you don't need to add any more bullshit. Talk about the stance. Adding lies only serves to misinform to public and to make yourselves look like villains in the long run.

 

[NightsOwl]

So, pretty much what this is saying is that Gay relationships should be in any game with relationships by default now?

I agree. And I feel it should be the standard by now too. Even if I'm not gay myself or even if I am, I might get a bit of enjoyment seeing the main character of a game swing both ways. Really, it only helps make everyone happy, unless they're homophobic, which at that point, they can go shove it.

Inclusion of every party cannot hurt if it's a party that does no harm.

I have no problem with inclusion in games, It doesn't hurt anyone. To each their own. However there are still a great many cultures and people in this world that find homosexuality to be an abomination. At this point all inclusive relationships should NOT be default. It's as perfectly okay to be intolerant of same sex couples as it is to tolerate or support same sex couples as long as you don't act out on your prejudices.

Right now there are sectors of gay community who go out and attack people who do not support Gays. They mainly attack through social media and news outlets. The result is a call to boycott and/or public shaming, it's essentially a public lynching without a rope. This is discrimination and is just as wrong as a company firing an employee because they were gay.

Did Nintendo handle the situation poorly, yes. They could have made a statement that didn't ruffle so many feathers.

I agree, I was thinking a bit closed minded when I was only thinking of Japan, the UK/EU, and US. You have a point about cultures being massively different, and in that respect I don't really know what to say. I'm the type of person who's okay with gay marriage or whatever not being in games or being in games. I just think it adds more choice, so if it's not in, I don't mind. In games where you're essentially the main character, I can see why, but games with a preset character with a name, personality and everything else, I can see why it wouldn't be in something like that.

I'm on the side that if it gets to the point where it is the default standard somewhere down the line, I don't mind. As of right now, you're correct, most of the world cannot handle it. And that's a pity that some people cannot enjoy a game they want, because a company may not add the option in because of being unable to sell it in other territories.

I think I'm just rambling. Sorry for the TL;DR. x_x

 

[xaszatm]

So how long until someone throws up the whole 'danger of inclusion' argument like what happened with Mass Effect?

"If we allow the Gay Tomadachis, then we have to allow PEDOPHILE Tomadachis as well!" or what not?

That would be if Fox News got involved. Those dipshit asshole associate anything gay with pedophilia. They're the most ignorantly broadcast "news" channel in America.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the "We didn't intend any social commentary" bit of the apology directed at people saying Nintendo is homophobic?

Press: "Nintendo is against homosexuality!"
Nintendo: "We did not intend to say any such thing"

You indeed are incorrect. There were many homosexual gamers who'd found out that they and their partners could not get married in the game or have a relationship with their Mii's. This is a game advertised as "Your friends, Your drama, Your life." The fans created a petition and got the word out asking Nintendo to include same-sex marriages within the game. The part you're quoting was a response to that petition, to the fans asking for the feature. So no, this isn't a to-press statement because Nintendo was getting flack, this is a statement by Nintendo to it's [now probably significantly smaller] fanbase asking for a feature in a game and being told that their lifestyle is nothing more than "social commentary".

Then correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Boycotting the game the OPPOSITE effect Miiquality wanted? Or are we to ignore the campaign from now on beyond saying it happened. And yes, Nintendo's original response was at best poorly worded. But most people who were part of the Miiquality campaign, including the guy who made the campaign, were realists who realized that putting the content into THIS game would be unlikely.

 

[xaszatm]

With people calling Nintendo bigots. I'm getting tired of it.

Nintendo is making Electronic Arts look like progressives. This after I've personally been banned from the EA forums (by an actual EA employee) for publicly condoning gay rights. Anyone who makes EA look good is clearly bigoted. And good luck trying to change my opinion on the matter.

...OK, care to explain WHY Nintendo is clearly bigoted? I'm not even going to bother to attempt to change such a statement without some context first. (And yes, to answer your question, I'm clearly insane).

 

[Dragonbums]

With people calling Nintendo bigots. I'm getting tired of it.

Nintendo is making Electronic Arts look like progressives. This after I've personally been banned from the EA forums (by an actual EA employee) for publicly condoning gay rights. Anyone who makes EA look good is clearly bigoted. And good luck trying to change my opinion on the matter.

How exactly? They told Miiquality that it was basically too late for this game but they will do it in future installments if feedback was positive. They never told Miiquality people they would never do it in the history of ever.

 

[RA92]

When you are exporting your game to a different country, you have to take into account the sensibilities and cultural norms of that region. Don't they have an entire American branch to handle that?

For the most part NOA can not make changes to a game without approval from NOJ. The only exception I can think of would be if bringing the game over had caused some game breaking bug and it needed to be reworked or something.

Hmmm, point taken. But my greater argument was that the NA division should have worded the original message more carefully, since it's their responsibility to act as a bridge between NA and the mothership in Japan. Even if the Japanese division is tone-deaf due to their cultural conservatism, the North American division doesn't have that excuse.

Even if they didn't want to patch it back in, fine. But they, especially Nintendo America, shouldn't have implied that gay relationship is some kind of an outlier in their original message. That's what pissed people off.

 

[Dragonbums]

Then correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Boycotting the game the OPPOSITE effect Miiquality wanted?

It was definitely the opposite of what Tye wanted in his Miiquality campaign video. It's clear who watched the whole thing and who simply stopped at "Nintendo didn't implement gay marriage in Tomodachi Life" and went to their blogs and news articles to write the latest click bait headlines. He said not to do that. He said do hashtag campaigns on Twitter and Facebok, in the review section of the game state you want gay equality in the next installment, or simply write a letter to Nintendo stating such. Nowhere in that campaign did he call Nintendo bigots, anti-homosexual, or any other mudslinging name that people all over the web came up with towards Nintendo this month.

 

[Strain42]

This game looks terrifying and I can't even tell if it looks like it would be fun...

...that's really all I have to say here.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

Ah. Odd.

Was that an actual part of the game, or where they just messing around with it?

Based on the Direct that seems to be something you can do in game. You can transfers your current Mii's (and alter their voice) or make female/male Miis (depending on the relationship your going for) and have them look like the opposite sex- transfer them over to the game, adjust the voices accordingly and have yourself a good ol time.

Huh. So does changing the outfits/voices actually change the gender then? Otherwise it sounds like they do have gay marriage, but you have to cross dress for it.

The issue is that even if he was just focusing on the statement it reinforces the increasingly popular and very bad notion that if "If your not for us, your against us". Especially when it comes to clash with other regions and cultures that don't give a shit about Western ideals. In the case of Nintendo they make a game that is only for a Japanese audience. Japan is a place where gay marriage is illegal. As such it comes to no surprise that they don't put that feature in the game.
As for the statement itself the original statement before their "apology" statement was basically the same fucking thing. They weren't going to do it in this installment but they were going to do it in later installments.

I see what you mean, though I think Jim put Nintendo in a fairer light than that. He talked about how Nintendo of America said no to adding it in our version (and yeah I know they do answer to Nintendo in Japan). That at the very least shows they don't want to make such a change for a different audience.

They made changes already to the game for the version to the U.S. form what I've heard (changing the Sumo game into a football one, ect).

So saying it's odd they wouldn't make that change as well. While Japan has no legal gay marriages, it's not as though they are actively trying to not have gay people exist in media (as far as I know. Correct me if I'm wrong please).

Like Jim put it. The issue is that the excursion just comes off as ignorant. Coupled with that statement they made, it can easily be seen as something worse. By trying to say neutral with the use of exclusion, they just come off looking bad, despite their intentions.

Also, this isn't the first time a game has chosen to not include gay people. Thus why Jim focuses on how it's still such a taboo to simply include them.

I mean- where the fuck were these people when you couldn't have gay marriage in FE:Awakening? Seriously.

FE is Fire Emblem, right? I've only just recently been made aware of those games. Never played them.
So I can't say much about it.

The comment I heard from someone about it is that each character is individually created to be unique, so people are more forgiving.

But with Tomodachi Life, people believe that since the Mii is suppose to be "you" (Kind of, but not really).

Spoiler: video explains

It comes of as them saying "YOU can play the game, but YOU can't be gay in it." Kind of like how the Mass Effect 3 ending got more hate than the Deus ex: H.R.'s ending. Even though they were similar (and really, Deus ex H.R. was worse ;p).

 

[Tanneseph]

That was an incredibly articulate argument of -why- that kind of handling it is an issue, with some great examples. Cheers to you for it.

 

[Symion]

It's amusing when Jim gets something so wrong.

1) It was very clearly a bug that was attached to a value being assigned that could potentially make the game unstable
2) Nintendo saying the removal of the bug was not social commentary on their view of Marriage *did not* happen in a vacuum. It was directly accused of patching the bug out as a form of social commentary when it clearly wasn't and they simply responded. If thousands of people started claiming your company was anti-gay I would hope you issue a statement that was false if your company isn't.
3) Yes, it very much still is a statement of stance on an issue to include Gay Marriage wholesale in a game...in Japan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Japan Does it suck that it still is? Yes. But, don't claim that doing it is the norm in a country where it still very much is not so.
4) Gay rights are a thing that should be supported wholesale but this idea that homosexuality has always been the norm and its all the heterosexuals stressing out about that are weird is absolute bullshit. Homosexuality is abnormal by the very definition of the word but its absolutely fine to be abnormal in that sense. The fact that I spent a whole day staring at a panel of flashing points of light is abnormal in a purely physical sense for the human body (hence the headache afterwards) but is it my right to do so? Your damned right it is.

 

[Zero Serenity]

Did Jim just admit to being Bisexual? Explains his love for Commander Shepard now doesn't it...

Yeah, he's mentioned his sexuality before in some of his written articles, usually he just makes light of it in these videos.

Got a link? I'm now curious as to his writings.