Jimquisition: When The Starscreams Kill Used Games
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
Recommended Videos
The console itself being a closed system should be plenty DRM enough frankly. It's far harder to pirate for a console than for a PC.Lord_Gremlin said:
It's really just the publishers being greedy myopic fools.
I happen to disagree with Jim's assessment of GameStop. I buy used games, but only after they are no longer published and when the price is drastically reduced. GameStop steals from developers because it sells used games during the new period thus collecting all the money on a used sale when some of that money would have gone to the developer on a new sale.
In the car market, you buy a new 2013 car in the 2013 product year not used 2013 car in the 2013 product year. If you are in the market for a used car in the 2013 product year, you will usually be buying something from 1995 to 2010 just to keep the price affordable. Buying a 2010 car in the 2013 product year isn't robbing the auto industry of a new sale.
The second hand market isn't evil. What's evil is when a second hand sale is happening the weekend after a new product is released instead of a half year to a year down the road. Its not what GameStop does, its how GameStop does it that's bad.
And yes, the publishers do have to get in bed with GameStop even if they hate GameStop. GameStop has a monopoly on the second hand market, the publishers have to offer GameStop bonuses if they want developers' products displayed. GameStop and the publishers are frenemies. Publishers need GameStop to display their new product as the plot to kill GameStop to take full control of the market. GameStop needs new product for its stores even as it kneecaps the publishers with its abuse of the second hand market.
Now that's not to say the publishers are completely innocent. Publishers screw developers out of the full monetary value of the developer's work. publisher's greed has led to overpriced digital games and DLC that would have been sold as part of the game in the past. Furthermore the publisher's mismanagement of the Triple A market is leading to bloated, over budget games that will never make a profit. The Triple A market has so much budgetary liability that even without the second hand market and piracy, there aren't enough customers to make up the money dumped into these games. I do agree that the death of the second hand market will not lead to cheaper games.
In the car market, you buy a new 2013 car in the 2013 product year not used 2013 car in the 2013 product year. If you are in the market for a used car in the 2013 product year, you will usually be buying something from 1995 to 2010 just to keep the price affordable. Buying a 2010 car in the 2013 product year isn't robbing the auto industry of a new sale.
The second hand market isn't evil. What's evil is when a second hand sale is happening the weekend after a new product is released instead of a half year to a year down the road. Its not what GameStop does, its how GameStop does it that's bad.
And yes, the publishers do have to get in bed with GameStop even if they hate GameStop. GameStop has a monopoly on the second hand market, the publishers have to offer GameStop bonuses if they want developers' products displayed. GameStop and the publishers are frenemies. Publishers need GameStop to display their new product as the plot to kill GameStop to take full control of the market. GameStop needs new product for its stores even as it kneecaps the publishers with its abuse of the second hand market.
Now that's not to say the publishers are completely innocent. Publishers screw developers out of the full monetary value of the developer's work. publisher's greed has led to overpriced digital games and DLC that would have been sold as part of the game in the past. Furthermore the publisher's mismanagement of the Triple A market is leading to bloated, over budget games that will never make a profit. The Triple A market has so much budgetary liability that even without the second hand market and piracy, there aren't enough customers to make up the money dumped into these games. I do agree that the death of the second hand market will not lead to cheaper games.
Well, another example of how publishers don't know how to sell games. Make games that are worth keeping and you have less used gamesLordLundar said:
Breath of Fire 3 was the last one I rented.DVS BSTrD said:I can't even remember the last game I rented...
Some people just can't seem to understand that there will always be more people with less money.
Rented it so many times I paid for its cost multiple times over.
As an adult I saw it one day in Gamestop and bought it without a second thought. Was the happiest unplanned purchase I've ever made >.>.
Even have a CD protective cover on the darn thing.
That is exactly what it is and its gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood.Norrdicus said:
Same.FizzyIzze said:
If they WERE somehow able to kill the cheaper game market I'd just stop buying entirely. Haven't had television in years and haven't missed it one bit.
I don't pine for luxuries. If they don't suit my needs I move onto things that do.
Retailers only getting 1% of the item's worth?
Something sounds incredibly wrong about that kind of figure. Maybe if you're talking about pure profits, basically after they have to pay all their employees and their bills. But there is absolutely no way any retailer would stay afloat if they only got $1-2 dollars and the publisher got $58-59 dollars from a sale, retailers wouldn't even bother to be in business because you'd never sell enough games to make up for a single employee's salary during the day.
I've heard the average cut is about %20 of the item's worth, hell with digital distribution Notch said Steam takes a whopping 30% cut.
Something sounds incredibly wrong about that kind of figure. Maybe if you're talking about pure profits, basically after they have to pay all their employees and their bills. But there is absolutely no way any retailer would stay afloat if they only got $1-2 dollars and the publisher got $58-59 dollars from a sale, retailers wouldn't even bother to be in business because you'd never sell enough games to make up for a single employee's salary during the day.
I've heard the average cut is about %20 of the item's worth, hell with digital distribution Notch said Steam takes a whopping 30% cut.
It's worth noting that Kuchera is getting raked over the coals on Penny Arcade's own site by 99% of the comments on that editorial as we speak.
Deservedly so, frankly. Microsoft suddenly becoming Valve would take more than some artificial market manipulation; it would take a massive change in philosophy in a company that I'm getting an increasing sense is tearing itself apart inside and out.
Deservedly so, frankly. Microsoft suddenly becoming Valve would take more than some artificial market manipulation; it would take a massive change in philosophy in a company that I'm getting an increasing sense is tearing itself apart inside and out.
Of course not,I don't know where Jim's been getting these numbers from but its closer to 10-15%. I know people don't like Pachter for his infamous predictions but he probably knows his shit when it comes to business side of the industry.Rednog said:
http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/qba2o2/pach-attack--episode-111 (sorry I have no idea how to embed a GT video)
From 2:40,he explains who gets what from a $60 game.
Apples and oranges.kwerboom said:
You trade in a car when you need/want a new one. Could be anything from a year to 5 years(?).
You trade in a game when your done with it. These days that can be as low as 8 hours after purchase. After that it mostly comes down to replay value and personal preference(some people trade-in, some hoard).
You think Gamestop should sit on a pile of games till they've been out a year, to protect the publisher ?
Thats not their business. If publishers want less people to buy used, they should make games people want to keep.
Some good points but the impression I got from the Xbone and some of the followup information is not that they were going to kill used games, but rather they've begun colluding with Gamestop and the other big retailers to create a 3-way monopoly between Microsoft, the publishers, and the big retailers.
Can you trade your games with a friend? Give it away? Sell it on Ebay/Craigslist/etc? They haven't answered that question but it's really shaping up to be the only way you can transfer ownership of your game is to bring it into a Microsoft approved retailer and accept what they're offering. The retailer can then turn around and sell it used, with the profits being split three-ways.
If that's how it's going to be then this is really a damned good deal for Gamespot. They will lose some immediate profits on the one hand but come to an agreement with publishers to ensure the used game market sticks on the other, with the added bonus of delivering the coup de grace to a number of their competitors.
Basically everybody wins here... except for us. So if it really turns out that way this is one instance where I really hope the pirates/hackers crack the system hard.
Can you trade your games with a friend? Give it away? Sell it on Ebay/Craigslist/etc? They haven't answered that question but it's really shaping up to be the only way you can transfer ownership of your game is to bring it into a Microsoft approved retailer and accept what they're offering. The retailer can then turn around and sell it used, with the profits being split three-ways.
If that's how it's going to be then this is really a damned good deal for Gamespot. They will lose some immediate profits on the one hand but come to an agreement with publishers to ensure the used game market sticks on the other, with the added bonus of delivering the coup de grace to a number of their competitors.
Basically everybody wins here... except for us. So if it really turns out that way this is one instance where I really hope the pirates/hackers crack the system hard.
Car market is a bad example because when you're driving a Toyota, you're advertising for Toyota (like we both just did by talking about Toyota). I agree that MS and Sony don't deserve a cut at all and the game industry is the only industry that cares about used sales. I'm just pointing out that the information people are raging about, including Mr Sterling here, is false. MS and Sony are not killing the used game industry, in fact they are barely even wounding it. There will still be people who want to sell their games and people will still be able to buy them.CriticKitten said:
At the end of that I may have yelled at my computer, "thank god for Jim!" during that pause -_-'
No but seriously, we've all been talking about the crash of the game industry, looks like Microsoft may cause it with this.
No but seriously, we've all been talking about the crash of the game industry, looks like Microsoft may cause it with this.
Really. It was a disgusting display of apologetic rhetoric and childishly optimism bordering at denial. Cost less because of no used games?! How much do people have to smoke to come up with something like that?Smokescreen said:
Nice to see it's now being attacked for the bullshit it is.
You know what I hate how everyone associates the used game market exclusively with Gamestop. yes I know they are huge but these past 6 years I have spent $0 at gamestop for used and hundreds if not thousands on amazon's used games.
OT: great episode jim. You never disappoint me lately.
OT: great episode jim. You never disappoint me lately.
Does really the game stores only get 2-5 dollars per game?... That doesn't compute with me. Having worked in many other parts of the retail industry, where profit margins are frequently 50% to as much as an incredible 800% on some products, a tiny 5% or even 10% seems impossible! Surely this cannot be so! My store doesn't sell a single product that earns us less than 40%. I'm sure you could get to 5-10% after factoring in the cost of renting the building, wages and so on... But that shouldn't really be counted when talking about induvidual product profits, because rent, price of workers etc vary a lot and is highly dependant on how the induvidual store is managed.
Well, I foresee a short period where publishers will attempt to go back to blaming piracy.
They're probably going to blame pirates, because, you see, because of them they have to first develop and then run all that DRM. Those servers cost money. 24/7, 365. And those costs, you see, you tack them on the game price, like so, and Abrakadabra, 70 $ for a game.
They're probably going to blame pirates, because, you see, because of them they have to first develop and then run all that DRM. Those servers cost money. 24/7, 365. And those costs, you see, you tack them on the game price, like so, and Abrakadabra, 70 $ for a game.