That must be your inner dumbass saying that. Because everyone who watched Firefly loved it. And if they didn't, they have no souls.Casual Shinji said:
Joss Whedon. You poor man.
- Thread starter ethaninja
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Honestly, don't feel sorry for Joss Whedon. I don't.
I love the majority of his shows, Firefly and Dr. Horrible being the best, but how can you explain so many series being cancelled by the same guy? It isn't a conspiracy, the guy simply does not make shows that connect with a large enough audience, unfortunately. Not saying that's bad if he's making what he wants to make, but he is in a business that requires ratings and income, so it can't all be about him.
Plus, he's an awful whiner. Nothing that goes wrong is ever his fault.
Buffy had a good, long run, as did Angel. Dollhouse wasn't all that great from the getgo... Pretty much, the only show he's made that was cancelled before its time was Firefly, which apparently everybody loved... After it went off air.
Don't worry about Joss. He's got the New Avengers movie, he's working on Dr. Horrible part 2... He's got plenty going right now. He'll come back soon with a very good, or at least decent (Dollhouse's case) premise for a show, get a season or two out of it, have it get cancelled... And then we'll all be back here with another thread about how bad we all feel for Joss Whedon.
I love the majority of his shows, Firefly and Dr. Horrible being the best, but how can you explain so many series being cancelled by the same guy? It isn't a conspiracy, the guy simply does not make shows that connect with a large enough audience, unfortunately. Not saying that's bad if he's making what he wants to make, but he is in a business that requires ratings and income, so it can't all be about him.
Plus, he's an awful whiner. Nothing that goes wrong is ever his fault.
Buffy had a good, long run, as did Angel. Dollhouse wasn't all that great from the getgo... Pretty much, the only show he's made that was cancelled before its time was Firefly, which apparently everybody loved... After it went off air.
Don't worry about Joss. He's got the New Avengers movie, he's working on Dr. Horrible part 2... He's got plenty going right now. He'll come back soon with a very good, or at least decent (Dollhouse's case) premise for a show, get a season or two out of it, have it get cancelled... And then we'll all be back here with another thread about how bad we all feel for Joss Whedon.
That would have been bad ass. If you care to know they did continue it in comic book form. The series much like Joss' other series continue on in comic form and do pretty well. I've never read any of them, but I have friends that swear by them.ethaninja said:Aye, but I would have given anything just to see that last battleDarkwolf9 said:
Dollhouse suffered from a very bad name that made it sound like it was nothing but hookers and gratuitous fan service. The real premise actually wasn't that bad.Casual Shinji said:
Firefly, I've never watched, but I've heard things about it, and it sounds hilarious.
I didn't know Angel was canceled. I thought it just ended. Though, to be honest, knowing it was canceled makes sense to me - it was getting pretty...uh...let's just say "silly" in the last season or two. And not silly in the good way like it had been in the first seasons. Silly like I would watch an episode and be thinking, "Really? That's really where you want to go with this? ... Really?"
I think the content it was delving into toward the end works better in comic form anyway.
Firefly: as mentioned above, lots of network bull happened to it. It's not godly the way some fans make it out to be, but it is a highly entertaining series and I recommend it to anyone interested in the genre.
I've heard nothing but bad things about Dollhouse. Never seen it. *shrug*
I don't think the guy's in a situation where "Poor Joss" actually fits. He does alright.
I think the content it was delving into toward the end works better in comic form anyway.
Firefly: as mentioned above, lots of network bull happened to it. It's not godly the way some fans make it out to be, but it is a highly entertaining series and I recommend it to anyone interested in the genre.
I've heard nothing but bad things about Dollhouse. Never seen it. *shrug*
I don't think the guy's in a situation where "Poor Joss" actually fits. He does alright.
Yes, Joss's biggest problem is that he won't leave FOX. As far as I've heard, he doesn't leave FOX because no other network is willing to give him as much money as FOX is. My question is: If FOX is so willing to pick Joss up in the first place, and give him money to produce his shows, why are they always so quick to cancel his shows? By now they know he has a large fan base, but then they're so picky with how high his ratings have to be. But that's just how FOX rolls. I'll never understand it, but will always look forward to whatever Joss throws my way.
Despite my love of firefly, I would not really want them to have made more than 3 seasons. Only because Alan Tudyk said somewhere that if Firefly had made more episodes than he would have liked to die dramatically (similar to how he went in Serenity) somewhere around season 3 and I don't think I would have been able to keep my interest in the show without Wash or indeed the entire original crew. If more season's had happened and they had been able to throw enough money at Alan to make him stay, than ya defiantly, pump out more fireflymeganmeave said:
I don't really have anything to say for Angel or Dollhouse as I have seen neither.
I just know alot of actors that are very thankful to Joss for giving them their break. Sara Michelle Gellar, Eliza Dushku, Seth Green, Alyson Hannigan all got their big starts in Buffy.
I was never the biggest fan of Dollhouse, didn't see to many episodes, but Firefly is hands down one of the best shows ever aired, in my humble little opinion. As good as it was, I'm kinda glad they cancelled it, and didn't have time to run it into the ground (I'm thinking of the episode of Angel when they got turned into muppets, or something along those lines).Casual Shinji said:
My justification for believing I'm right is that everyone I've ever shown Firefly to has also loved it. Very wide variety of people that.
Only Firefly and Dollhouse were axed, and he is directing a move. I think he is doing ok.
I want to hurt you.Donnyp said:
I'd say his stuff tends to get cancelled because it's directed at a very specific audience type.ethaninja said:
Reality tv and stuff like that tends to keep getting churned out because it's stuff people will flick on the tv as background noise while their doing other things, or watch because they've had a long boring day and need to not think about things for a while.
Stuff like firefly? It requires you to pay attention to what's going on. And to be honest, if peole want to pay attention to a show badly enough, they'll buy it on dvd so they don't have to sit through 30mins of ads between 5mins of footage.
I've heard that the man is sort of a drama queen.
the main reason Angel was cancelled was because he gave fox and ultimatium and they called him on it.
I don't know the details as to why firefly was canceled other than the fact that it had horrible ratings and didn't become popular till after it was canceled
doll house was an intresting idea but Whedon handled it wrong and it just endded up being boring. It might have picked up if it had another season but fox isn't the sort of network you put experimental high concept shows on.
I like Whedons style of writing and his sense of humor but i think he may have let his sucsess with buffy go to his head.
I, like so many others, do wish that Fire Fly had stuck around longer.
the main reason Angel was cancelled was because he gave fox and ultimatium and they called him on it.
I don't know the details as to why firefly was canceled other than the fact that it had horrible ratings and didn't become popular till after it was canceled
doll house was an intresting idea but Whedon handled it wrong and it just endded up being boring. It might have picked up if it had another season but fox isn't the sort of network you put experimental high concept shows on.
I like Whedons style of writing and his sense of humor but i think he may have let his sucsess with buffy go to his head.
I, like so many others, do wish that Fire Fly had stuck around longer.
Another problem, from what I understand, is that his shows are terribly expensive to make. They are definitely worth every penny in quality, but you then have to convince advertisers and viewers to support the show. Of course, these shows are popular with people like us who really enjoy sci-fi/fantasy/horror, and for many shows such as Star Trek, BS:G, and the Stargate series, that's enough to keep the show going for a good long time. But Whedon shows demand a huge budget, and if the network and advertisers aren't confident enough that they can pull in more viewers than the die-hard fans, the show gets the ax because it's just not financially sustainable. I heard that at least one episode of Firefly cost over $2 million to make. So while part of it is indeed being at FOX, which doesn't seem to trust a good sci-fi show pulling in sustainable ratings (and also makes huge f***-ups like the scheduling errors on Firefly), part of it is also Whedon not keeping his production costs down. Sacrifices will have to be made on both sides if he wants to keep his shows going. I can see Buffy and Angel being relatively low-cost series, but I think Firefly ranks up there as being one of the highest-cost sci-fi series to make, and from watching season 1 of Dollhouse, it can't have been cheap to make either.
Joss doesn't deserve anyone's pity. He's doing just fine. I fail to see how a man who goes back to the same network that canceled his previous niche show with yet another niche show that also gets canceled is anything but stupid. He has never taken any of the blame when his endeavors go south. Alien Resurrection was written by Joss, and it sucks balls. He blames the director, the cast, the movie studio, etc. but can't maybe just admit that he wrote a crappy script full of dialogue that doesn't really suit the Alien universe in any way.