JRPG: Roleplaying game? Or Statistics-Strategy Micromanagement Game?

[BirdBornAsBee]

I have been re-defining this game genre, JRPG, and this is becoming more and more solid to me after I got Lost Odyssey couple days ago.

Not that it is bad, but there is rarely any choice you can make in a JRPG that can directly influence the outcome of the story, the characters often do things that you don't want them to do. They also always force you to take other characters into your party even if you like them or not. How is that... roleplaying when you don't have a choice that influence the story? This is becoming more and more true recently.

This idea hits me when I was playing Fallout (I don't remember which one), the choices I can make in the game just make me feel so immersive, isn't it how a roleplaying game should be? You are able to put yourself in the character's place and act as the character in the game? That is the definition of roleplaying!

In JRPG, you move the characters from one place to another with no dialog option, the only option/choice you can make in a JRPG is the character's equipment and stats, that seems much more like a micromanagement game to me, am I right?

Unless somebody can provide me more convincing argument, I will be calling JRPG SSMG from now on.

 

[oliveira8]

Bah this old boring arguement again?

Look western RPG's like to make the player have moral choises(they all fail at it, might as well not put them) and big open worlds.

Japanese RPG's are more like a cinematic role playing experience with more input on the stories.

 

[BirdBornAsBee]

I am new to the forum so I wouldn't know.

Cinematic experience, so you are playing the game as the audience but not the characters, that's not roleplaying.

 

[About To Crash]

Bah this old boring arguement again?

Look western RPG's like to make the player have moral choises(they all fail at it, might as well not put them) and big open worlds.

Japanese RPG's are more like a cinematic role playing experience with more input on the stories.

I also find that JRPGs tend to give long winded explanations for events in the story that amount to not really explaining anything anyway. Mostly, they could say "Magic" and move on, which is what I usually find Western RPGs do.

 

[quack35]

Radiata Stories had a big choice right in the middle, it changed the outcome of the story greatly. And it wasn't a "good" or "evil" choice. It was very morally ambiguous. So obviously there are exceptions to your generalizations.

 

[yeah_so_no]

*yawn* Yeah, this is new. Bashing of JRPGs for not being just like western ones. But, oh, a new and belittling acronym! I'm sure everyone will immediately take to it.

Keep tilting at those windmills!

 

[Fightgarr]

Look, you're new here. I understand that. Please use the search button before creating a thread. Its a good habit to get into. Things like this are avoided that way. We have had this discussion (and by discussion I mean haphazard flame war) time and time again and its always the same people. Half of it is people just parroting Yahtzee so lets just leave it be.
And by the same people I mean its Omni defending them every time.

 

[BirdBornAsBee]

Radiata Stories had a big choice right in the middle, it changed the outcome of the story greatly. And it wasn't a "good" or "evil" choice. It was very morally ambiguous. So obviously there are exceptions to your generalizations.

I see, I will do some research on it.

It came up a couple years ago, didn't it? Well, then it makes a good exception to my generalization, because I am mostly generalizing the recent JRPGs.

 

[BirdBornAsBee]

Look, you're new here. I understand that. Please use the search button before creating a thread. Its a good habit to get into. Things like this are avoided that way. We have had this discussion (and by discussion I mean haphazard flame war) time and time again and its always the same people. Half of it is people just parroting Yahtzee so lets just leave it be.
And by the same people I mean its Omni defending them every time.

I did, but... keywords, keywords, keywords.

 

[Vargas19]

You should try playing some of the Shin Megami Tensei games. Nocturne has multiple endings depending of your choices during the game. It's actually more complex and interesting than that, so you should do some research.

Oh, Persona 4 also has moments that your choices affect the storyline.

 

[BirdBornAsBee]

You should try playing some of the Shin Megami Tensei games. Nocturne has multiple endings depending of your choices during the game. It's actually more complex and interesting than that, so you should do some research.

Oh, Persona 4 also has moments that your choices affect the storyline.

Hey, I have actually heard a lot of good news about Shin Megami Tensei, if I have the chance I will try it for a bit. But I am not going to try Persona 4, I hate J-pop culture.

 

[Shepard's Shadow]

snip

I completely agree. When I think of an RPG I think of creating my own character and and saving everybody or killing them all, not follow someone who looks like they fell out of a Final Fantasy game and watch them make decisions for me.

 

[Vargas19]

You should try playing some of the Shin Megami Tensei games. Nocturne has multiple endings depending of your choices during the game. It's actually more complex and interesting than that, so you should do some research.

Oh, Persona 4 also has moments that your choices affect the storyline.

Hey, I have actually heard a lot of good news about Shin Megami Tensei, if I have the chance I will try it for a bit. But I am not going to try Persona 4, I hate J-pop culture.

Hm, actually, I didn't see much of that in Persona 4. Well, there's a singer in your party, but that's all can think of. Maybe it's because I don't know exactly what is J-Pop culture.
I still recommend Persona. I thought the gameplay was great, the characters are interesting and have interesting inner conflicts, the plot kept me hooked till the end and the soundtrack was very good. I mean, the game is pretty different from your average JRPG.
That's my opinion, at least.

 

[Woem]

I was wondering the same things a while back, but also for the likes of Diable II for instance. Is it really an action RPG? Isn't Final Fantasy just an adventure game like Zelda, but only with more stats? And I believe that all information you seek is on the wikipedia article on Action RPGs [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Console_role-playing_game].

Here's the interesting bits:

Most CRPGs place a strong emphasis on storyline-driven arcs and character development, with the payoff almost always based on storytelling instead of experiencing a more dynamic world via nonlinear gameplay. [...] Unlike most computer role-playing games, at the beginning of a console role-playing game the player is usually not given the option of customizing a character or making decisions on his/her nature or background. Instead, he/she is offered one or more predefined characters to play as for the rest of the game.

A console role-playing game is a video game genre that has its origin rooted in video game consoles and includes game mechanics and, frequently, settings derived from those of traditional role-playing games. [...] An action role-playing game is a video game based on role-playing combat systems, and typified by a heavy emphasis on real-time combat against large numbers of enemies. Games in the genre often simplify or remove non-combat attributes associated with more traditional role-playing games, such as charisma (the ability to manipulate enemies socially in lieu of fighting them).

So in both definitions it becomes clear that they aren't full-blowns RPGs but they are derives from the RPG genre, especially when it comes down to the stat-driven character development.

 

[BirdBornAsBee]

You should try playing some of the Shin Megami Tensei games. Nocturne has multiple endings depending of your choices during the game. It's actually more complex and interesting than that, so you should do some research.

Oh, Persona 4 also has moments that your choices affect the storyline.

Hey, I have actually heard a lot of good news about Shin Megami Tensei, if I have the chance I will try it for a bit. But I am not going to try Persona 4, I hate J-pop culture.

Hm, actually, I didn't see much of that in Persona 4. Well, there's a singer in your party, but that's all can think of. Maybe it's because I don't know exactly what is J-Pop culture.
I still recommend Persona. I thought the gameplay was great, the characters are interesting and have interesting inner conflicts, the plot kept me hooked till the end and the soundtrack was very good. I mean, the game is pretty different from your average JRPG.
That's my opinion, at least.

I think he justmeans Japanese culture, because it's a game set in japan with very japanese themes, and it's a spin off of a series based on a book written in japan. (The original Shin Megami Tensei was a book)

No, that's not what I wrote. I meant I am not going to try Persona 4 because I hate J-pop culture.

 

[Kelthurin]

Bottom line is thus; We call them JRPG's. The world calls them JRPG's. You can redefine the genre all you want, but it's not going to take.
Your new acronym for it? Yeah, it stinks.
If you dislike the story-driven roleplaying you should really just stick to oblivion and fallout 3. I don't really see what you're griping about. Western RPG's have lots of choices that influence the outcome of the story, like you want. JRPG's don't. Now, I'm looking at a pretty clear solution here. And it doesn't include making grand plans to redefine a whole genre and in the process making yourself look like just another console tard that was touched in the naughty place by someone claiming to be sephiroth when you were young.

If you keep winding yourself up about it by playing JRPG's though, that's when we have a problem.