JRPGs, anime, and hateful main characters

[Dr. Crawver]

I'm currently playing through "the last remnant", and am so far enjoying it. It has an interesting take on the turn based method of gameplay so many JRPGs adopt. There's just one major flaw in it I've seen so far.

The main protagonist is completely hate-able.

He never thinks things through, always seems to misunderstand things that, at least to me, seem incredibly obvious and basic, and all around whines when people don't help him find his sister, even though he has the help of the fucking ruler of a country, who quite clearly has some other things to worry about than one little girl.

This got me thinking though, most main characters I've seen in eastern, and particularly Japanese media, often have this trait. I personally loved FFXII (I know I'm a minority there), but I simply could not like Vaan, and was actually shocked when I found out that originally Basch, a character I really enjoyed, was meant to be the main character, but they made him a supporting character so they could have a more traditional protagonist.

It seems to be the same in anime as well. I will admit I'm not a huge anime fan, but I'm on the council of the gaming society at my university, and our sister society is the anime society, so I end up going to most of their sessions anyway (as well as watching a choice few anime that I will enjoy), and the vast majority of male protagonists seem to be complete dumb-asses who refuse to understand anyone elses point of view, and a large amount of character conflict is caused simply because they won't explain anything.

I dunno, I just find it weird that these always seem to be the traits Japanese protagonists have. What do you thin escapist? Do you agree with me, disagree? What's your take on it all?

 

[Pink Gregory]

If they acted reasonably, then there'd not be much of a game there.

It's probably unneccessary padding, and probably isn't used for the sake of character growth, but that's probably the basic reason for it. It's like instead of going back and changing the plot to accommodate better characters, it sees the plot as written in stones and tries to move other stuff around in an attempt to reconfigure the immutable plot.

As for 'likeable' protagonists, I've never personally really believed that protagonists have to be likeable, just compelling. Though I can understand why continuous bad decisions for the sake of extending the gameplay can be galling.

 

[Dr. Crawver]

If they acted reasonably, then there'd not be much of a game there.

It's probably unneccessary padding, and probably isn't used for the sake of character growth, but that's probably the basic reason for it. It's like instead of going back and changing the plot to accommodate better characters, it sees the plot as written in stones and tries to move other stuff around in an attempt to reconfigure the immutable plot.

As for 'likeable' protagonists, I've never personally really believed that protagonists have to be likeable, just compelling. Though I can understand why continuous bad decisions for the sake of extending the gameplay can be galling.

It's a reasonable point, but sometimes the characters make bad decisions for no reason, and they don't even change the outcome, just how much I dislike then.

To give you an example, early on in the game, you actually find the kidnapper. The king suggests they sneak up on them, no doubt causing the fight anyway, but your character decides it's a better idea to simply rush forward screaming. There's zero reason for it on a mechanical level, it's done for a character reason, and is just annoying when they refuse to listen to why they're being stupid.

 

[Queen Michael]

I gotta agree with you -- I almost never watch anime, but I read a shitload of manga (at least two books every day and usually more), and I really dislike the typical "idiot hero." It works sometimes, but too often it just makes me feel angry, upset and in the mood for candy.[footnote]I'm often in the mood for candy.[/footnote]

 

[IllumInaTIma]

Well, I'm not really familiar with animes and the only JRPGs I've played were Persona 3, 4, Atelier Totori and Nocturne. In all these games, except Atelier Totori, all protagonists were more or less blank slates whose character depended on players choice.

inb4 The Wykydtron complaining about Persona 3 male protagonist

 

[hazabaza1]

Eh, I generally don't find the regular idiots that hate-able in a dumb way. Normally it's the silly villains.

Seriously, White Knight Chronicles, the villains are discussing a plan to kill the main character before he gets too powerful, so to stop his progression they plan to... KILL HIM!
That's right, their plan to kill him IS THAT THEY'RE GOING TO KILL HIM. WHAT.

 

[FalloutJack]

They don't all have them, Crawver, but there are a good number of them that are precisely what you're complaining about. In your case, the trick is to find the ones that work for YOU.

 

[Cheesepower5]

Kaim from Lost Oddysey has a pretty good head on his shoulders, even if he comes off as overly brooding.

 

[BazaarFawkes]

Yukiteru from Future Diary.
The kid wouldn't stop crying or whinning. Granted he is 14 years old so all the nonsense going around might be overwhelming, but I couldn't feel that at all from the character. I keep trying to tell myself, "He's just a kid, of course he is going to feel this way" but I can't. Perhaps the fear and anxiety was overdone so I got annoyed at it.
Thats not to say his personality didn't improve, it just (in my opinion) didn't happen fast enough.

 

[Dr. Cakey]

This got me thinking though, most main characters I've seen in eastern, and particularly Japanese media, often have this trait. I personally loved FFXII (I know I'm a minority there), but I simply could not like Vaan, and was actually shocked when I found out that originally Basch, a character I really enjoyed, was meant to be the main character, but they made him a supporting character so they could have a more traditional protagonist.

I'd actually heard Ashe had been intended to be the main character, but I can't find any information regarding main character changes on the wiki. At the very least, Vaan went through several redesigns to make him more appealing to their demographic (put that in air-quotes if you like). Hell, if FFXII had been released in 2011 instead of 2006, Ashe probably would have been the main character...for exactly the same reasons.

 

[Pirate Of PC Master race]

I never played much of JRPGs, I will only cover this part.

the vast majority of male protagonists seem to be complete dumb-asses who refuse to understand anyone elses point of view, and a large amount of character conflict is caused simply because they won't explain anything.

I would say it reflects reality since I think that majority of male seem to be complete dumb-asses who refuse to understand anyone else's point of view. And if you are looking at the mainstream anime which is popular amongst 12 year old boys, you will never run out of examples. Inuyasha, Hitman reborn, Onepiece, Bleach, naturo seems like pretty good example. All of them which I consider as the bastard children of Dragonball Z until they made more series out of it.

Only times I tolerate the forementioned characteristics are when:
1. it is deliberately quirky and centered around humor and not tits or fighting.
Only one I know is Chromatic highschool.

2. When stupid people dies.
Last time I checked, this happened in Deathnote. Personally I liked it because a. main character was a SMART cold blooded bastard and b. he killed off lots of stupid people.
If you want something other than what I consider as shallow and bastard children of DBZ, then you need to look look slightly deeper Though I wonder what will remain after the removal of tits, fighting, romance and etc..
If you are +18, I recommend Battle Royale or Bokurano.

 

[Sehnsucht Engel]

I think you're playing bad JRPGs and watching bad anime... At least, when it comes to characters. The only anime I've watched that had a stupid main character that worked was Welcome to the N.H.K, and I wanted to punch him in the face at several points. At the same time it worked really well, because he was supposed to be socially inept and the stupid stuff he did was because of interracting with others. It's not the same when the character acts retarded because of bad writing, which it seems to be in the case you're describing.

I'm playing Xenosaga: Der wille zur macht right now, and I must say they have some great characters. There's no one that comes off as stupid, even if there's one whiny guy, but he's not a main character in that way. COS-MOS is already becoming one of my favourite characters in a JRPG, might end up as one of my favourite characters in any media if she continues the way she has been. Persona 4 has good characters too, though the main character is a blank slate, but I played him so I got the best grades in school.

 

[BazaarFawkes]

Eh... None of those series's had the absurd problems that DBZ had. Like the introduction of power levels to show how stupid power levels are as one.

Naruto was going along fine until the Pein arc, when Kishimoto stopped taking his anti-stupid pills. It hasn't recovered, and most fans just want the series to end for some closure.

Bleach had a good protagonist, even if he did have a nasty case of "Hidden Power Until My Life Is In Danger" syndrome, and the series would have been good had it ended around a year ago, when the bad guy died. But nope, they went full blown Inuyasha, and you NEVER go full Inuyasha. Aizen was also a giant load of bullshit and chips, but whatever.

If you're talking about absurd power/destruction in Naruto, I completely agree. Especially now with the Fourth Ninja War. The sheer level of destruction (granted, they were from legendary individuals) is crazy. There was actually a mushroom cloud at one point and I couldn't help but wonder "What the $%^@ just happened?!" and smile. xD

Never watched Bleach so I'm not too familiar what happens in there, but I do agree with the "Hidden Power Until My Life Is In Danger" syndrome you're talking about. The problem I always have with that concept is that you cannot determine whether or not if its a genuine ability/trait the character possesses or its just a Deus Ex Machina trope being used.
Sometimes the character does genuinly have that power within them that they don't realise until the end. Kind of like forgiving your past mistakes before dying therefore having a greater resolve to not die. Even if there is an explanation after that event, a lot of the times it still feels (for me) like a cheat code was used. A tad hard to describe but thats the gist of it.

 

[crimson sickle2]

Intolerable lead characters are just a sign of a bad story-teller. That said, there are many different kinds of lead character a writer may use, so just keep an eye out for one you genuinely enjoy. When that doesn't work out, and you lose hope, rewatch Baccano!

 

[Fox12]

I'm currently playing through "the last remnant", and am so far enjoying it. It has an interesting take on the turn based method of gameplay so many JRPGs adopt. There's just one major flaw in it I've seen so far.

The main protagonist is completely hate-able.

He never thinks things through, always seems to misunderstand things that, at least to me, seem incredibly obvious and basic, and all around whines when people don't help him find his sister, even though he has the help of the fucking ruler of a country, who quite clearly has some other things to worry about than one little girl.

This got me thinking though, most main characters I've seen in eastern, and particularly Japanese media, often have this trait. I personally loved FFXII (I know I'm a minority there), but I simply could not like Vaan, and was actually shocked when I found out that originally Basch, a character I really enjoyed, was meant to be the main character, but they made him a supporting character so they could have a more traditional protagonist.

It seems to be the same in anime as well. I will admit I'm not a huge anime fan, but I'm on the council of the gaming society at my university, and our sister society is the anime society, so I end up going to most of their sessions anyway (as well as watching a choice few anime that I will enjoy), and the vast majority of male protagonists seem to be complete dumb-asses who refuse to understand anyone elses point of view, and a large amount of character conflict is caused simply because they won't explain anything.

I dunno, I just find it weird that these always seem to be the traits Japanese protagonists have. What do you thin escapist? Do you agree with me, disagree? What's your take on it all?

It has less to do with culture, and more to do with bad writing. Although the efiminant male character is seen as more attractive in asian cultures, there are several major factors that have a larger impact. First of all, the target audience for many anime shows are teenage boys. As a result they tend to be angst ridden, and and reflect the emotional issues that teenagers deal with. As for conflict resulting from characters being unable to express themselves properly, this is common in western media as well, and results from poor writing. Most of the drama from the walking dead could be addressed in five minutes if the characters could simply express themselves in a rational way.

 

[Pink Gregory]

As for conflict resulting from characters being unable to express themselves properly, this is common in western media as well, and results from poor writing. Most of the drama from the walking dead could be addressed in five minutes if the characters could simply express themselves in a rational way.

Well, yeah, but why shouldn't a writer use those flaws in a character to create conflict? Isn't that kind of the point of a flawed character? Oh I agree that there are hackneyed and predictable ways of doing it, but going so far as to say conflict arising from character flaws is always resultant of poor writing seems like something of a flawed statement in itself.

 

[Yuuki]

One thing I never get about anime/JRPG's is the ages of the characters compared to their physical appearance.

Both of these guys are apparently 15:

WUT