JRPGs turn based or real time?
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Turn Based when done right, normally turn based can be dull and grindy but when there is a reason to think things through like the fantastic One More Turn mechanic of the MegaTen games or just an actual challenge it's great to actually think things through and strategise. I do like some real time stuff like the latest Star Ocean (even if the terrible plot and characters forced me to quit the game early) but it becomes far too counter-intuative when things get hectic sometimes forcing you to go through menus while getting your ass handed to you.
That is what I think is killing JRPGs and a lot of Japanese is the lack of understanding of why and how game mechanics work, making games that are either way too simple or way to complex. I'm of the opinion if it aint broke don't fix, they should be thinking of ways to make turn based more interesting like the previously mentioned MegaTen games or the tactical character use of Final Fantasy X rather than making horrific hybrids of Western and Eastern design choices that pleases neither markets.
That is what I think is killing JRPGs and a lot of Japanese is the lack of understanding of why and how game mechanics work, making games that are either way too simple or way to complex. I'm of the opinion if it aint broke don't fix, they should be thinking of ways to make turn based more interesting like the previously mentioned MegaTen games or the tactical character use of Final Fantasy X rather than making horrific hybrids of Western and Eastern design choices that pleases neither markets.
If I'm honest Resonance of Fate bored the crap out of me. I just felt like I was doing the same thing over and over again, literally having the same tactics in every fight and after about 10 hours or so in I felt like the game had nothing new to show me.4RM3D said:
However I did like the battle animations and I thought the character movement and placement were interesting mechanics. I think more turn based games should incorperate something like that as gave you something new to think about it made youin battles and it feel more active even if you weren't doing much in reality.
I like turn based! I also like real time. It depends on the greater battle system and how it's done and how all the different elements come together.
For instance, I didn't really like FF13's battle system (I actually have borderline positive feelings on that game in general and mostly enjoyed my time with it, for the record.) Not because it was real-timey and fast paced, but because I found there was very limited control for that much quick thinking. Something like the Tales series, however, is fantastic fun.
Likewise, a lot of "classical" turn based systems, like the SNES Final Fantasies ... eh, I love those games, but not for the battles, which never, ever seem to end quickly enough. But something like the recent Persona games, with the press attack system, makes turn based combat feel reactive, punchy, quick and fun -- moreso than most modern real time systems. I also adored FFX's battle system, despite hating ... basically everything else about that game. The way turns were structured made the speed stat crucial and let you plan your attacks accordingly.
Basically I like any system that feels quick and reactive, which isn't limited to the turn-based or real-time definition. Persona 4 feels more punchy than Final Fantasy 13. I like games that feel tactical and fast-paced at the same time. I hope jRPGs keep evolving themselves along these lines.
For instance, I didn't really like FF13's battle system (I actually have borderline positive feelings on that game in general and mostly enjoyed my time with it, for the record.) Not because it was real-timey and fast paced, but because I found there was very limited control for that much quick thinking. Something like the Tales series, however, is fantastic fun.
Likewise, a lot of "classical" turn based systems, like the SNES Final Fantasies ... eh, I love those games, but not for the battles, which never, ever seem to end quickly enough. But something like the recent Persona games, with the press attack system, makes turn based combat feel reactive, punchy, quick and fun -- moreso than most modern real time systems. I also adored FFX's battle system, despite hating ... basically everything else about that game. The way turns were structured made the speed stat crucial and let you plan your attacks accordingly.
Basically I like any system that feels quick and reactive, which isn't limited to the turn-based or real-time definition. Persona 4 feels more punchy than Final Fantasy 13. I like games that feel tactical and fast-paced at the same time. I hope jRPGs keep evolving themselves along these lines.
Im all for Turn-based. it needs a comeback to games. Though I did like the hybrid between Turn-based and realtime in FFXIII
Yes, the ATB system can be very good. It forces the player to think on their feet.Ragnarok185 said:
Well the reply I was thinking of just vanished to be replaced by a loud voice in my head screaming "THERE'S A DISGAEA 4?!". That's about as quick as I've ever gone from this forum to amazon.co.uk.
I much prefer turn-based combat. I like taking the time to think about what I want to do and if I did that in real time chances are I'd be very dead. Plus when I get rushed I do incredibly stupid things.
I much prefer turn-based combat. I like taking the time to think about what I want to do and if I did that in real time chances are I'd be very dead. Plus when I get rushed I do incredibly stupid things.
I prefer the turn based ones personally. However I am not the biggest fan of JRPGs nowdays, despite liking the few that I played in the 90s.
However reading this makes me want to play the wizardry series... It seems to be the origional inspiration of JRPGs. The only reason I think that is because of the (very difficult) turn based party battles, and ALSO that there are japan-only super famicom ports of the first 6 wizardry games.
And if you look hard enough, you might be able to find translated versions of them...
However reading this makes me want to play the wizardry series... It seems to be the origional inspiration of JRPGs. The only reason I think that is because of the (very difficult) turn based party battles, and ALSO that there are japan-only super famicom ports of the first 6 wizardry games.
And if you look hard enough, you might be able to find translated versions of them...
That is because Threads of Fate is different in this aspect also. With classic RPGs you get stronger because you get access to more skills and better equipment. Then depending on the RPG you gain levels (which isn't always much of an increase in strength). You get stronger because of items and level, not so much because you are becoming more skilled (IRL). There is a small learning curve, but after that you have the same skill level (IRL) through the game.Deathninja19 said:
With Threads of Fate you don't really get much stronger in game (until after the end). But you do get more skilled (IRL). I felt that I was continuously challenged to try different things and become better. There were moments when I mastered the combat system, but then further into the game I had to adjust my tactics.
In the end it is still repetitive I guess, but it didn't bother me, because I always found it challenging and engaging. That includes completing the arena and the extra dungeon, containing the super bosses. Although that was a bit of a grind. But that is optional.
Well the general consensus on FFX-2 is kinda shitty story, a bit too girly and a good combat system very few people feel differently about the combat system or else aren't vocal about it.Ando85 said:
OT: I really do not care about the combat system as long as the one they choose works and is implemented well I will play anything. One thing that puts me off some is the UI or rather the arrangement of the UI and a perfect example of this is FFXIII and the way it lists the skills which made them awkward to get to quickly.
Oh yeah I can see how you could enjoy it as it was a very unique game in a genre that is oversaturated with dull clones, I really wanted to like it but sadly it left me cold. For me part of the appeal of JRPG is the variety of skills and a sense of character progression but then again I think I gave up on it too easy so maybe if I find Resonance cheap while shopping I'll pick it up and try it again.4RM3D said:
I enjoy both RT and turn-based depending on mood. Sometimes I want fast action, other times I want to drone away at my own pace. For top-down RPGs I generally want turn-based. I like the feeling of getting maximum efficiency out of my characters. It also allows for deeper strategies. First-person RPGs go hand in hand with real time.
I dont mind either turn based,realtime or a hybrid of the two (or anything else they may come up with) providing it is done well (although if it is truly real time I would say it is no longer an rpg or at most only a hybrid).
I think this person gives a pretty good definition of what an RPG is (I dont entirely agree but it makes an interesting read, well kind of interesting)
www.rpgfan.com/editorials/old/1998/0007.html
I think this person gives a pretty good definition of what an RPG is (I dont entirely agree but it makes an interesting read, well kind of interesting)
www.rpgfan.com/editorials/old/1998/0007.html
Depends on the game. I liked the Devil Survivor implementation of turn-based, although real-time has the benefit of co-op (Tales Series FTW!).
I wish they did more often anyway. Give me a good Zork-type game and I'll buy it any day.NedroidPrime said:
I'm sure there's some random group making such games all over the place for the DS somewhere. I recently found 9 Hours, 9 Persons, 9 Doors and that's a horror/survival story game with similar elements to old text adventures/ point&click adventures (more like 'Return to Zork' than the first three).
give me either turn-based or full blown action...not a fan of ATB or any other hybrid system, they often turn into the worst of both worlds.
my favorites have been the ATB (FF7) and CTB (FFX) systems so far.
although the ATB can boil down to attack over and over, it doesn't have to be played that way and the frantic pace of battle can make for some interesting tactics (and mistakes). however, the way characters can be equipped or upgraded makes a big difference too. They can be static in the abilities they have (say FF4) so you always know who can cast what spell or use what ability, but that can get stale fast. Or they can be like FFX-2, where you have to keep track of what abilities each of the girls has for every single job, which means you can forget who has what ability easily which can be frustrating. honestly i think the materia system from FF7 is the most balanced that way. i can choose who has what, and can switch it all around as i see fit, but that restore materia i leveled will always have cure3 versus switching to a white mage only to realize yuna didn't level white mage enough yet to have it while rikku did.
and for CTB, i liked that in FFX i could take the time to see how each move i make affects the turn order without a time crunch.
not to say classic turn based doesn't have a place (FFT or FF1-3) when the games are designed around it and its limitations. FFXII had an awesome battle system for a while, but eventually all of the gambits were open and the characters could run on auto-pilot, killing the fun. i haven't tried FFXIII, but from what i've read, i'm not terribly interested in only being able to 'command' my allies via paradigms instead of completely controlling their actions.
although the ATB can boil down to attack over and over, it doesn't have to be played that way and the frantic pace of battle can make for some interesting tactics (and mistakes). however, the way characters can be equipped or upgraded makes a big difference too. They can be static in the abilities they have (say FF4) so you always know who can cast what spell or use what ability, but that can get stale fast. Or they can be like FFX-2, where you have to keep track of what abilities each of the girls has for every single job, which means you can forget who has what ability easily which can be frustrating. honestly i think the materia system from FF7 is the most balanced that way. i can choose who has what, and can switch it all around as i see fit, but that restore materia i leveled will always have cure3 versus switching to a white mage only to realize yuna didn't level white mage enough yet to have it while rikku did.
and for CTB, i liked that in FFX i could take the time to see how each move i make affects the turn order without a time crunch.
not to say classic turn based doesn't have a place (FFT or FF1-3) when the games are designed around it and its limitations. FFXII had an awesome battle system for a while, but eventually all of the gambits were open and the characters could run on auto-pilot, killing the fun. i haven't tried FFXIII, but from what i've read, i'm not terribly interested in only being able to 'command' my allies via paradigms instead of completely controlling their actions.