JRPGs

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uzo

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thedoclc said:
Interactivity
This one is simple. Much of a typical JRPG experience is spent watching (or reading!) exposition which the player takes in passively. Much of a typical WRPG - even one as dependent on conversation as Torment - is spent making decisions and interacting with the game world. Many players do not want to just watch the game talk to itself.
This is a great point. I lived in Japan for about 7 years, and it's interesting the things that are successful in Western countries, yet not there. The prime example is Lord of the Rings. The Japanese, for whatever reason, culturally, spiritually and even purely in an entertainment fashion, do not give a crap about LotR. It's possibly the most epic film series made in my lifetime (I was born after the Star Wars series started) .... and they watch it for 30 mins and give up. It just does not interest them in the slightest.

Something culturally does not connect - think of Frodo - he's comfortable, happy, has prospects in Hobbiton, comes from a wealthy family, and has lots of friends. He's the cool guy at school you all hated because he was popular and utterly without issues. The Japanese enjoy stability, and relish 'same old same old'. Frodo leaving this life of security and running off to fight Sauron is simply illogical to them. Sure, eventually Sauron is gonna come and enslave all the Hobbits too.

But the Japanese will think "Frodo is an insignificant runt - if anyone is gonna save us, it'll be the men of Gondor" and leave it at that. Westerners enjoy the underdog-to-saviour story arc, Japanese don't unless the underdog actually has some super bullshit uber power (despite strength of character, which is Frodo's ONLY strength - and he still needs Sam to carry him half the frickin' way to Mordor). But this super bullshit uber power means he ISN'T an underdog, he's just an underachiever. However, if the story pumped up Frodo's outcast nature, and gave him some super bullshit hadoken fireball power, or let Sting do some kind of laser attack that melts orcs' faces off, and gave him the strength to rape nazgul in single combat as long as he does his pre-attack "hhhwwwoooooooaaaaaAAAARRRRR!!!" power charge, it would have been a phenomenal hit.

Hmm .. come to think of it, the Japanese don't like underdogs, they like *underachievers* - a character who, if he bothers, will kick arse all the way to Mordor. A runty little hobbit with barely a sword to his name is called Link - the classic J-underachiever who, once given purpose, can butcher *LEGIONS* of professional soldiers despite being only about 13 years old. You wouldn't see Frodo doing that.
 

Chibz

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uzo said:
BLAM, CUTMAN!
ANd now, to blow this concept out of the water.

Marona. She IS talented (She's a chroma. She can see & communicate with "spirits". A rare gift in canon). What you start off doing is, well, the best she's capable of. With how few/weak the phantoms are that fight for her, and her lack of any real combat ability herself she starts out almost as useless as frodo is. But becomes more potent over the course of the game.

Not to mention, if you call her angsty I will laugh at you. I will laugh, and laugh and forget to breath then die.

On to Frodo. This is from someone who despises LOTR, so take it with a grain of salt.

Frodo isn't an underdog. He's an unbelievably whiny little *****. He doesn't WANT to carry the ring, he barely does anything all that heroic, and overall he's a radically underdeveloped character. Only beat in being underdeveloped by his life partner, Sam.

Strength of character? You mean "betray Sam when person of OBVIOUSLY questionable loyalty does a shallow attempt at making Sam look bad"?

As an added bonus, the songs "featured" in LOTR are annoying beyond belief. They're actually worse than the people who spam lyrics over the internet. Mostly because you have no rhythm to go with them, and how awful the lyrics are. Tolkien's attempts at music should be outlawed.
 

Ruiner87

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I don't dislike JRPG's as a genre, I just hate every single one that I've ever played. Maybe one day a good JRPG will come along and change my mind. A few reasons why I've disliked every JRPG I've played so far:

1. Reused character archtypes. Dear God, every single game just has the same reskinned characters, and none of them are particularly likeable. Maybe if I could actually relate to the characters, instead of them all being angsty pricks, I would actually enjoy the games. But when the game is focused on these characters, I find it hard to enjoy.

Conversely, western RPG's either have characters that I enjoy, such as Garrus, Thane and Wrex from Mass Effect. Either this, or the player character is the only character that is important to the narrative, and as a blank slate, I get to be in charge of their personality. As such, I automatically enjoy the character. Think of the player character in games such as The Elder Scrolls, or Fallout, or Commander Shepherd from Mass Effect, whose personality is predominantly decided by me.

2. Turn based combat. I don't hate turn based combat, or even dislike it. My problem is that certain JRPG's just do this absolutely horrendously.


That's pretty much it. Really, the thing that annoys me is that the games are so heavily focused on the story and the characters, despite the story usually being uninteresting and the characters being irritating. Extra points if the story is getting in the way of gameplay, with cutscenes every eighteen seconds.
 

Chibz

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Ruiner87 said:
I don't dislike JRPG's as a genre, I just hate every single one that I've ever played.
Tell you what, I'll take time out of my busy schedule of being an unlikable ***** and help you find JRPGs that you would enjoy. We should probably take this to PM's for that, though. And probably should happen after I sleep.
 

Hypertion

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typically its due to..

Turn based combat when its used,

art style that some people dont like,

people who dont like storys that you have to acually think heavly about, ie book depth vs action movie

there is a long list. but these are the major ones...

me i like both.. tho not entirely a fan of turn based.
 

Uncle_Brainhorn

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Zekksta said:
JRPG's are aimed at a higher class of people, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest to see that peasants don't enjoy them.



Picture related, and confirmed, as 100% fact.
Eh, 4/10. Keep trying.

As for me, the first JRPG I played was Phantasy Star IV. I loved it. I tried other JRPGs, and didn't really care for them. I beat FF7, but I quit partway through 9 and 10.

So no, I don't really like JRPGs.
 

YoUnG205

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Oct 13, 2009
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Well i dont think that any thing is wrong with jrpg's I have bought many of them and enjoy many of them, i also enjoy the western ones as well. i think the main problems that people have with the genre is the fact that they are mostly linear and have long cutscenes and narratives, another problem i believe that people may have is the fact that jrpg's have a reputaion for havin turned based combat, even though this is not always the case, and the last problem is one that yahtzee is contsantly reminding us of and that is the characters in many jrpg's, take for example FFXIII the characters in this game i found to be truly horrible and could staqnd any of them.
 

Ruiner87

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Zekksta said:
JRPG's are aimed at a higher class of people, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest to see that peasants don't enjoy them.



Picture related, and confirmed, as 100% fact.
>implying /v/ talks about video games
 

Heartcafe

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JRPGs are a lot harder and tend to be more grueling to play because a lot of times you need to grind for levels and the bosses can be unfair.

But not all JRPGs are like that. I personally think it's the play style that gets most people because the idea of attack-wait-attack-wait is a little too meh in terms of action,

I like it because I'm more of a tactical person and I like planning things out in my head. But I also enjoy WRPGs because they are usually full of huge environments, character customization and unique plots (sometimes.)
 

kaioshade

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I actually like both genres. I grew up playing old Pen and Paper D&D, so western style RPGs have a nice place for me, but i also love JRPGs as well. There really isnt a problem with liking both types.

Stereotypes exist in both Western and Eastern RPG games.
 

Iwata

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Hypertion said:
people who dont like storys that you have to acually think heavly about, ie book depth vs action movie
Tall comment coming from someone obviously lacking in grammatical skills.

Comments like the above are merely part of the reason I find the JRPG fanbase so hard to relate to.

At my local store, fans of games in general usually voice their appreciation of a game by saying "______ is really damn good!", and that's it.

The local JRPG fans (they do hang out separate from everyone else) say "______ is really good, much better than that (insert popular non-JRPG-game-name here) piece of shit!". And they do make sure to be within earshot of everyone else.

Not only that, but as I mentioned elsewhere, they have a nasty habit of coming over to the PC when we're talking about other games, and voicing how clearly retarded said game is. Last time, no joke, they fucking dissed Mortal Kombat because of how clearly inferior it is to whatever Naruto fighting game is out now! Maybe I'll try going over to their tables when they're playing Yu-Gi-Oh next time, and simply point and laugh, and comment on how Warhammer 40K would probably make them cry like little bitches.

My apologies if the above sounds somewhat angry. But the truth is, every weekend, for the two days it lasts, I have to deal with these people. And they've all but put me off ANYTHING Japanese for good.
 

Strain42

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RedEyesBlackGamer said:
There is nothing wrong with them. Some WRPGs fans just have a misguided notion that their games are inherently superior to JRPGs. Protip: they aren't.
That works both ways, y'know. In fact I know even MORE JRPG fans that claim all the Japanese ones are miles better.
 

Iwata

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Zekksta said:
Iwata said:
My apologies if the above sounds somewhat angry. But the truth is, every weekend, for the two days it lasts, I have to deal with these people. And they've all but put me off ANYTHING Japanese for goof.
Fucking lol'd.

Anyway, do you work at this store or are you a customer?
Both, you could say. I'm mainly a customer, but I tend to help out when needed and take care of the place when the owner is away.
 

AlternatePFG

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Strain42 said:
RedEyesBlackGamer said:
There is nothing wrong with them. Some WRPGs fans just have a misguided notion that their games are inherently superior to JRPGs. Protip: they aren't.
That works both ways, y'know. In fact I know even MORE JRPG fans that claim all the Japanese ones are miles better.
That really isn't a good argument. Of course there is going to be fans on both sides who claim their genre is better. Does the quality of the fanbase reflect the quality of the games themselves? If so, 99% of games would be terrible.
 

spartan231490

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Fanfic_warper said:
Ok, so I hear it all the time on Yahtzee's reviews and from a lot of other people on the forums, but I generally do want to know what people seem to have against JRPGs.

I actually have a hard time getting into the the western ones like Dragon Age, the Witcher or Mass Effect.

about the only Western RPGs I like so far are Fallout and Borderlands.

What is so bad about games like Final Fantasy (except VII, I do see plenty reason to hate on that one), Tales of Symphonia, Disgaea, and Kingdom Hearts?
The big thing that bugs me about JRPGs actually exists in the WRPGs you mentioned that you disliked. Multiple characters. I prefer being the one hero, not part of a team. It makes it seem like anyone can attain your level of skill, and if that's true, then why do you they need you. The other big problem I have with them is turn based combat. It removes almost all aspect of attack speed(IMO one of the most important parts of a battle) from the game, and it completely shatters my immersion, throws me right out of the game every time the opponent politely stops moving and says: "OK, you can attack me now." I only like 1 or maybe 2 games with turn based combat.
 

blademyth

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I've personally never been a fan of WRPGs because I don't play games to become that character and immerse myself in it. I play a game for some time sink of entertainment and an already built story, I basically consider RPGs interactive books/novels that I'm just reading/playing. Also, I actually feel like I'm breaking immersion more when I'm the actual character, because most dialog isn't engaging and you're silent, just picking options to ask. Also, I don't see the problem with random encounters, if you're out roaming the wilderness and you see a bear and its aggressive enough (doesn't need a reason) its going to attack you.
 

Strain42

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Strain42 said:
RedEyesBlackGamer said:
There is nothing wrong with them. Some WRPGs fans just have a misguided notion that their games are inherently superior to JRPGs. Protip: they aren't.
That works both ways, y'know. In fact I know even MORE JRPG fans that claim all the Japanese ones are miles better.
Seems you know one more person, because that's what RedEyes was saying. That JRPG's are better.
It's that line of reasoning that I took issue with. There is no BETTER in an argument like this. Both genres are plagued with a lot of the same mechanics, cliches and art styles. It's like when someone says they hate Rap music but then go "Oh wait, except for <insert some random rapper, usually MC Chris>"

I love the MegaTen franchise, but I don't like most Final Fantasy games. On that same coin, the Final Fantasy games that I have liked, I've LOVED.

In terms of WRPGs I'm not a big fan of the Elder Scrolls games, but I enjoy Fable. I'm not a big fan of Mass Effect but I enjoyed Fallout 3

Even if I were to take my favorite JRPG and compare it to my favorite WRPG, I wouldn't get anywhere because they'd be two completely different games in their gameplay, characters, story delivery. It'd be like trying to compare a sandwich to a pretzel. Sure both are bread (in this case bread means they're both games) but they're prepared so differently for their audience.

My point was that whether you say "Western RPGs are better than Japanese RPGs" or vice versa. Guess what, you're wrong. Because both are incredibly widespread genres with a lot of stuff to choose from, and I'm willing to bet almost everybody here can name at least one from each that they've liked.

Hell, even Yahtzee said once upon a time he enjoyed Final Fantasy.