Just because she isn?t saying no doesn?t mean she is saying yes

[axlryder]

Seriously, though, while someone who has consented reluctantly is not akin to someone who has been raped, the situation is creepy enough that it should be a massive warning flag. We should not be seeking justifications for begging or pleading or other forms of emotional manipulation in sex. We should not think it is acceptable to pressure someone to have sex against their will.

No, it is not rape. But it is still vile. And you should not be disgusted at the comparison. You should consider these behaviors reprehensible. No one should ever be subjected to such emotional bombardment that they feel they should get in that creepy stranger's car against their wishes and their better judgement. People should know that it's not okay to badger someone into going to the park when the other person would rather just stay at home because it's cold and damp outside and the park is dingy and full of litter and diseased hobos.

And as an aside, ranting about the proliferation of a certain type of thread on any forum ever is farting into the wind. And considering the gravity of the subject matter in these particular threads, that you take the time to do so even though the futility is obvious kinda sends the wrong impression. Which is to say, I prefer the substantive debate to commentary on the choice of subject.

HEY! I'm a diseased hobo and I resent that remark!

As to the OT, while it's a very nice notion that people would give explicit verbal consent to every escalating action that you perform with them, it's simply not always practical in the real world. That said, it should not be very hard to figure out if your partner wants to have sex or not just from their body language and attitude. If you aren't really sure they're into it, then there's probably something wrong anyway (and I suggest at that point that assurance is made).

 

[Cecilthedarkknight_234]

oh for the love of god another rape thread?? Yes all guys are pigs who only want to rape and attack woman. All woman are innocent of false rape claims because changing your mind later on is okay and ruining some-one's life is as well and men can never be raped by woman because men are asking for it. /sarcasm

 

[TAdamson]

Why is the guy expected to look out for her interests when she won't even go as far for herself as saying no?

Have you ever had sex dude?

Have you ever had sex with someone and not asked if they were enjoying it?

If they don't answer then maybe that's a cue that you should stop.

Especially when the other person looks like they're not enjoying it, or looks unconscious, it seems like a sensible thing to ask...

 

[mronoc]

Unless you have some degree of sociopathy, I can't imagine it's that difficult to know when someone isn't comfortable with what's going on in cases of that nature. They should absolutely speak up, but I can see where certain factors like societal pressures and conflicted feelings towards the instigator could make it difficult, to say nothing of the shock and confusion that come with any stressful situation.

 

[Mr Cwtchy]

For God's sake another rape thread!? What else is there to say about it?

In fact, what else need be said other than, "It's bad. Don't do it."?

 

[TAdamson]

snip

Let me refine that for you.

If you're the one that is penetrating someone else and they do-not give you implicit permission then that is rape if they so think it.

It's a hard line but if you want to be free from the accusation of rape then get permission.

 

[Suicidejim]

But then again, maybe it does.

 

[TAdamson]

For God's sake another rape thread!? What else is there to say about it?

In fact, what else need be said other than, "It's bad. Don't do it."?

Apart from don't threaten people with it, it's not nice.

This seams to be the sticking point.


People seem to think that because there is some overlap between:

"I'm going to rape you"

"I'm going to rape your mother"

"I'm going to kill your mother"

"I'm going to kill you"


That all of those threats are equal. They aren't.

I can get exasperated and threaten to kill you.

Or I can have a desperate reason to kill you. You might be armed and dangerous.


There exists such a thing as justifiable homicide.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING A JUSTIFIABLE RAPE.

However much that you might insist that death is worse than rape, I challenge you to find a rape in history that was justified.

You would kill Hitler. Would you rape his wife?

 

[axlryder]

For God's sake another rape thread!? What else is there to say about it?

In fact, what else need be said other than, "It's bad. Don't do it."?

Apart from don't threaten people with it, it's not nice.

This seams to be the sticking point.


People seem to think that because there is some overlap between:

"I'm going to rape you"

"I'm going to rape your mother"

"I'm going to kill your mother"

"I'm going to kill you"


That all of those threats are equal.


There exists such a thing as justifiable homicide.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING A JUSTIFIABLE RAPE.

However much that you might insist that death is worse than rape, I challenge you to find a rape in history that was justified. You would kill Hitler. Would you rape his wife?

I'll tell you what I tell every other naysayer who says there's no such thing as justifiable rape: a villain has planted a nuclear bomb that is set to kill countless people, and the deactivation remote (a button that must be pressed several times over) has been inserted into a woman's vagina. The only one who can stop it is a pantsless, armless individual. He has managed to find the woman, but has only a minute to deactivate the bomb. He has but one option. The woman does not wish to be penetrated. What then, huh? Hear that? That's the sound of justification.

 

[Galletea]

Oh gawd, I just got told so hard. I'm actually crying. Why must you be so mean?

I hate grown ups! Hate them!

Don't hide under the bed. It's not safe. There's monsters, and...dust bunnies. And spiders.
For a thread that essentially has the message Don't fuck unconscious people it sure has gone on for longer than I would have expected.
The most important question is; will there be unicorns in the utopia without these discussions?

 

[viranimus]

Oh hells bells, Lets just make this simple already.


There is never any time ever that she wants to have sex, and if your a male and youve ever had sex your evil and your cruel for even wanting it.

Wait lets shorten it a little more.... All men are evil. Yip that'll do.

Might not be true, but from the sounds of it, it might as well be with all this decapitated chicken style over reaction.

 

[ZtH]

snip

Let me refine that for you.

If you're the one that is penetrating someone else and they do-not give you implicit permission then that is rape if they so think it.

It's a hard line but if you want to be free from the accusation of rape then get permission.

Now I'm going to disagree with you her on logical grounds. Earlier somebody cited Canadian law that states that in some cases even cooperative acts towards sex could be considered non consensual. With that in mind isn't the implied consent of inserting the penis not sufficient to disprove the rape of a man?

If you are going the route of affirmative verbal consent then it should be required for both parties our the implied consent of removing clothing etc. could be compared to insertion.

 

[Darkmantle]

How about

'Never have sex with someone without their explicit consent'

Pretty damn simple.

Because I'm not going to ask my girlfriend "hey, can you sign this consensual sex waiver, I just want to make sure we are on the same page" every time things start to get heavy.

which is not really the situation in the article, but your statement is far too broad.

 

[Psykoma]

How about

'Never have sex with someone without their explicit consent'

Pretty damn simple.

Because I'm not going to ask my girlfriend "hey, can you sign this consensual sex waiver, I just want to make sure we are on the same page" every time things start to get heavy.

which is not really the situation in the article, but your statement is far too broad.

Explicit consent doesn't by necessity mean written consent.

"Want to have sex?" (or any other sex euphamism you two use)
"Yeah"

You really think that's hard?
If so, do you just never actually talk to your girlfriend?

 

[Iron Criterion]

Why don't we just have contracts drawn up and brought to a court to have them signed pre-fornication. It's the only way to avoid this raising fear of retroactively being accused of rape. Sure it'll take weeks and suck all enjoyment out of the most natural of acts but this is the future damnit, and the one thing the future does well is drain the fun out of life.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

How about

'Never have sex with someone without their explicit consent'

Pretty damn simple.

Because I'm not going to ask my girlfriend "hey, can you sign this consensual sex waiver, I just want to make sure we are on the same page" every time things start to get heavy.

which is not really the situation in the article, but your statement is far too broad.

You're overthinking it. Seriously, it really isn't that hard to get this.

First off, what the thread implies is that its between 2 relative strangers/first timers.

It doesn't even have to be verbal when it comes to a partner (though it does still need to be consensual), if the girl is as eager to get your pants off as you are hers and is mad for your cock, consent is pretty much given.

But if she becomes a plank, while you ride her like you would a rubber doll, then thats probably not something you want to be doing. Oh, its also incredibly creepy.

Unless nailing a plank is something you both find particularly arousing. A quick, "ready?" would suffice, followed by "yeah" or "go for it" or "mhhmm" *nod* (if your into kinky shit) will mean all is gold.

IT isn't complicated. Stop complicating it.

Why don't we have contracts drawn up and sign them pre-fornication. It's the only way to avoid this raising fear of retroactively being accused of rape.

Or don't have sex with strangers? I mean, its not a necessity... and strangers are more likely to be assholes then someone you've spent time getting to know.

 

[TAdamson]

I'll tell you what I tell every other naysayer who says there's no such thing as justifiable rape: a villain has planted a nuclear bomb that is set to kill countless people, and the deactivation remote (a button that must be pressed several times over) has been inserted into a woman's vagina. The only one who can stop it is a pantsless, armless individual. He has managed to find the woman, but has only a minute to deactivate the bomb. He has but one option. The woman does not wish to be penetrated. What then, huh? Hear that? That's the sound of justification.

I wish I could write the yawning, sucking, vaginal noise that you deserve as your death due to your writing of that paragraph.

Onomatopoeia is sadly lacking in this case. Perhaps the readership should come up with something appropriate.

 

[Jerkules]

How is it hard to get consent? I've had one night stands, it's easy to confirm. Somewhere between tops coming off and pants coming off a quick "you wanna do this?" reaffirms it. Easy. Takes barely a second.

Real people never do this. Flat out.

Besides, the woman can always deny it later. So what good does this do?

"What good does it do to affirm a woman's consent before having sex with her? She can just deny it later!"

This is a serious question, being asked by a serious poster. Sweet Jesus.