"Just go watch Porn!" (Probably NFSW, duh)

[Mikeybb]

Different strokes for different folks. *snipped the rest*

This is the most appropriate comment for the discussion of porn types, tastes and borderline porn for multiple reasons.
Partly for the message it imparts, mainly because I like the pun.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I think your understanding of sex is severely askew if you think animated fanservice is "more authentic" than a couple of people fucking in front of a camera.

 

[Something Amyss]

Oh wow, I'd never seen the intro before. I've seen less in-your-face/"fan-service" hentai (and "normal" porn).

The exact reason I posed it. XD

Thinking about it, I have two major problems with the video: 1) The noises the girls make are really weird - I get they're channelling the anime thing but its a turn-off for me; and 2) BOOBS DON'T MOVE LIKE THAT! Its an insult to the sexy glory of human anatomy.

Video games frequently have that problem. Not to harp on Quiet too much, but her boobs are like autonomous creatures trying to escape her bra. But, I mean, this is designed to appeal to a certain demographic, so what do I know?

But move beyond the subjective for a moment and ask yourself: what's more real to you- a physical person you only see visually displayed in sex scenes, most of which have little or no development or story (yes, some porn does; the typical mass-consumed mainstream stuff does not), or a character whose actions you have some degree of control over, who has some story and experience you're familiar with?

First off, that's not moving beyond the subjective. You're asking for someone's subjective feelings on porn.

Second, to answer your question, the fact that I am literally commanding someone intended as an object to get me off is inherently less real to me. It's like asking why I don't think a blowup doll is more real than a woman.

Which begs the question of what the point was in a thread castigating people for being dismissive of a titty volleyball game. Are they wrong for disliking it?

I think a followup is in order in the question of how people who suggest porn have become anti-sex puritans. And, at this point, war is peace, hate is love, and black is white, leading to many deaths at zebra crossings.

Moreover, this is an inferred judgment call. People aren't necessarily judging you by suggesting you watch porn. In fact, it might be a response to the rather histrionic reactions we've seen over a single titty game not being localised into our market. Strange as it seems, most people might not understand why this is a huge deal worthy of dozens of threads and outcry.

...none of this is really aimed at you, your discourse just made me think aboot it. The people indignant at being judged are participating in and have participated in a lot of judgement prior.

Anyway, the message of this thread comes off as insincere, with this idea of "how dare you judge me like I judge other people," which brings up a broader question: why is it okay when "I" do it, but not when it's done to "me?"

Well there's shitloads of amateur stuff out there (which is what I generally go for).

Just to point out, a lot of amateur porn is about as authentic: people staging for the camera.

I'm not saying don't play fanservice games. If that floats your boat then by all means have at it. But your description of internet porn sounds like the state it was in about 10 years ago. Things have changed since then.

I think this is more the end result of making excuses. They don't want to look at "porn," which is fine. There seems to be an unwillingness to cop to the fact that this is how they get off, though.

 

[Something Amyss]

Well, I'd consider calling someone a "prude" in response to accusations of hating half the human species over something so phenomenally inconsequential as digital boobies not only a remarkably tame retort but a very understandable assumption as well, but again, maybe that's just me.

I missed these accusations. Can you point them out?

And while I wait...if they're so inconsequential, why are people so upset they might not have access to them? If you think they're inconsequential, why are five of the posts on your first page alone in topics related to the subject?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Well, I'd consider calling someone a "prude" in response to accusations of hating half the human species over something so phenomenally inconsequential as digital boobies not only a remarkably tame retort but a very understandable assumption as well, but again, maybe that's just me.

Uh. OP made the statement that people said "go watch porn", and were dismissive of the game. I have no idea what this is you're talking about. I imagine you're up on some kind of anti-feminism hobby horse again, because we're talking about a titty game so it's time to go back to war, but I'm not really sure it's applicable to this thread. Let's see. Starting on page one.

No mentions, no mentions, ini-kun complaining about misandry, no mention, no mention, StausNil literally comparing everyone criticizing the game to Hitler, no mention, no mention, no mention, no mention, no mention, OP posting again after two pages of replies and STILL not saying anything about "misogyny", no mention, Amir Kondori starts the "super prudish/sex is evil" bandwagon going, despite literally no one in the thread demonstrating prudishness, no mention, Redd the Sock hopping on the "prudish/sex is evil" bandwagon, no mention, no mention, no mention annnd no mention through the rest of the thread.

A charge of "misogyny" or "women hating" has been invoked ZERO times in this discussion. Man hating has been invoked once. Literally every incident of hysterical name calling or sweeping accusation is labelled above. Feel free to review the thread yourself to confirm. I included Paragon Fury in there not because he made accusations (other than the thread, which is an implicit accusation that people who dislike the game need to have their tastes challenged, but I think we can agree that this is on a different level than "people who dislike it are Hitler") but to confirm just how off-topic some of this commentary has gotten.

The vast majority of conversation has revolved around whether or not the game constitutes porn. Most (almost all) of the people arguing it is have also come out as pro-porn, or at least completely accepting of it. I didn't catch one post blasting pornography conceptually, and yet here we have people screeching about "sex negativity" and "prudes" and you beating the "they called him a misogynist" drum. How is that remotely on topic?

I mean, if you're actually opposed to shit like histrionic cries suggesting someone "hates half the human species", why are you not penning strident replies to ini-kun, who invoked misandry? Or StatusNil, who suggested a wide demographic of people were "Hitler"? Is that an improvement on suggesting a demographic of people is "Isis"? Or do you agree with them, and are actually perfectly fine with such extremity, as long as it's aimed at people you view as political opponents?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Pinups are pornography, period. Playboy, Hustler, etc, its porn.

Just so we're all working with the same definition:

Full Definition of PORNOGRAPHY

1 the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement
2 material (as books or a photograph) that depicts erotic behavior and is intended to cause sexual excitement
3 the depiction of acts in a sensational manner so as to arouse a quick intense emotional reaction

There's some very tiresome goal post shuffling in terms of what should or shouldn't be labelled "pornography", apparently being undertaken with the instinctive understanding that "porn is bad, and if we relabel it something else, it will be good". There is nothing inherently bad about "porn", and bending spoons mentally so you can call your porn "erotica" or "ecchi" or "gentle titillation" doesn't make it not porn. It just A) puts it at the genteel end of the pornography spectrum, and B) makes you super insecure about your tastes.

Not you specifically, Mars, just using your post as a jumping off point. Don't mind me!

 

[I can't enter my old name]

OP I get you.

The difference between ecchi and internet pornography, is that the latter's purpose is masturbatory aid. It is simply a means for sexual release by causing high levels of arousal to do so. Most porn on the internet is just random people having sex for masturbation, and this is sometimes what people aren't looking for.

Ecchi on the other hand is not for releasing sexual tension (unless you were really desperate). Its purpose is to titillate the viewer to lead to arousal, but not necessarily enough motivation to do you know what. This is something akin to having a beautiful woman on the beach flirting with you. There is a little arm touching, a few quick glances, but nothing that escalates into sexual activity. Then there is a social aspect to it. As humans, we are attracted to people with similar personalities and behaviors. A lot of ecchi manga, anime, and games are long enough to have character development. Watching a 13 episode ecchi series about something like monster girls makes us know the characters intimately, which makes it more likely for viewers to crush on one of them or have shipping wars.

In this case, this is fulfilling more than just sexual gratification. It is fulfilling the romantic love, or the monogamous pair-bonding side. Fanservice in these things is not only for the viewer's titillation, but also invokes feelings of shyness or bashfulness, which is inherent in early relationships. It increases intimacy. It is not wank material. Something like DOA Xtreme Beach Volleyball (which I have not played) is like a dating sim. That's the difference between this and internet porn.

It's not about different strokes for different people in porn or weird 2D/3D girl fetishes, but what people are seeking from it.

 

[JamesStone]

I'm not sure I understand the premise. You're saying that internet porn doesn't turn you on as much as video game porn? If that's the case, then just go download some porn mods for Skyrim or something.

Actually, yeah, that's a point. Why is it that nude mods are so popular when there's porn everywhere?

Mind you, I like mods, even pointless ones that may or may not work very well. Even if it's a skin that looks worse than the original, then it's a choice of something different.

That's actually the exact counter of the point. Speaking as someone who wants their "realistic immersive" games to be as expansive as possible (which is to say I like to get immersed in a world and if the characters love each other they should probably fuck once in a while), I speak from experience when I say the nude mods are nothing but the gateway to porn. The people who do animations aren't usually very good with modeling in the mod community and vice-versa, and the nude mods are one of the first things to come out (as a sort of "tease" for times to come), so you need to install a nude mod if you actually want the "sex" mod you installed to have any point whatsoever.


As for the OP, I agree with the "just watch porn" crowd, and DOAX's marketing makes my entire argument.

 

[Dazzle Novak]

Am I crossing a line by pointing out the OP has made various threads questioning his own tastes in media (i.e. being overly infatuated with ecchi to the detriment of real potential relationships) and attitudes toward women while describing his current romantic prospects as involuntary-celibacy at best, if not outright perma-virgin territory?

I feel like most of us are intuiting the sort of frustrations one in such a position might have, but no one's explicitly stating it. So I will:

If you're using digital/ cartoon women to supplement your lack of a love life, arguably because fake women don't have all those pesky demands and preferences but instead frolick on the beach in naive, cooing obliviousness like mental-children, you may not have an ideal attitude toward women or sex. You may, dare I say, be the sex-negative one if you're repulsed by one of the key components of heterosexual intercourse: living, breathing women.

 

[Dazzle Novak]

I feel like I was being pretty clear that finding real human women, "depressing and frustrating" wasn't a positive thing, but yeah what you said. I think we can extend sympathy and acceptance to people who struggle to relate to the human objects of their affection, but we don't have to pretend that it's healthy either. It's the difference between accepting delusional people, and accepting their delusions.

Sorry, I didn't see your post. I wasn't trying to insinuate I was the only person "keeping it 100"; just noting that a lot of our opinions are being painted by accurate assumptions about the OP that the people shrieking "prude" don't seem to be picking up on.

 

[I can't enter my old name]

Its not that I don't find real women attractive - its just much less depressing and frustrating when its 2D women.

I think that's exactly the kind of complex everyone was picking up on, and reacting to. Putting aside the rest of what you said, you find real live women depressing and frustrating? I'm sorry, really, but that's a problem and not a style or preference.

I love how some people react to others liking ecchi "How dare you!? Get back to your closet!".

Its more that people are purporting that ecchi isn't pornographic in nature. Basically the reasoning appears to be "its there to give you an erection but not to whack off to", which is the weirdest, most meaningless distinction I've heard between the two that isn't even true. Its porn. Its fine, I use porn all the time and have even participated in the creation of it, but pretending its something that it isn't is just plain dishonesty. Its like somebody trying to justify their like of Pacific Rim by saying its writing rivals Shakespeare, that they buy Madden or FIFA every year because its gameplay is unparalleled, that Pokemon Red/Blue being somebody's favourite games in the entire series. No, the truth is as follows: chicks dig giant robots, people like playing as their favourite team and people are nostalgic over it. There's nothing wrong with any of that but just be honest. Pacific Rim isn't ingenious writing, FIFA isn't the best football game on the market and there are much more technically refined Pokemon games on the market than Red/Blue, which had a plethora of issues. Its fine to like the stuff but just be honest. Thats what a lot of folks are calling out, the unwillingness to just admit that something is porn when it is. Its special pleading to try and get it recognized as something else as if like pornography is illegitimate in the first place. You don't need to justify porn, at least not to anybody here. Its fine, almost all of us use it but don't don't pretend like you're above it all.

I'm here to defend OP's tastes. Some people think anime girls are weird, and regular porn is fine. Neither are weird, both are fine.

I don't know why people are arguing about the definition of pornography, but pornography used by the OP is a colloquial one. When someone says "I watch porn", we assume he or she visits porn websites. "Ecchi" on the other hand is used by anime peoples to differentiate between "lots of fanservice maybe with some nudity" and "ero/AV/hentai". The actual definition of pornography is not very helpful in this case, because they are both pornography.

 

[IceForce]

The responses are attacking him.

Nah, not really. Only someone with remarkably thin skin would deem these responses as personal attacks.

OP literally describes (IRL) porn as "incredibly fake, and most of the time people aren't actually enjoying themselves". If the OP scoured the internet for porn and came to the above conclusion, then the OP is both objectively wrong and also he didn't look very hard.

Pointing this out is not a personal attack on him.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

The responses are attacking him.

Nah, not really. Only someone with remarkably thin skin would deem these responses as personal attacks.

OP literally describes (IRL) porn as "incredibly fake, and most of the time people aren't actually enjoying themselves". If the OP scoured the internet for porn and came to the above conclusion, then the OP is both objectively wrong and also he didn't look very hard.

Pointing this out is not a personal attack on him.

Is it? That's the view he gets from looking at porn and you're saying he's wrong about his tastes. It is a ton of posts just saying the OP's opinion is wrong, he doesn't know what he's talking about, he has emotional problems, etc. Very few people are actually addressing his argument (which is "why is he told to "just go watch porn" when this is what he wants" in case anyone forgot).

 

[Something Amyss]

Nah, not really. Only someone with remarkably thin skin would deem these responses as personal attacks.

OP literally describes (IRL) porn as "incredibly fake, and most of the time people aren't actually enjoying themselves". If the OP scoured the internet for porn and came to the above conclusion, then the OP is both objectively wrong and also he didn't look very hard.

Pointing this out is not a personal attack on him.

Criticising someone's taste shouldn't be seen as a personal attack anyway, unless "you have poor taste" is followed by something like "therefore, you're stupid."

Hell, ignoring Guppy's point that nobody seems to care that folks are actually being compared to Hitler and the like, we still have an issue that the people who seem to be most interested in considering this an attack frequently criticise and judge other people's taste in media. Especially as it related to video games. If this really is something that they consider an attack, then maybe they shouldn't do it either.

This sudden opposition to judgment and derision sends the message of "do as I say, not as I do."

 

[IceForce]

Very few people are actually addressing his argument (which is "why is he told to "just go watch porn" when this is what he wants" in case anyone forgot).

Probably because that's not actually an 'argument', per se. It's just a question.

The arguments that the OP *did* attempt to put across were his reasons for liking what he likes. I view them as rather poor reasons, but OP can still like what he likes and it doesn't bother me. (As I said earlier in this thread: Each to their own.)

we still have an issue that the people who seem to be most interested in considering this an attack frequently criticise and judge other people's taste in media. Especially as it related to video games. If this really is something that they consider an attack, then maybe they shouldn't do it either.

Yeah... it's bizarre for sure.

Made even more bizarre by the way that it's usually the "SJWs" who are normally the ones who are accused of constantly finding offense in other people's words and having 'thin skins' and all that jazz.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Very few people are actually addressing his argument (which is "why is he told to "just go watch porn" when this is what he wants" in case anyone forgot).

Probably because that's not actually an 'argument', per se. It's just a question.

In any case, that's why he made the thread.

The arguments that the OP *did* attempt to put across were his reasons for liking what he likes. I view them as rather poor reasons, but OP can still like what he likes and it doesn't bother me. (As I said earlier in this thread: Each to their own.)

That's all well and good, now what about the people saying he has a complex because they don't like his tastes?