Just how bad was the New 52 DC?

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Now this where my opinions are completely different because unlike movies I firmly think Comic Books themsleves has ended up writing some of the absolute worse things in existance:

Superman: At Earth's End (Santa Beared Superman with a completely ridiculous looking gun)
Justice League: Act of God (Catholic Wonder Woman)
Dark Knight Strikes Again (The sex scene between Supes and Wonder Woman)
Spiderman One More Day (Everything)
etc.

So I am hearing mixed things about the whole New 52 era. Personally I like the New 52 from the first Justice League issue (The Origin story arc) but I never seen the rest of it. So really is it all completely bad from beginning to end because that is a bit too harsh I am certain there had to be improvements as the the line went on?

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

They paired Wonder Woman with Superman instead of Batman. That's Horus levels of Heresy there! Its a disgrace, and this video perfectly reflects my opinions of it.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

They paired Wonder Woman with Superman instead of Batman. That's Horus levels of Heresy there! Its a disgrace, and this video perfectly reflects my opinions of it.

As a Supes/WW shipper 1+ to New 52 so far.

I need something badder than that man.

 

[Saelune]

I cant give specifics, cause I aint got any. Just a general dislike of DC's constant rebooting. Marvel doesnt do it much...but did recently, and I dont like that either. Yeah there is alot of silly or shitty plots and all that, but I like knowing that what I know is canon and consistent. My interest in DC has been mostly out of proximity to Marvel, and "nerd culture" but what I do know of DC, I can never be too sure of.

Really I just wish both would let time pass, and consequences matter. Id be fine with Peter being a senior citizen. And Batman Beyond has shown me that old Batman is pretty neat.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Eh, I lost interest in the New52 fairly early on, so I can't really say.

However, it could have been handled a lot better. For example, they didn't finish all of the ongoing stories from the old lot before rebooting them...their was a big build up in Zatanna about a recurring enemy coming back and her love interest's secret past, and then they dropped all of that, and she's rebooted into being a new character in someone else's story.

In the first issue of Catwoman, she walks around not wearing much and has sex with Batman. This was defended by many fans with "she's a villain so she's a slut", which, amongst other things, is missing the point. It's not supposed to be a soft-porn comic, is it, she's supposed to fight people and steal things...she ended up doing this in later issues.

Likewise, while Starfire was always sexual, they made her sexual and nothing else, to the extent that she can't remember anyone she has sex with, but that there are lots of people.

Getting rid of Oracle and making her just another Batgirl again.

Also, sacking established writers and only hiring men to replace them, because comics are only a guy thing.

This really hurt sales to begin with, IIRC, but I think they got their act together again and improved, but to what extent I don't know.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

What Thaluikhain said.

Personal point of no return? The first two arcs in Justice League Dark after their origin story.

See, the first arc, the terminus of the entire story, the climax... wasn't a JLD comic. It was printed in I, Vampire for some unholy reason.
So, okay, you get one.

Then we had the lovely story where Tim Hunter makes his DC proper reappearance, and with Dark's help, they stop the bad guy from obtaining the Books of Magic, wellspring of magical power in the DC universe. Or, that's what had been established canon, anyway. Turns out, the Books of Magic were actually an interdimensional teleportation device keyed into Tim Hunter's bloodline, so that he could teleport back to an alien world and lead a destined rebellion against the techno-magic overlords of that world.

 

[Kolby Jack]

They paired Wonder Woman with Superman instead of Batman. That's Horus levels of Heresy there! Its a disgrace, and this video perfectly reflects my opinions of it.

As a Supes/WW shipper 1+ to New 52 so far.

I need something badder than that man.

I hate you.

My biggest issue with it was the erasure of Wally West. They had a character NAMED Wally West (eventually), but he had literally nothing in common with the original Wally West. They've since undone it (thank god) but when a company either deletes or makes unrecognizable your favorite superhero, it really puts a bee in your bonnet.

My second biggest issue was the horrible darkness of it all. I mean, comics today aren't the hokey camp they were in the Silver Age, but there just wasn't any FUN in the new 52. Everything sucked for everyone at all times, and any small gains were usually undone by some new horrific tragedy. It just felt like the shitty 90's all over again.

And this ties in to the above point, but they also made Superman lose some of his powers, don a black shirt and jeans, have a bad attitude, and gave him a buzz cut. Basically they made him Superboy in everything but name. It was SO stupid and poorly received that even after they FINALLY gave Supes his powers back and he actually had a smidgen of happiness, eventually they decided his character was too damaged so they killed him. So far, the new 52 Superman remains dead. IMO it's for the best. The original Superman is much more interesting, and obviously he's much truer to the character... because he IS the character.

 

[Asita]

This is also the period where the Joker had his face flayed off and reattached for the lulz and claimed that Harley Quinn was just the latest of many women to fall into that song and dance with him before he grew bored of them. Now, I'm fine with darkness and horrific implications, but diminishing returns are a thing and by that point I can't help but think that trying to make a longstanding abusive relationship with a psychotic mass murderer even worse ends up detracting from the work rather than adding to it. To me, at the very least, it was shock value for the sake of shock value.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

They paired Wonder Woman with Superman instead of Batman. That's Horus levels of Heresy there! Its a disgrace, and this video perfectly reflects my opinions of it.

As a Supes/WW shipper 1+ to New 52 so far.

I need something badder than that man.

.

My second biggest issue was the horrible darkness of it all. I mean, comics today aren't the hokey camp they were in the Silver Age, but there just wasn't any FUN in the new 52. Everything sucked for everyone at all times, and any small gains were usually undone by some new horrific tragedy. It just felt like the shitty 90's all over again.

I just need to comprehend how much everything sucked for the heroes. Like did the heroes often get the receiving end of trouble or something? And yeah I remember that whole image of Superman with a beard and shortened hair and dressed in casual cloths and I gotta admit I wanna see it, just for the sheer curiosity of how Superman acts like this.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I just need to comprehend how much everything sucked for the heroes. Like did the heroes often get the receiving end of trouble or something? And yeah I remember that whole image of Superman with a beard and shortened hair and dressed in casual cloths and I gotta admit I wanna see it, just for the sheer curiosity of how Superman acts like this.

They turned Static Shock into a boiler-plate Angry Black Man and then cut off his arm.

And when I say "they", I mean the Editor and the Artist. They'd basically cut the Author out of the creation process.

 

[Captain Marvelous_v1legacy]

Wally West
The race change isn't my biggest issue with Wally's New 52 change. I do have a big problem with race bending characters, because it feels extremely lazy, but the bigger problem is: New 52 Wally West had nothing in common with the old Wally. Why did they have to change his character so much? In essence, all they did was create a new character and give him Wally's name. Well, Pre-52 Wally West is back now. So that's one thing Rebirth has fixed.

Amanda Waller
My problem with Waller lies strictly with her appearance. As far as body diversity goes, DC and Marvel have slim to none. One of DC's uniquely sized characters was Amanda Waller. She wasn't what the conventional person would describe as beautiful and that's only because she was on the heavier side of the spectrum. I still loved her all the same. Then the New 52 happened and Waller lost something that made her unique. The new 52 made her look like just about every other woman in comics. She became a model. This is something else Rebirth fixed. She still isn't pre-52, but she's certainly not a model anymore.

Lobo

Spoiler: God dammit, DC!

God dammit, DC! Why did this:

Become this?:

What the fuck!?

A reboot that's not a reboot
For all intents and purposes the New 52 was supposed to be a reboot. But it wasn't really and that's pretty damn ridiculous. Batman is on his 4th robin. Blackest Night is canon. There are still 4 Green Lanterns from earth (6 Now). If you're going to reboot then do it! And then there's stuff like Batman and Superman meeting for the first time twice. Once in Justice League and the other in Batman/Superman.

Hopelessness
Describes the New52 in a nutshell. All dark and dreary with no hope to be found anywhere. This is what happens when you let Batman be the face of DC. Everyone gets Batman Syndrome. There aren't enough gargoyles dammit!

There's certainly more, but this is all I got right now.
[hr]
The New 52 had some good reads though. I enjoyed Swamp Thing, Animal Man, Wonder Woman (Up until the terrible Finch couple took over.), Batman, and Grayson.

 

[Thaluikhain]

This is also the period where the Joker had his face flayed off and reattached for the lulz and claimed that Harley Quinn was just the latest of many women to fall into that song and dance with him before he grew bored of them. Now, I'm fine with darkness and horrific implications, but diminishing returns are a thing and by that point I can't help but think that trying to make a longstanding abusive relationship with a psychotic mass murderer even worse ends up detracting from the work rather than adding to it. To me, at the very least, it was shock value for the sake of shock value.

Oh yeah, that. Not to mention, she's called Harley Quinn because he original name was Harleen Quinzel. Did all the other Harley Quinns happen to have names that were very similar?

Oh, and yeah, turning the Wall into the Rail, like Captain Marvelous said. Though, they had her mum or grandma, who looked a lot like the old Waller (size wise), so is the new one supposed to be her daughter or something?

 

[Kolby Jack]

I just need to comprehend how much everything sucked for the heroes. Like did the heroes often get the receiving end of trouble or something? And yeah I remember that whole image of Superman with a beard and shortened hair and dressed in casual cloths and I gotta admit I wanna see it, just for the sheer curiosity of how Superman acts like this.

Aside from huge, grandiose changes, things like long-standing relationships were erased. Black Canary and Green Arrow never met, for instance, and though Aquaman and Mera were in a relationship, they were no longer married. Superman was back to secretly pining for Lois Lane, who had zero interest in him. Barry Allen and Iris were friend-zoned (still are), obviously Wally West and Linda Park couldn't be a thing, Tim Drake and Stephanie Brown had no romantic history (fixed)... Basically no relationship was left in tact, and many were undone altogether. I know some people chagrin superhero romance subplots but they go a long way in humanizing the character (if done well).

Other things too. They started out not having any of the original Teen Titans have THAT in their history (although there were some inconsistencies there and they sort of fixed it by involving magical memory erasing... whatever, I'm just glad they did something about it). The new Teen Titans were all extremely angsty, save one very exhuberant gay guy (not sure what happened to him). Tim Drake suddenly spurned his relationship with Batman by having "never been a Robin" (supposedly he was Batman's partner, but was always "Red Robin," his solo alias). And Tim said his closest brother in the Wayne family was JASON TODD, who previously tried to kill all of the other bat-family members. Damian Wayne and Batman's relationship was largely left untouched, but then they killed Damian off (and brought him back later).

Clark Kent's parents were dead since the beginning of the new 52, I guess so he could... angst about it like Batman? Artemis, who was a much beloved character in the Young Justice show, appeared and died within the same issue of Teen Titans. Blue Beetle, who previously has his family and friends know his secret identity, now has much less control over the scarab and is forced not to reveal it, and also has to run away from home. Not to mention the two previous Blue Beetles never existed in the new 52 universe (fixed). Supergirl was much angrier, so much so that she briefly became a Red Lantern. Superboy was actually an okay character who heroically sacrificed himself to save Superman and Supergirl, but was then replaced by an evil lookalike from the future without anyone noticing (not sure how that played out but there doesn't seem to be a Superboy in Rebirth because Superman's son Jon is going to be taking up that mantle.). Beast Boy became red (fixed), Solstice became black and purple. Starfire, instead of dressing sexually because she was a free spirit, now just does it because she doesn't care and has sex with people out of boredom.

All that shit and more. And I know I used a lot of present tense, but that's because I don't know the new status of those characters yet. I'm living on a bit more of a budget than I was back when the new 52 started so I'm trying to limit my subscriptions, even though I really want to subscribe to just about every book DC has right now. That, and some rebirth-era comics haven't started printing yet, like Teen Titans and Super Sons.

 

[Captain Marvelous_v1legacy]

The new Teen Titans were all extremely angsty, save one very exhuberant gay guy (not sure what happened to him).

Ah, Bunker. My favorite of the New 52 Titans. He's basically gone as of Rebirth, but, while we're on the subject of gay heroes, apparently Aqualad aka Kaldur-ahm aka Jackson Hyde, is gay now. Can't say I mind, since he didn't have much in terms of relationships.

Superboy was actually an okay character who heroically sacrificed himself to save Superman and Supergirl, but was then replaced by an evil lookalike from the future without anyone noticing (not sure how that played out but there doesn't seem to be a Superboy in Rebirth because Superman's son Jon is going to be taking up that mantle.).

Superboy defeated his evil doppelganger... somehow. I don't quite remember how, but it did involve a multiverse worth of Superboys. And yeah, he's also missing as of Rebirth.

Starfire, instead of dressing sexually because she was a free spirit, now just does it because she doesn't care and has sex with people out of boredom.

Star had a 12 issue series that returned her to her free spirited nature. She's much more like her Teen Titans cartoon version. As far as I can tell she's also sexually free, but I only read the first issue so I can't really comment.

 

[Redd the Sock]

On its own, I don't think much of the new 52 was toxic (at least compared to some of those shittier Elseworlds), but in the big picture, it hit the basic problems fans have with reboots. Yeah yeah, ***** about whiny nerd culture entitlement all you want, and I won't say you're wrong, but that shouldn't be used to distract from other problems with reboots.

1) the One more day issue: basically using a reboot to write anything for any reason and just say "because reasons" to make it work. Want Barbara as Batgirl again? Why write a story about her gaining the use of her legs again when you can just BS about some miracle that happened out of book. Want Supergirl as some pushy Kryptonian outright resentful toward earth, well, that's who she is now and forget the old versions. Shipping Batwoman and Maggie Sawyer? Montoya's been killed sometime, oh and we have a new Question again. Don't get me started on the Gen 13 characters. Might be why the only thing I read for long was Green Lantern, and for a couple of years, that just went on like nothing happened, but even that fell to the other problem.

The Ultimate Marvel problem: Ultimate Marvel started with a lot of promise for new stories. It became a line dependent on revamping established characters to produce much of anything. The new 52, like many reboots and alternate versions like TV shows, stood less on its own than going here's the Justice League's first fight with Darkseid...again. Here's the Crime Syndicate's first appearance...again. Here\s the new origin of the New Gods, the new first fight bewteen Wonder Woman and Cheetah, and the new first time Luthor created Bizarro, and and a new origin for Captain Marvel / Shazam, and a new Black Adam for him to fight...again.

So basically, continuity got dropped in favor of something that let writers take easy shortcuts to tell lazy stories. There have been good things, but there's been a lot more style over substance, or books with neither. DC was pumping out so much and a lot was canned due to poor quality brought on by stretching talent into putting out more books than was reasonable and about characters no one was interested in. Once some of the spectacle wore off, or was amped up to the point of ridiculousness in Darkseid war, we just started seeing it for what it was: DC running out of ideas and trying to see if a blank slate could hide that fact.

 

[King Billi]

No it was never 'that' bad.

They had some good stories and they had some bad ones, just like comics always have.

They did have a lot of separate ongoing series in the beginning that didn't last very long which may account for a higher ratio of bad to good.

They may have erased some fan favourite characters, however they also cleaned out a lot of unnesessary clutter and rubbish.
A lot of people may be annoyed at losing Wally West(who is back now by the way) but there are probably a hundred other characters gone which no body misses.

Having started following DC comics regularly with the New 52 whilst simultaneously working my way backwards through the pre 52 I see absolutely no difference in the overall tone or "darkness" of the stories before or after. The New 52 which I've read is no where near as dark and dreary as I hear everyone make it out to be.

All in all I like most of what I've read.

 

[Queen Michael]

In my opinion, many individual stories were good, but the world as a whole was not an improvement. For instance, Barbara Gordon as Batgirl was fun to read about, but as Oracle she added more to the DC universe.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

Teen Titans. The worst shit in all of the New 52. I don't know how the same writer did Red Hood and the Outlaws, which I really enjoyed. Tim Drake, my favorite Robin, is now a cocky little asshole. Kid Flash was not only not Wally West, but was not Bart Allen. Fuuuucccckkkkk that shit. And Cassandra Sandsmark is now a thieving ***** who has mommy problems. I read the Teen Titans when I was actually a teen, and I really resonated with a lot of the characters. In this incarnation, all of them are impossibly sexy, annoyingly "modern", and pathetically shallow.

Wonder Woman and Flash went from being the best starting New 52 series to being the worst. Everything became worse, the writing, the art. And they both fucked up Donna Troy and Wally West. Suck a dick, writers, whoever you are.

Batman, Green Lantern, and some Superman comics were okay to good to great. Everything else was mediocre to garbage, with the occasional revelation like Swamp Thing or Omega Men.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

It wasn't as terrible as some people make it out to be, but it had some pretty major flaws.

Spoiler: Off the top of my head:

- The "hotter and sexier" direction, which turned Amanda Waller (a black, female Winston Churchill) into Halle Berry.

- The push for the main seven to all be younger with five years of superheroing under their belts, which varied from silly (why is everyone deferring to Superman's seniority if he's only been doing it five years?) to horrific (Batman going through four Robins and a Batgirl in just five years.)

- The vague, non-specific way in which previous continuity was retained.

- The few instances of inexplicable, borderline-sexist fanservice that just felt gratuitous [http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-u8y7kpmsqAI/ToovBc0df_I/AAAAAAAAAcY/OPUYmMHfJr4/s1600/StarfireCheesecake.jpg].

- Martian Manhunter being shunted off the Justice League and into a weird alternate "Dark" title. I've always been a fan of M&M because of the cartoon, so seeing him getting boxed away like that was annoying.

- Merging the Wildstorm universe into the main DC universe. On the one hand, it allows them to use the few interesting characters from Wildstorm without maintaining the larger setting. On the other hand, Midnighter is now a Batman pastiche in a world where Batman is a real thing, making him look like even more of an edgelord than he already was.

- The editorially-enforced screwing around of previous canon relationships. I try to avoid shipping, but Superman/Wonder Woman has never appealed to me, and the way they dealt with Lois made her into...kind of a *****, to be honest. It was interesting seeing Wonder Woman and Steve Trevor working together as exes, but the way it played out just made me feel really bad about Steve. Never mind that the Wonder Woman/Superman relationship had the most bland, forced writing imaginable.

- Lobo. Everything they did with Lobo just...completely missed the character's appeal. It was as far from the mark as At Earth's End Superman.

All that said, it had some gems in there as well as a lot of good stuff. Snyder's various runs on Batman were really good - the Court of Owls were the first interesting new Batman villains since Hush, even if I didn't take to its re-interpretation of Owlman. But Earth-2 Owlman shows up in Justice League anyway, so that fixed that. Azzarello's run on Wonder Woman was really good, but only Azzarello's run - the title went to crap after he moved on. Animal Man, Swamp Thing, and Catwoman were all good.

More broadly, they did some clever stuff with the canon. Darkseid was subtly reinterpreted in a very interesting way - he is now the only inhabitant of the universe who remembers what it was like before it was all ret-conned, making him a sort of metatextual villain who is semi-aware of how things have been changed. The Crime Syndicate, who I'm major fans of ever since Earth-2, got reintroduced in Forever Evil, which also saw Luthor working alongside the Justice League temporarily. Snyder also reinterpreted Batman as more introspective and philosophical, which I liked.

So, no. It wasn't all bad. It wasn't bad at all, really, outside of a few real stinkers.