Just trying to save the world

[Aramax]

If you have a problem with our society then by all means talk about it, write to your elected officials about it, try living by it. Just don't expect everyone to agree with you and don't make the assumption that your ideas will solve all of the world's problems. Too many people believe that they can fix the world by controlling those around them. I'm happy they don't make it into power because they always make things worse.

I dont have a problem with society but I have multiple problems with how this society is being handled by incompetent fools who think they can solve problems with money alone.

I'm not trying to control others i'm just trying to discuss about a solution to our common threats before it's too late. I thought about writing to my elected official but such documents would require some sort of support from the population so this is why i'm posting about it.

 

[Brotherofwill]

What's up with all the flaming?

He just had an idea, if you don't like it then just argue against it but no personal attacks.
What's wrong with the people on here?

I think the idea is pretty unreasonable, but anyway, I can understand why someone would wish for it.

 

[beddo]

If you have a problem with our society then by all means talk about it, write to your elected officials about it, try living by it. Just don't expect everyone to agree with you and don't make the assumption that your ideas will solve all of the world's problems. Too many people believe that they can fix the world by controlling those around them. I'm happy they don't make it into power because they always make things worse.

I dont have a problem with society but I have multiple problems with how this society is being handled by incompetent fools who think they can solve problems with money alone.

I'm not trying to control others i'm just trying to discuss about a solution to our common threats before it's too late. I thought about writing to my elected official but such documents would require some sort of support from the population so this is why i'm posting about it.

I'm just giving your ideas a hard time, it's not meant to be personal. I agree, the world is a shit place run by corrupt morons. It's kind of satisfying to see it collapse in their face.

What's even funnier is that their demand for power heavily influences their response to economic development and causes them to make even worse and irrational economic decisions.

 

[Naeo]

With no money, too, people get greedy and take what the want, not what they need. Human nature may not be inherent but it damn well won't change to "for the good of all" in anything less than many more generations than have existed in the past, oh, ever.

You should really learn about the native americans. It's embarassing for everyone when you say things like that.

I seem to recall them having wars and trading, things that you've said shouldn't exist.

This.

And, as things stand with organizations of people beyond tribes, things would not go the way of "Happy-smiley-no-more-problems ever" instantly, if ever. If it would, it would take a long, long time. At the least, several generations.

The thing about the Native Americans was they had no organization in the way you seem to imply it would exist. Instead of being sedentary peoples, they were in noteworthy portions nomadic. And most noteworthy, they didn't have the technology that would have to exist in your scenario. Natives had no electricity and as I recall no metal technology or very little. The ones in present-day United States lived off the land for the most part, moving when needed and respecting the earth. In your scenario we'd all still be sedentary, and have technologies that allow us to exploit the environment to no end.

Which brings up something I did not initially address: to create the goods for people to live comfortably, there would have to be consumption of natural resources. There would have to be destruction of the environment for people to live places. Maybe we'd not be emitting as much greenhouse gasses as before, but that would require the switch over to almost entirely zero-waste energy production.

And lastly: your idea is extremely similar to communalism, which in turn is similar to communism. No, it's not a huge stretch. Ideologically, they are different, yes, but both require every person to want to work for the good of the system- one greedy person could take everything as soon as its produced, eliminating the point of making the stuff because only one person gets it. If everyone wants the system to work and is willing to work to make it work, giving up some personal freedoms/liberties, then yes, your idea would work. But the problem is, like communism, not everyone wants to do that. People will still be greedy and will take advantage of the system for their own personal benefit.

 

[Internet Kraken]

Communism doesn't work for a reason.

Hint: It's because of the people.

 

[Flishiz]

Work for pay is the modern equvalent of survival. As man once had to hunt for food, we now have to work jobs for it. It's the society that we live in, and it works.

 

[captainwillies]

No, just no for fuck's sake.

Communism killed over 100 million people already .

communism didnt kill 100million. Stalin and Mao killed 100 million people.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

It all comes down to redistribution of goods by the goverment.

Some redistribution is a good thing.

As current events have shown, 5% of the people holding 95% of the wealth doesn't really work well.

 

[Falconus]

Your "solution" is based on unrealistic ideals and access to resources we don't have. So this really isn't a solution, it's wishing. It's saying "wouldn't it be nice if...".

You want solutions to these problems, I'll give it my best shot.

War against terror: Well this one's easy, just stop being at war.

Climate change: First of all we don't want to stop this, Climate change is what the earth does so stopping it would be really bad. all we can really do is stay out of it's way. Now personally I'm against this as I kinda like the warm weather and really don't want an ice age, but meh you guys want it so I guess I've got to go along with it. So, massive change to electric cars, renewable energy sources and all the other clever little ideas people have come up with, we just have to actually use them instead of saying we will. Carbon emissions, well... they're not really as bad as everyone makes them out to be.

The economic crisis: This is actually a lot simpler than people think. Pretend it didn't happen. Money is a concept and as such we can do whatever the hell we want with it, we just need to get everyone to agree. For a solution obeying our own rules, tax the rich. After a certain point all fortunes are equal and the people with the cash can't possibly improve their standard of living any further. might as well give it to someone whose standard of living could be improved. To prevent it happening again we need a change in policy. This happened because the consumer didn't have the money to consume, so pay workers higher wages. Easy.

Pharmaceutical companies being bastards: Not much that can be done really, some people are just pricks. I guess the best thing you could do is have an informed population, but that's unlikely.

School shootings: sadly not much that can be done about this either. People are bullied and snap, people are crazy and snap. it happens and we can't monitor everyone to make sure it doesn't.

Bridges collapsing: ....Proper maintenance?, build them to safety standards and regulations?.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

Climate change: First of all we don't want to stop this, Climate change is what the earth does so stopping it would be really bad. all we can really do is stay out of it's way. Now personally I'm against this as I kinda like the warm weather and really don't want an ice age, but meh you guys want it so I guess I've got to go along with it. So, massive change to electric cars, renewable energy sources and all the other clever little ideas people have come up with, we just have to actually use them instead of saying we will. Carbon emissions, well... they're not really as bad as everyone makes them out to be.

At the rate it normally takes place (varying from year to year but averaging out at a degree or two during a millenia) no we don't want to bother with it.

At the current rate (degrees per decade) we are running a real risk of catastrophic destruction of or life support systems in the near future.

The environment will be fine. Nature has faced far worse than Humanity and has come back smiling every time. Humans won't survive it though, and there is probably a moral in there somewhere, but I can't be bothered looking for it.

 

[jockslap]

This is whats called a good idea in theory, theoretically if everyone was behind it and supported it, it would work wonderfully, unfortunately, this will fail the same way communism failed and for the exact same reason, not everyone is willing to chip in, and some would be willing to take and take and give nothing back, therefore you're idea is great IN THEORY, but in real life it would never work.

 

[Aramax]

This is whats called a good idea in theory, theoretically if everyone was behind it and supported it, it would work wonderfully, unfortunately, this will fail the same way communism failed and for the exact same reason, not everyone is willing to chip in, and some would be willing to take and take and give nothing back, therefore you're idea is great IN THEORY, but in real life it would never work.

If you had a chance to test a resource-based economical system identical to the one I presented, would you back it up?

The whole debate is hypothetical because theorically it's possible that the war will just end, that the climate will just restore itself to what it used to be, that the economy will just restabilize itself, that the bureaucrats will become more responsible and start to really care about the lives of others, that everyone will stop being lazy and give everything they can for their work and labor no matter how much they hate their work, that all the hobos of the world will just find a job, that the third world countries will stop starving to dead and that violence in the world will simply cease... but it's unlikely.

Are you willing to wait and see what will happen or do you guys want to start something that could ultimately save us all?

 

[Echo3Delta]

Everyone who wish to work just need to enlist. You get formation for what you wish to accomplish with your life. In the event of mass laziness, robots will be created for the tasks left that needs to be done. People who dont want to or can't work dont have to.

ROBOTS! Why on Earth didn't anyone think of this sooner?! All we have to do is make about 2 billion durable, intelligent, and creative machines, and all our woes will be over! Someone definitely needs to get this on President Obama's desk stat!

On a more serious note, Jesus said, "Love thy neighbor as yourself." I think it's revealing that even Jesus knows that self-love is an intrinsic part of our nature. He also doesn't seem to condemn it outright, as he commands us to love others AS we love ourselves; not BEFORE we love ourselves. My point is: Even the most selfless and wisest man who ever lived did not try to eliminate love of self from human nature. Guess what? You're not going to.

 

[Naeberius]

communism (stop trying to bottle old wine in new bottles and call it something else) is an ideal which if human nature was predictable and non random which would result in a utopia. but as humans are still just apes with big brains and less body hair (most of the time) we are still random. humans are prone to violent outbursts, uncontrolled emotions and an insatiable greed for power and resources. this is why we have serious criminals, they act out of a darker side of nature. im not trying to piss on your idea but it has been tried before (with disastrous) consequences. IF at some point in time a government is completely just and corrupt THEN socialism would work perfectly.

 

[Naeberius]

Everyone who wish to work just need to enlist. You get formation for what you wish to accomplish with your life. In the event of mass laziness, robots will be created for the tasks left that needs to be done. People who dont want to or can't work dont have to.

ROBOTS! Why on Earth didn't anyone think of this sooner?! All we have to do is make about 2 billion durable, intelligent, and creative machines, and all our woes will be over! Someone definitely needs to get this on President Obama's desk stat!

On a more serious note, Jesus said, "Love thy neighbor as yourself." I think it's revealing that even Jesus knows that self-love is an intrinsic part of our nature. He also doesn't seem to condemn it outright, as he commands us to love others AS we love ourselves; not BEFORE we love ourselves. My point is: Even the most selfless and wisest man who ever lived did not try to eliminate love of self from human nature. Guess what? You're not going to.

the problem with enslaving robots is what happens if they become self aware? is it even morally reprehensible to even do this?

 

[Beefcakes]

No, just no for fuck's sake.

Communism killed over 100 million people already and this shit would end exactly the same.

I was hoping for a second that by "resource based economy" you meant going back to gold parity, butI'm disappointed that you're just another naive fool.

As sad as this is, this is probably the thing I most agree with so far.

Communism isn't that flash, I'll stick with whatever Australia has for the moment (Some sort of bastard child parented by Monarchy and Democracy...)

 

[Aramax]

ROBOTS! Why on Earth didn't anyone think of this sooner?! All we have to do is make about 2 billion durable, intelligent, and creative machines, and all our woes will be over! Someone definitely needs to get this on President Obama's desk stat!

On a more serious note, Jesus said, "Love thy neighbor as yourself." I think it's revealing that even Jesus knows that self-love is an intrinsic part of our nature. He also doesn't seem to condemn it outright, as he commands us to love others AS we love ourselves; not BEFORE we love ourselves. My point is: Even the most selfless and wisest man who ever lived did not try to eliminate love of self from human nature. Guess what? You're not going to.

http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news/2003/08/59882
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=1363718
http://www.japantoday.com/category/technology/view/commercialization-of-nurse-robots-seen-in-5-years

Robots have been used in car production over the last three decades. It wont be surprising to see a lot of new companies rise above everyone else just because they have robots instead of manual workers.

It's just the beginning.

A bonus just for you guys. Listen to this, it will change your life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4

 

[dwightsteel]

Aramax, if you're just messing around, kudos.

if you're not, then you are one ballsy mofo for thinking you have, on the escapist forums, come up with an economic and governmental system that is better than everything that has come before it. Your first two contentions are straight up Marxism (or at least very generous interpretations). Your third and fourth contentions are...well they are ripped off from an episode of South Park.

Again, I would have thought you were joking, but you seem to be defending this rather fervently.

I am more then a little awestruck to be honest.

Oh, and as to your second contention, I refer you to the Animatrix.