KB+M and gamepads for gaming. Why is there such an issue with either being switched?

[AnthrSolidSnake]

Ever since I've been in the PC gaming scene, there have been numerous times that I have been pretty much ridiculed for using a gamepad with pretty much any PC game compatible with one. I get rude remarks and treated as a moron when I ask if a game supports a gamepad, and I'm called "a dirty console peasant" by quite a few people. I even ask "Why does it matter to you what a person wants to use to play a game they pay for?" and the only answer is "Because that's how it's supposed to be played". But why is it that only the PC gaming community does this? Granted, it's just a portion of it, but it's quite a few, and I don't understand it.

For example, I never played the first "The Witcher", and saw it was on Steam. Before buying it, I recalled that the second game had full 360 controller support, and wondered if the first was the same (I had no idea that the combat and gameplay was VERY reliant on the point and click method of a mouse at the time, figuring it would have been similar to The Witcher 2 instead). The replies were as you could assume. A few "No it doesn't" replies, and also quite a few "No you fucking moron, you can't play it with a controller. Go back to your Xbox 360 you console peasant", or some variation of that. It was a simple question, and not even on a forum. This was asking through voice chat while playing an online game.

Now, why is it always PC games that get treated with the "It's how you're supposed to play" treatment, but when it's a game made for console first, and ported to PC second, there's no fuss about people using mouse and keyboard? GTA 4 was made for controller, but people used KB+M with no complaints. There are even game ON CONSOLE that support mouse and keyboard. No one thinks twice.

Why is it such an issue for some people that someone uses one or the other? I know KB+M (Well, it's just the mouse. For movement, controller has the advantage) has better precision, FPS games in particular, but for a single player, and even PC multiplayer games that let you use one, it shouldn't matter that someone does.

 

[thesilentman]

... There are people who take issue with certain games being played with controllers on PC? Some pretentious assholes they are. -.-

I don't really know why; I think it has something to do with the fact that most PC (only) games have a lot of ingame features that can't translate to a gamepad or a need of utmost sensitivity. Like I said, I have no idea why people get pissed about that, but just ignore them I say. We're not all like that. I play couple of games on my PS3 controller simply because it works for some games even though I prefer keyboard and mouse most of the time.

 

[CrystalShadow]

That sounds like you've been talking to idiots.

The only thing about the argument, is that the keyboard + mouse combo is better for certain genres. (first person shooters, primarily)

However, the reverse is equally true. I'd hate to play a platformer with a keyboard & mouse.

Problem is, there's a difference between admitting some tools are superior for certain kinds of tasks, and blithely declaring one to be superior outright.

People like that are going about things all wrong.

It's like saying, which is better? A saw, or a hammer?
And someone yelling SAWS ARE AWESOME, AND ARE BETTER THAN ANY HAMMER!!!

But clearly, that's stupid. Yet some people don't seem to be able to grasp that.

 

[Gatx]

It's funny I remember watching the Gametrailers review of the Witcher 2 which stated a lot of the elements about the UI felt like they were meant for console play or at least a gamepad, but at that point there wasn't a console version out yet.

Also reminds me of when I was looking into whether or not they ever added in keyboard movement (like Bastion) to Diablo 3...

No idea why people get pissy about Keyboard and Mouse, especially given that it's not actually universally better than a conroller.

Sure, it's better than controller at a few certain things (FPS aiming), but there are also things that controllers do much better: left analogue stick for movment, for instance. With a keyboard, you're essentially stuck with a digital-input, four button layout for movement with the WASD keys. Essentially a D-pad. You get 8 directions of movement if you include pressing two buttons at the same time, but that's it. Even worse, you cannot select pressure. It's a simple on/off step.

If you were ever playing team-based multiplayer, the point about FPS's is legitimate enough if it's coming from your teammates.

 

[Gergar12_v1legacy]

Ever since I've been in the PC gaming scene, there have been numerous times that I have been pretty much ridiculed for using a gamepad with pretty much any PC game compatible with one. I get rude remarks and treated as a moron when I ask if a game supports a gamepad, and I'm called "a dirty console peasant" by quite a few people. I even ask "Why does it matter to you what a person wants to use to play a game they pay for?" and the only answer is "Because that's how it's supposed to be played". But why is it that only the PC gaming community does this? Granted, it's just a portion of it, but it's quite a few, and I don't understand it.

For example, I never played the first "The Witcher", and saw it was on Steam. Before buying it, I recalled that the second game had full 360 controller support, and wondered if the first was the same (I had no idea that the combat and gameplay was VERY reliant on the point and click method of a mouse at the time, figuring it would have been similar to The Witcher 2 instead). The replies were as you could assume. A few "No it doesn't" replies, and also quite a few "No you fucking moron, you can't play it with a controller. Go back to your Xbox 360 you console peasant", or some variation of that. It was a simple question, and not even on a forum. This was asking through voice chat while playing an online game.

Now, why is it always PC games that get treated with the "It's how you're supposed to play" treatment, but when it's a game made for console first, and ported to PC second, there's no fuss about people using mouse and keyboard? GTA 4 was made for controller, but people used KB+M with no complaints. There are even game ON CONSOLE that support mouse and keyboard. No one thinks twice.

Why is it such an issue for some people that someone uses one or the other? I know KB+M (Well, it's just the mouse. For movement, controller has the advantage) has better precision, FPS games in particular, but for a single player, and even PC multiplayer games that let you use one, it shouldn't matter that someone does.

Wow what a arrgoant bunch of jackasses.

That sounds like you've been talking to idiots.

The only thing about the argument, is that the keyboard + mouse combo is better for certain genres. (first person shooters, primarily)

However, the reverse is equally true. I'd hate to play a platformer with a keyboard & mouse.

Problem is, there's a difference between admitting some tools are superior for certain kinds of tasks, and blithely declaring one to be superior outright.

People like that are going about things all wrong.

It's like saying, which is better? A saw, or a hammer?
And someone yelling SAWS ARE AWESOME, AND ARE BETTER THAN ANY HAMMER!!!

But clearly, that's stupid. Yet some people don't seem to be able to grasp that.

Pretty much.

 

[SilkySkyKitten]

Alas, many members of the PC gaming "Master Race" these days seem to think that if a game is on PC it must be played with a keyboard and mouse. Doesn't matter if it's a game that just plays better with a controller (i.e. say, a racing game or a flight game, which just don't play well without a controller at all), because its on a PC it must be keyboard and mouse otherwise it's console bullshit.

The real kicker about this mindset? It is truly a step backwards, considering that in the 80's and up until the mid-to-late 90's it was pretty much required you owned at least a simple joystick to play games. Playing with a keyboard was considered inferior, because it could not provide the precision and feel of using a controller. Hell, certain classic PC games like X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter wouldn't even install if they didn't detect a joystick plugged in.
Now, of course, this mindset back then was primarily since video games were still very arcadey and simple. Having a joystick made it feel more like you were genuinely playing a game at the arcades, and when it came to flight sims (a genre that was more prevalent decades ago than it is now) having a joystick was just considered a common requirement and you were silly not to have one. Games that properly made use of mice and keyboards really didn't come into the picture until the mid-90's, so it took a little while for even computer gaming to fully accept keyboards and mice as a legitimately good form of input.

But, still, at the same time controllers have been a part of PC gaming since the very beginning. Therefore saying that using a controller on a PC is blasphemous or is only for console scrubs is simply bullshit. And, above all, it shows that whomever says that doesn't know anything about how controllers are deeply engraved into PC gaming or even the history of PC gaming... at all.

 

[Funyahns]

The question should be why do you care what other think about how you play your own games?

 

[loc978]

The youngest member of my current roleplaying group sometimes plays Far Cry 3 on his laptop during downtime (he doesn't get much time to play video games at home, so he's been working through it very slowly). He uses a logitech twin-stick gamepad similar to a Playstation's. The first time he did so, he asked us not to hate him for committing a sacrilege, it's just what he's used to. Everyone present seemed puzzled by the statement. After all, controlling an FPS with thumbsticks isn't evil, it's just not as precise. I told him I wouldn't ridicule him for playing on extra-hard mode... but that I wouldn't play Killing Floor with him on anything over normal.

So yeah, the only people who have any right to complain are teammates in multiplayer if the gamepad is keeping you from pulling your weight in a match. Anyone who tells you playing a single-player game with your chosen method of input is wrong... well, they're wrong... as long as that input method is supported by the game, of course. In the case of the Witcher 1, "the UI absolutely requires mouse input to function" would have been an acceptable answer, rather than "you can't use a gamepad, you stupid peasant"... which is, of course, a manifestation of a serious superiority complex. Might wanna recommend those kids find psychologists.

 

[LetalisK]

As a member of the PC Gaming Master Race, I hereby decree that gamepads may be used on PC games. However, use of gamepads in competitive or cooperative first person shooter multiplayer shall risk the swift retribution of one's brothers-in-arms by either verbal abuse or boot to the posterior.

You are welcome.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Because some people are pretentious dickheads and have their heads lodged firmly up their asses. You should ignore them.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

Because lolpcmasterrace.

Really, feel free to ignore them. They're dumbasses.

 

[Koshok]

I personally far prefer mouse and keyboard for almost all games. This includes games that you would expect controller to be better, like Arkham Asylum or Tomb Raider (2013). The precision I get with the camera more than makes up for the digital movement input. The digital movement is a detriment only in the rarest of circumstances, and is easily accounted for with a 'walk' key.

As for why people would get upset over you wanting to play with a controller, I see two reasons for it. One, as others have noted, is because they're jerks.

The other reason is the idea that adding controller support changes design philosophy. In order to make a control scheme work for a controller, it must be more limited than using a keyboard. A controller has 12 buttons, 16 if you include the + directional pad. In the default WASD position, I can easily reach 26 buttons in addition to WASD, not to mention the rest of the keys on the keyboard. This allows for more complex control schemes without hindering gameplay. It's a bit of a slippery-slope argument, but the idea is that if game devs are encouraged to put 360 controller support into everything, then all games will become more stream-lined and "dumbed down."

 

[Smooth Operator]

Why is it only an issue with PC games... well since when did you get any options on consoles?

As for why people claim only one is valid, because they are the kind of idiots who think only their way of life is correct, avoid these people because they extend far and wide beyond gaming and are never of any benefit.

But I will not ever condone your game not working with the default platform control scheme, if you can't be arsed to do basic features then don't bother making the damn game.

 

[Piorn]

It really depends on what kind of game you play.
WASD is terrible for precise movement, and a Stick is terrible for precise aiming.
I wish I could use the left half of a gamepad in tandem with a mouse, Like the Wii Nunchuck.
That'd be the best of both worlds.

 

[The_Echo]

"Because that's how it's supposed to be played".

If... if the game supports a gamepad, then... isn't that also how it's supposed to be played?

PC elitists kind of make me sick. I imagine their community is nothing more than a circlejerk laced with superiority complex. I can't tell you the number of times I've been in a conversation with such people where they oozed this sense of "I'm better than you" because I play on consoles (despite also playing on PC).

Personally, I grew up on consoles and handhelds, and continue to play on them primarily. So a controller feels much more natural to me than a keyboard. If I have the option on PC, I play the game with a controller (with a few exceptions).

It's all about what feels better.

 

[endtherapture]

"Because that's how it's supposed to be played".

If... if the game supports a gamepad, then... isn't that also how it's supposed to be played?

PC elitists kind of make me sick. I imagine their community is nothing more than a circlejerk laced with superiority complex. I can't tell you the number of times I've been in a conversation with such people where they oozed this sense of "I'm better than you" because I play on consoles (despite also playing on PC).

Personally, I grew up on consoles and handhelds, and continue to play on them primarily. So a controller feels much more natural to me than a keyboard. If I have the option on PC, I play the game with a controller (with a few exceptions).

It's all about what feels better.

No because some games support gamepads but are god awful on them.

I couldn't play Arkham Asylum with a gamepad, the keyboard/mouse controls are simply much easier and more precise, can't move the camera fast enough with a game pad.

 

[Shpongled]

"Because that's how it's supposed to be played".

If... if the game supports a gamepad, then... isn't that also how it's supposed to be played?

PC elitists kind of make me sick. I imagine their community is nothing more than a circlejerk laced with superiority complex. I can't tell you the number of times I've been in a conversation with such people where they oozed this sense of "I'm better than you" because I play on consoles (despite also playing on PC).

Personally, I grew up on consoles and handhelds, and continue to play on them primarily. So a controller feels much more natural to me than a keyboard. If I have the option on PC, I play the game with a controller (with a few exceptions).

It's all about what feels better.

No because some games support gamepads but are god awful on them.

I couldn't play Arkham Asylum with a gamepad, the keyboard/mouse controls are simply much easier and more precise, can't move the camera fast enough with a game pad.

Played through both arkham games with only a controller on the hardest difficulties. As did tens of thousands of other people.

If you had a problem with the controller input, it was entirely your own.

Honestly, how fast do you need to move the camera in that game? Your complaint is ridiculous.

Edit: This is the attitude that pisses me off most about the whole KB/M vs. Controller thing. PC players saying K/M is just flat out better because this one time they tried a game with a controller and it was so bad they couldn't do it. No, it's not the controller thats bad, it's you. No shit you're not as good with a controller as you are with KB/M, you play with a KB/M most of the time!

The only exception to this is, as others have said, competetive multiplayer games :- FPS and strategy games in favour of KB/M and fighting games in favour of controllers.

 

[Flames66]

No idea why people get pissy about Keyboard and Mouse, especially given that it's not actually universally better than a controller.

I'm with you on this bit. I seem to automatically filter out most of the troll responses when asking a question so I don't notice this problem as much, but it is a major issue that people can't give advice without being condescending about it.

Sure, it's better than controller at a few certain things (FPS aiming), but there are also things that controllers do much better: left analogue stick for movment, for instance. With a keyboard, you're essentially stuck with a digital-input, four button layout for movement with the WASD keys. Essentially a D-pad. You get 8 directions of movement if you include pressing two buttons at the same time, but that's it. Even worse, you cannot select pressure. It's a simple on/off step.

With the left analogue stick, you get 360 degrees of movement. You can move the stick in any direction, and your character will match it identically. That alone is a huge step up from KB+M, and perhaps explains why platformers never took off on computers like they did consoles. Even better, with analogue sticks, you can apply varying degrees of pressure to increase movement in increments. Move the stick slightly forwards, and your character can tiptoe forwards. Move the stick halfway forwards, and they can move up to a leisurely walk. Move it all the way forwards, and they can start jogging at a brisk pace. That is something KB+M simply cannot emulate without additional button presses.

Regarding movement, you can emulate 360 movement by moving the camera with your character, but even that is a step down. In console games, you can move your character in any direction entirely independently of the camera, which is great for a) games that use a fixed camera, or b) games where the main character isn't locked to the centre of the camera lens. You can set up the camera in a console game, then move your character entirely independently of it if you want to. Whereas in PC games, you need to have the camera constantly locked behind the character if you want to be able to move it, and thusly move your character through 360 degrees of movement. For shooters, that's ok. For anything that's not a shooter, it's a fair bit more problematic.

I personally prefer using the digital K/M controls in all my games. I also despise having my camera anywhere but centered. I agree that an analogue input stick more accurately interprets movement, but I have always found the different pressures confusing. I prefer to know exactly how far I will move from a single press of a key, even when platforming. I also really dislike using an analogue stick to aim.