KB+M and gamepads for gaming. Why is there such an issue with either being switched?

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CrystalShadow

don't upset the insane catgirl
Apr 11, 2009
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Tanakh said:
CrystalShadow said:
I'll give you RTS and MMO's, but fighting games? 0_o? What are you smoking? XD
You concede RTS and MMO's, I would assume the ARTS genre (or MOBA if you prefer) would naturally be included.
That would be because I have next to no idea what ARTS referred to. Can't meaningfully comment on a genre I don't know anything about.

As for fighting games, the KB is better than a gamepad, that is due the input shortcuts it allows; tough I must admit it takes a while to get used to it and grapplers are especially tricky. Of course a hitbox is even better ( http://www.hitboxarcade.com/ ), as you can see is essentially a keyboard, but due the comfort it offers and the posibility of accelerating double taps with thechniques not possible in a regular KB it is just better. For more about the techniques easy on a button based controller and near impossible with a dpad or a stick, see the youtube hitbox vids, great stuff.
Well, now you're clearly getting into a grey area here. Your point about keyboards seems a little strange (and from what I understand of fighting games, a little towards the realms of cheating).
Also, calling a device such as the hitbox a 'keyboard' is really stretching the definition.

The optimal controls for fighting games, historically, have been arcade style joysticks. These have existed for consoles for quite some time. The hitbox seems to be a variant of one of these.

But I've never heard of such a device being considered a 'keyboard'. If anything, they're closer in design and construction generally to a controller. (Game controller is an incredibly broad term by the way. Have a look through the history of them to get an idea of everything that it encompasses.)

I mean, by the reasoning you're using, you can start to argue that a keyboard and game controller are the same thing. After all, both typically contain grids of buttons, which create signals when pressed. (I've more than once configured a console game controller to output keyboard key presses.)

Basically, you're redefining the term 'keyboard', to include things which are actually part of the classification of 'game controllers'.
But perhaps you've become so accustomed to the standardised console controller design that you've actually forgotten what a game controller actually is.

Again, I do not remember an Esport in which a controller would be the input of choice. That is not to say you can't win on a controller.

On that note, i need a hitbox... not sure if i should get it right now tough, change of consoles and stuff.
Racing games, arguably. (Though a proper racing wheel and pedals would be preferable, which is of course neither a game controller or keyboard.) Fighting games, taking into account what I've just said. Platformers. (Though I can't say I've ever come across one that counts as an e-sport.).

But anyway, given what you class under 'keyboard', I'm not surprised you make such odd statements.
 

shrekfan246

Not actually a Japanese pop star
May 26, 2011
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Retrograde said:
Just to re-iterate, I've never played on a PC shooter, are the gun mechanics of PC games, "click on the guy to win"?
The gun mechanics of console games are "click on the guy to win" as well, the difference is that instead of clicking a mouse button you're depressing a controller trigger.

You still have to manually aim on the PC, if that's what you're asking about.
 

Kyrdra

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May 19, 2013
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Retrograde said:
So? You're irrelevant, I don't have anything invested either way in what you get from my posts OR your attempts to troll me/the strawman you threw up in place of me. So crack on thinking that I guess?

Just to re-iterate, I've never played on a PC shooter, are the gun mechanics of PC games, "click on the guy to win"?
you move the camera with the mouse and everything in the middle dies when you click. So same as consoles they just use the right Stick to move the aim instead of a mouse
 

IceForce

Is this memes?
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Dec 11, 2012
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Retrograde said:
Console gamer here...

I don't know how PC shooters work, but is it true that you fire guns by clicking on a guy? Just click on head, head is blown up?

Is that really how it works? Because given how much of an elitist bunch PC gamers tend to front themselves as, that's a ridiculously God-mode way of choosing to play your games. Just saying.
Actually, it could be argued that console gaming is even more "god-mode-y", because on consoles you have aim-assist.

Also, what you're saying here could be said about real life too...
"Really? Is that how it works? I just point this gun at someone's head and pull the trigger, and their head blows up?"

... so you're not really making a point of difference here.
 

endtherapture

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Nov 14, 2011
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Retrograde said:
endtherapture said:
Retrograde said:
Console gamer here...

I don't know how PC shooters work, but is it true that you fire guns by clicking on a guy? Just click on head, head is blown up?

Is that really how it works? Because given how much of an elitist bunch PC gamers tend to front themselves as, that's a ridiculously God-mode way of choosing to play your games. Just saying.
keyboard mouse ez mode consoles gamers r the pr0est


...

that's what I got from your post...
So? You're irrelevant, I don't have anything invested either way in what you get from my posts OR your attempts to troll me/the strawman you threw up in place of me. So crack on thinking that I guess?

Just to re-iterate, I've never played on a PC shooter, are the gun mechanics of PC games, "click on the guy to win"?
Yes. Exactly the same as on console.
 

Tanakh

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Jul 8, 2011
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CrystalShadow said:
ARTS is a therm that I (along with some others) use for games like DotA2 or LoL, because its the acronym for Action Real Time Strategy, and seems far more descriptive and precise than MOBA (Multiplayer Online Battle Arena) which honestly could be used for WoW Arena or Battlegrounds, Frozen Synapse or Marvel vs Capcom 3 as easily as DotA.

As for the rest of your post, disregarding the "is it cheating?" issue (it's not as most tournaments allow it), I guess our issue is an epistemological one. I would argue that the main difference between a KB and a gamepad is that in a KB your move input is done by independent keystrokes, on a gamepad is done either with the analog stick or a dpad; due that all the moves that you can do on a hitbox are easily repeatable on a KB (slide and double taps are not as easy, but doable), personally i am using a SPACE,A,S,D (for UP,LEFT,DOWN,RIGHT) and the numerical keyboard for punches and kicks and use the hitbox guide to improve. What is your reason to say a hitbox is closer to a fighting stick than a KB?

Cheers and XOXO.

PD. Competitive racing games? o_O I guess you see something new everyday.

PPD. KB for SF IV guide http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=116817709#54151
 

Scott Rothman

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Feb 2, 2012
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Someone please try to tell me that Dark Souls: PTD is meant to be played with a keyboard and mouse. Because good luck with that. There's even a warning when you download it that you should have a controller because the KB+M controls suck ballllllls