Ken Levine Wants You To Stop Staring At His Big Sisters

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Feb 13, 2008
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xXxJessicaxXx said:
The_root_of_all_evil said:
If you do wear clothing enhancers though, you will be looked at more. That's what freedom brings. Leering is a separate problem, related to unwelcome attention. Elizabeth can't be getting that.
This whole thing was less in response to the Elizabeth matter and more towards the fact that a guy said women shouldn't complain if they get leered at while showing skin.
The problem is that no-one has defined what leering is. If you've got breasts on display, I'm going to look (no matter what my personal morals are telling me) BUT then I'll try and look away unless it's obvious that the person is trying to catch my attention.

That's a learned social trait. Like not pushing in front of people, manners or anything else that makes others feel uncomfortable.

If the entire marketing industry bases itself on "HELLO BOYS!", then it's not tough to see why a lot of men will be taking that as gospel.

Doesn't mean it's right. But bodices galore give a very mixed message to guys trying to learn how. Especially when the lower brain is wrestling for control of the eyes.

In gender reversal, there's few things as attractive to a young woman as a rake; but you know yourself that they're the ones who are going to cheat on you. Doesn't help the fact you giggle when they smile though, does it?

We're all slaves to our hormones - but if there's no set rules on when and where, people will get confused.
 

Elementary - Dear Watson

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Nov 9, 2010
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Maybe they are setting her up to be unlockable in the next DoA game?

Also, hey, they pitch these games at gamers, and gamers are used to characters with big busts... Most female characters wear tight revealing clothing, and have a lot of chest to fit in there... To be honest, I bet more people would be talking if they wern't so 'exaggerated'... If its what they do to make a character more popular, and sell more games, then so be it! And hey, she has the girl next door charms already, I expect there are a lot of people lining up now so they can adventure along side her!
 

Foxtrotk72

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Feb 27, 2010
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So what if people stare at the characters breasts all it is pixels? i see nothing wrong with it guess hes just annoyed at us i could be wrong either way doesn't bother me he should just lighten up for god sake
 

unacomn

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Mar 3, 2008
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Again,the internet starts oogling the new girl and her dad makes her wear a sweater. This is why I never make visual representations of my fictional characters. Who knows what perverts would do to them.
 

Aureliano

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Mar 5, 2009
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Okay. Simple test, here we go: that woman across the coffee shop who gets offended if you stare at her boobs? A real woman. An actual one with thoughts, feelings, a level of intelligence, probably a sense of humor that may indeed not be tickled at a person filing a glance of her boobs away as masturbation fodder, with relationships and cares and a libido all her own.

Now: try watching a trailer of Bioshock Infinite without staring at Elizabeth's boobs, then watch it again and only look at her boobs. Is her reaction different? No. No it's not. You know why? Because she doesn't exist. She's not real. She's a made-up, computer-animated character with pre-scripted responses to stuff even in the game and not just in the trailers. She can't get offended by something you do, she can't enjoy something you do, she can't think or feel, etc.

Also, if what I hear is correct this is all based on a girl Ken either dated or had a crush on. Sorry if he's jealous, but them's the breaks. And giant robotic birds, I guess.
 

Diddy_Mao

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I'm not a fan of the Bioshock series, but I am a fan of good character design and I have to admit that I like the look and feel of Elizabeth. I know fuck all about Bioshock Infinite but I'm still intrigued by her character and no small part of that is due to her amazing character design and every ounce of that is due to the expressiveness of her face in the promo clips I've seen.


But here's the thing...

She's wearing an hourglass corset.
An article of clothing, designed for pretty much the sole purpose of thinning the waist line and accentuating the bust.

On top of that her costume is pretty much designed to draw attention to her chest. The blue piping on the corset, the open shortcoat and the choker...it all combines to frame and draw attention to her chest.


So yeah, I can understand Mr. Levine's frustration, but I can't say I sympathize with it.
 

Bvenged

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Sep 4, 2009
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Yeah, those eyes are really big and pointy - they did a great job in capturing emotion... emotion...
Ehm, uh what?
Oh right,her eyes...
 

Corporal Yakob

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Nov 28, 2009
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Wait wait wait-so Elizabeth isn't a Little Sister grown up right? Honestly trying to find an answer here, I don't know much about the game other then its exceptionally American Rapture IN THE SKYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
 

Hypermini

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Jan 5, 2012
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Sorry been a lurker a while but i found this when someone mentioned the character may be based on someone and thought it may be important:

http://gotgame.com/2011/10/13/ken-levine-draws-from-personal-experience-for-bioshock-infinites-elizabeth/

If its true (this is the only time ive heard it was based on someone he knew) then i can understand why he may care about elizibeths character a bit more personally and id be much less cynical about this being a marketing attempt. it is a bit dangerous putting too much of yourself or your life into what you create sometimes, maybe this is an example of that, i dunno.
 

Helmholtz Watson

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Raiyan 1.0 said:
It's quite obvious what she needs...

<youtube=krME5DvZFRQ>

Eyes up here.
lmao, you win this thread and the internet. Congratulation and enjoy being the new King/Queen of the internet
 

Treblaine

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xXxJessicaxXx said:
So you think making someone feel uncomfortable is okay?
I'm not really talking about someone glancing at you more like staring or leering.

And my point was that nowhere would anyone say that guy had loose morals, but if a woman was wandering around dress liked that it would be a different story.
Here is the thing, people get uncomfortable by lots of things. People get uncomfortable by gays holding hands in public and they demand (unfairly) that they not show any affection towards each other. People don't like to hear babies crying on a plane, people don't like to have to AVOID looking at someone who is exposing their cleavage or buttocks.

But today we live in a much more tolerant society.

Really there is no actual difference between looking and leering. It is purely subjective on whether the person being looked at approves of them being looked at or not. You can't forbid anything more than a glance, you can't order people where to direct their eyeballs. Eyes are COMPLETELY PASSIVE! It has been utterly debunked as superstition that the eyes cast a "gaze" onto people and objects. All eyes do is absorb and detect light.

It's not like the gazers are invading the sparse-dresser's privacy as they chose the dress that way in public. It's not like someone who is disrobed by some other factor against their will where they never intended their body to be fully on view in which case there is the obligation to avert gaze in recognition that it was an injustice for them to have been disrobed against their will.

Associating a person's morality with their dress code is quite irrelevant to the issue of where to look. Any mature adult knows better than to judge by appearance but rather by interaction. There are a Thousand and One reasons why anyone dresses any way and often it is deliberately contradictory, it is impossible to guess what they intend as a person except by subtle interaction, communication to gauge level of interaction. Looking isn't interaction.

It's also impossible to judge someone from where they look, or what part of someone they look at. Just because someone looks at a person with prominently displayed cleavage DOES NOT MEAN always they consider the woman of "loose morals". Just admiring a part of the human body some have a natural fascination with.

"And my point was that nowhere would anyone say that guy had loose morals just that he looked after himself or his appearance"

I think ALL men are ALREADY assumed to have loose morals regardless of how they dress. Whether wearing low-riding jeans to priestly robes.

Personally I treat all men as likely rapist until proven otherwise and give all women the benefit of the doubt on their intended interaction. Is that sexist? I see it as practical in the same sense that if you have light skin pigment you should generally use more sunscreen for intense sunlight.
 

NLS

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Jan 7, 2010
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Did I miss something? Haven't seen or heard any debate over her breasts at all. The only mention has come from Kevin Levine. This looks more like media attention to me.
 

Hypermini

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Jan 5, 2012
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NLS said:
Did I miss something? Haven't seen or heard any debate over her breasts at all. The only mention has come from Kevin Levine. This looks more like media attention to me.
having watched a couple of videos on youtube i can say that while not really being discussed in forums every infinite youtbe video ive seen, even the small ones with less than 10,000 views, has a couple of guys pointing out her boobs and thats not just since that levine article came out :S
 

Cyrus Hanley

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Oct 13, 2010
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Breasts or no breasts, I look forward to having Elizabeth as my companion in BioShock Infinite. :-3
 

Otaku World Order

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Diddy_Mao said:
I'm not a fan of the Bioshock series, but I am a fan of good character design and I have to admit that I like the look and feel of Elizabeth. I know fuck all about Bioshock Infinite but I'm still intrigued by her character and no small part of that is due to her amazing character design and every ounce of that is due to the expressiveness of her face in the promo clips I've seen.


But here's the thing...

She's wearing an hourglass corset.
An article of clothing, designed for pretty much the sole purpose of thinning the waist line and accentuating the bust.

On top of that her costume is pretty much designed to draw attention to her chest. The blue piping on the corset, the open shortcoat and the choker...it all combines to frame and draw attention to her chest.


So yeah, I can understand Mr. Levine's frustration, but I can't say I sympathize with it.
And the thing is, that outfit fits with the period the game is set in. I say leav it alone.

I had an interest in Bioshock Infinite before, but Elizabeth changed me from being interested to being hyped and it wasn't because of the cleavage.

I remember in the gameplay demo they showed of Infinite at E3 they had a sequence with Booker and Elizabeth rummaging through a store. Elizabeth is astonished by a cheap souvenier statue and presents it saying "Look, Booker! Gold!" That scene may be more about the stuff Ken Levine is trying to sell us on when it comes to Elizabeth and, for me, it worked. I loved watching her goof around with a giant paper mache Abraham Lincoln head and when Songbird shows up, she quickly hides, covering he own mouth and looking around wide-eyed like a child hiding from a monster under the bed. I loved that scene and it really sold me on Elizabth as a character instead of a good-looking McGuffin to play escort missions with.
 

omicron1

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To me the proportions of the face are the problem. The eyes and mouth make Elizabeth fall so squarely in my uncanny valley I can barely stand to look at her, much less take her seriously.
To wit: She has the body of a Victorian-era lady, scaled to that of a young teenager, with an even younger head stuck on - then in the middle of that she has anime eyes and grotesque puckered mouth.

Give me Alyx any day of the week!
 

HentMas

The Loneliest Jedi
Apr 17, 2009
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I find it incredibly funny that

is what i was looking at while reading the whole article... yeah, those eyes are indeed important :p