Keyboard and mouse are losing the FPS market
- Thread starter Vault101
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At the end of the day, people will always use what they are more comfortable with and do better than they would outside of their element. Not debating that, and I'm sure there's plenty of people such as yourself who do better with a controller than with kb+mouse.EeviStev said:
The fact is though, IF you had the same prowess/experience with the kb+mouse as you do with the controller, you would be that much better at FPS games.
The kb+mouse simply allows for quicker and more accurate target acquisition compared to analog sticks.
What IS open to debate, is how important it is to someone's enjoyment as to whether or not they use the best method, or the method that they're content with. Personally, I would rather walk over broken glass than use a controller to play an FPS game because I cannot stand the loss of accuracy and target acquisition speed. However, if other's want to stick with the inferior input because they are better with it, more power to them.
I remember someone at school asked me how to get past the bit in the PS2 version of Max Payne, (yeah, long time ago,) where you have to shoot all the bombs on the elevator.
I told him you take the game back to the store and ask for the PC version.
OT: I only play console shooters because I don't have the finances/patience/know-how to build and run a modern gaming PC, but I don't understand how anyone can say that a mouse and keyboard is inferior to a gamepad (once you strip away all the aim assist bullshit).
And that quote from the Bungie guy is the most infuriatingly arrogant thing I've ever read, since almost everything he lists is what has diluted the genre into boring, generic sludge.
I told him you take the game back to the store and ask for the PC version.
OT: I only play console shooters because I don't have the finances/patience/know-how to build and run a modern gaming PC, but I don't understand how anyone can say that a mouse and keyboard is inferior to a gamepad (once you strip away all the aim assist bullshit).
And that quote from the Bungie guy is the most infuriatingly arrogant thing I've ever read, since almost everything he lists is what has diluted the genre into boring, generic sludge.
Not so niche that we didn't get Mass Effect 3, Dishonored, Battlefield 3, Call of Duty: Black Ops 2, DmC, Assassin's Creed 3, Borderlands 2, etc. Sure, we've missed out on the occasional Halo or Uncharted, but by and large we still get most of the big names, and I'd argue that things like GOG.com and the Humble Bundles at least make up for the console exclusives.Vault101 said:
But I can certainly imagine a future where the AAA devs overlooked PC gaming all together.
"Better" is the kind of term I'd leave to those who want to fight that particular war, but I certainly recognize that there are plenty of people who work in things like video editing, photo manipulation, and music composition who find that the tools available for the Macintosh are powerful, elegant, and efficient. The electronic music composition classes I took in college exclusively used Macintoshes for composition, and Loading Ready Run uses Macs for editing video. For simplicity's sake, I'd just say "it's a viable alternative."
It's a big enough problem that Valve, Mojang and Blizzard all expressed concern, and id chimed in with their own disdain. The desktop, where people can install applications that don't pass through Microsoft channels still exists, but Microsoft has put a hurdle in place to getting to it, and is seriously banking that many people won't bother. I hope they're wrong. Frankly, I hope W8 fails just hard enough to make them rethink the whole thing without crashing the company.
Erhm, not sure if this has been done before, but if not I think it should, could settle this whole thing once and for all.
Why not find a map, a place or.. some sort of area in a FPS game that is on both pc and ps3/xbox, like CoD or whatever not really important.
Set up some rules, and make this place a shooting range where you have a number of targets you have to hit.
With the same weapon, at the same range, you would either time how long it took to hit all targets, or accuracy of the shots and then see which group has the best score.
So why not just have a contest?
Why not find a map, a place or.. some sort of area in a FPS game that is on both pc and ps3/xbox, like CoD or whatever not really important.
Set up some rules, and make this place a shooting range where you have a number of targets you have to hit.
With the same weapon, at the same range, you would either time how long it took to hit all targets, or accuracy of the shots and then see which group has the best score.
So why not just have a contest?
Keyboard and mouse vs. controllers? Its a matter of personal preference. Its the same as arguing over who's favorite color is better
Are there any E-sports games where the [stock] controller is preferred? Serious question here.
MOBA/RTS - no way.
FPS - don't know about BLOPS, but they sure as shootin' weren't playing Quake with a d-pad.
Fighters - last I checked 90% of the serious players used an arcade stick.
MOBA/RTS - no way.
FPS - don't know about BLOPS, but they sure as shootin' weren't playing Quake with a d-pad.
Fighters - last I checked 90% of the serious players used an arcade stick.
Exactly! I've used a keyboard and mouse my whole life! When playing through some Half-Life Deathmatch or Unreal Arena, I'm nigh-unstoppable. When I try to play a round of, say... Halo Reach, I get creamed! (Unless I have the gold club. Somehow that ended up as my trump card, and I have no idea why.) Likewise, I know people who have stuck with consoles, and when they try to use PC controls, they have a real struggle with it.thesilentman said:
LOL what? yeah no way. KB+M is the only way to go for FPS. at first i was a console-boy and i struggled to do well in FPS games. i thought it was just the one type of game i suck at... until i finally sat down and played on the PC. zDoom and Serious Sam helped with that. At first it felt really uncomfortable and hurt my wrists but in almost no time i was blasting through stages in lightning speed on the hardest difficulty and still asking for more!
But no matter how much i practiced on the Gamepad, i still sucked. Some games work decently with the gamepad but most FPS games are uncontrollable for me. I can play them but only on Normal and barely survive. i cant even describe what its like but basically its like my character is either drunk or has a broken neck. Aiming on toggles in impossibly difficult for me.
now obviously there are people who have really mastered the gamepad with certain FPS games, they do exist but honestly i find it really hard to use for FPS games. (though this might be due to many games just lacking good compatibility with the gamepad)
now im not saying i hate the gamepad completely (or controller, or whatever you want to call it) im just saying i cant use it for FPS games. just about any other game it works great and i prefer it for almost any other game. (such as RPG's, 2d games and 3rd person action)
But no matter how much i practiced on the Gamepad, i still sucked. Some games work decently with the gamepad but most FPS games are uncontrollable for me. I can play them but only on Normal and barely survive. i cant even describe what its like but basically its like my character is either drunk or has a broken neck. Aiming on toggles in impossibly difficult for me.
now obviously there are people who have really mastered the gamepad with certain FPS games, they do exist but honestly i find it really hard to use for FPS games. (though this might be due to many games just lacking good compatibility with the gamepad)
now im not saying i hate the gamepad completely (or controller, or whatever you want to call it) im just saying i cant use it for FPS games. just about any other game it works great and i prefer it for almost any other game. (such as RPG's, 2d games and 3rd person action)
Did you really just post an article that outright states its results are heavily skewed in the mouse and keyboards favour as evidence?Treblaine said:
Come back when you have actual evidence instead of skewed studies and rumors.
In shooters that make use of auto-aiming or extremely thick enemy AI, you don't need a mouse and keyboard. For actually challenging shooters, you need Mouse and Keyboard. It's worth noting that I'm a PC gamer who uses a controller in many games.
I think that guy from Bungie is just trying to get more pre-orders. I'm sure he knows what he's full of.
I think that guy from Bungie is just trying to get more pre-orders. I'm sure he knows what he's full of.
No, you are cherry picking quotes, literally cutting a sentence in half missing the vital last half:Little Gray said:
Typing on a word processor and occasionally using the mouse to move the cursor is NOT going to establish any of the hand-eye-coordination muscle memory needed to navigate. They have as much experience with mouse and keyboard as any console gamer if they've ever had to do any kind of work on a computer.
This is a level of familiarity even YOU have by typing your very response to reject it.
Yet you imply these somehow skewed towards it, as if PC gamers, they are not. This is as close to a "Blank slate" comparison as you are going to get.
The test also found a complete unfamiliarity with the Aviation Joystick... but that did better than the gamepad.
You post is just another example of console gamer's expecting gamepad to get special treatment, they can't stand even a blank-slate comparison, it's got to have the contrivance of people who've never even touched a mouse and keyboard before nor seen them many times before.
And don't be so disingenuous to act like this is only only example proving how gamepads are holding you back. BTW, this is NOT elitism, this is NOT saying PEOPLE are better, this is saying that you have better options and you are unduly attached to gamepads and taking it personally.
http://www.rahulsood.com/2010/07/console-gamers-get-killed-against-pc.html
Covering one of the widest studied examples of mouse vs Gamepad play.
I blame the casual gamer. Call of Duty went from a game requiring skill and precision aiming, teamwork and sportsmanship; to a game full of immature high school potheads with nothing better to do than play 'Nazi Zombies' and Black Ops II. The games have gone from attention to detail, skill, and memory of the map; to kill streaks, perks, and half-cheats made for the casual gamer so that they play long enough to make a dollar for the company. Between installments, such as Black Ops 1 and 2, there was little to no improvement of the graphics engine, physics, or game play. They simply made the next big thing that would sell on store shelves come Christmas time and Boxing day.
The same thing happened to the Elder Scrolls franchise, the casual gamer ruined it for the older fans of the game. Morrowind, was the last installment to use dice-roll mechanics which were classic to nearly ALL role playing games at the time. The game has a great level of detail and immersion; to the point where you almost believed you were the Nerevarine incarnate destined to rid the land of all the filthy N'wah.
Now, this guy does a much better job explaining the dumbing down of the Elder Scrolls franchise, and why the Casual Gamer is at the root of the majority of problems the Gaming Industry faces today. (OMFGSH NEW GFX ITS AMAYZING DURRHURR)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JweTAhyR4o0
The same thing happened to the Elder Scrolls franchise, the casual gamer ruined it for the older fans of the game. Morrowind, was the last installment to use dice-roll mechanics which were classic to nearly ALL role playing games at the time. The game has a great level of detail and immersion; to the point where you almost believed you were the Nerevarine incarnate destined to rid the land of all the filthy N'wah.
Now, this guy does a much better job explaining the dumbing down of the Elder Scrolls franchise, and why the Casual Gamer is at the root of the majority of problems the Gaming Industry faces today. (OMFGSH NEW GFX ITS AMAYZING DURRHURR)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JweTAhyR4o0
Well the people who made the study felt somebody who has substantial familiarity with a mouse and keyboard vs somebody with no familiarity with a controller had a substantial advantage. They even went out of their way to point that out.Treblaine said:
Omg that is such a relevant point. Why thank you for pointing that out. Serious do you even have a fucking point here?
I kind of expected them to have either all three sides familiar with the device they were using or none. Not having almost everybody familiar with one, twenty five percent familiar with another and then randomly assigning them between three devices. They went out of their way to prove a point they had decided before they started the study.
Besides I never said I wanted a blank slate study as that is kind of useless. All a blank slate study could prove is which device could potentially have a steeper learning curve. If you want to try and prove which one is better you actually have to put people who have substantial experience with each device against each other.
It proves absolutely nothing at all. At best this study points out that gamepads have a steeper learning curve and that not as many people are familiar with them. The study could not prove anything because they failed the very basic step of having an even distribution among their test subjects.