Keyboard and mouse are losing the FPS market
- Thread starter Vault101
- Start date
Recommended Videos
I grew up with both, but nowadays I only use mouse, fundamentally because the games I like have changed and for the most part controllers don't cut it.
When you're controlling a single object on a screen, such as platformers or fighting games or 2D shooters, controllers are much more immersive and fun because they're designed to be comfortable.
But as soon as you need to pick out objects on the screen, whether you're aiming a gun in an FPS or selecting dudes in an RTS or whatever, mouse wins. It feels organic because it's very much like the process you use to look around and focus on objects with your eyes. You can be "looking at something" quite precisely from pretty much as soon as you can see it, just like real life.
Trying to do this with a controller is just an extra layer of abstraction between you and the action you're trying to do.
When you're controlling a single object on a screen, such as platformers or fighting games or 2D shooters, controllers are much more immersive and fun because they're designed to be comfortable.
But as soon as you need to pick out objects on the screen, whether you're aiming a gun in an FPS or selecting dudes in an RTS or whatever, mouse wins. It feels organic because it's very much like the process you use to look around and focus on objects with your eyes. You can be "looking at something" quite precisely from pretty much as soon as you can see it, just like real life.
Trying to do this with a controller is just an extra layer of abstraction between you and the action you're trying to do.
I honestly prefer controllers to M/K, but hear me out first.
I don't play FPSs with my focus being a sharpshooter (except in TF2 which is difinitively better on M/K. I play scout and snipah) when I play FPSs, my focus is on timing and movement. I parkour around the maps in Halo and Borderlands. I can't stand CoD because it's all about split second shooting and not movement. I like Battlefield because the size of the map offers an entire strategy to be built on movement. There's a reason I adore Tribes Ascend. When I learned of that series it was like a dream come true.
I've also clocked enough time on console shooters that I just get the inherent strategy to using analogue sticks in the first person environment. So couple getting how to shoot with an analogue stick, and being staunch in the defense of the analogue stick as being far, far better than WASD for movement, it should be obvious why I prefer playing shooters on my xbox then on my laptop.
I don't play FPSs with my focus being a sharpshooter (except in TF2 which is difinitively better on M/K. I play scout and snipah) when I play FPSs, my focus is on timing and movement. I parkour around the maps in Halo and Borderlands. I can't stand CoD because it's all about split second shooting and not movement. I like Battlefield because the size of the map offers an entire strategy to be built on movement. There's a reason I adore Tribes Ascend. When I learned of that series it was like a dream come true.
I've also clocked enough time on console shooters that I just get the inherent strategy to using analogue sticks in the first person environment. So couple getting how to shoot with an analogue stick, and being staunch in the defense of the analogue stick as being far, far better than WASD for movement, it should be obvious why I prefer playing shooters on my xbox then on my laptop.
Well consoles may have more players, but PC has the games. With the exception of Halo, we got all the popular ones they have, but with the addition of, among other things, excellent AAA-indie shooters (those two are not an oxymoron) like Red Orchestra 2 and Natural Selection 2.
But yeah... why can't we have both? Right now we do and I'm glad.
But yeah... why can't we have both? Right now we do and I'm glad.
Exactly. This is why I've been having so much fun with Dust 514. It's an open beta, and still looks pretty shit at the moment, but holy shit is it fun to mouse/keyboard murder a bunch of dual shock / sixaxis users to the point that it feels like you're cheating. You can always pick out the other m/k players too. I would love to see more of thisAaron Sylvester said:
I dont see how there can even be any question that the mouse is more precise then a stick, aiming using a gamepad involves pushing a stick in a direction you want to face and relying acceleration to get you there, hopefully accurately. With a mouse, I mean, for the most part there's no comparison, it's just point and click, way more natural.
Now an example akin to yours: Fallout 3/NV with a pad, try to line up a long shot with a sniper rifle, bonus points for doing it without also strafing left or right to help, and more bonus points for actually tracking the target instead of just waiting for them to walk into the crosshairs. Now, try it with a mouse. Exactly.
Sure, m/k make you more precise in a fps, but I don't see that as a plus. All it means is that everyone's getting more easy headshots, dieing more quickly and it becomes almost completely twitch/reaction based with position, cover etc counting for less. Sometimes that needs to be compensated for by making players move faster and have more health, but either way it just becomes a different style of game.
If I want to drag "realism" into it too, it's impossible to move around a gun as fast and precisely as a mouse anyway, but that's fairly moot.
Besides, I can sit on a couch/bed/floor in any position while using a controller.
If I want to drag "realism" into it too, it's impossible to move around a gun as fast and precisely as a mouse anyway, but that's fairly moot.
Besides, I can sit on a couch/bed/floor in any position while using a controller.
Porque no los....
In all seriousness, I started out playing on consoles and then I switched over to PC. I still play both. When I got used to playing with a keyboard and mouse, I noticed that it doesn't really matter. Both play the same way, and it all goes to preference. People that claim they can't use a controller, do what you tell every controller user to do: fucking practice. Listen to your own advice, don't just piss on something because it's different. It seems like every one of these controller haters were all PC gamers to start, so they never invested the effort to try and get used to a controller.
That being said, why the fuck does it matter which one is better? The same argument can be applied to every console war and every single high-horse "I'm a PC gamer so I'm automatically better than you!"
fucktippy2k2 said:
In all seriousness, I started out playing on consoles and then I switched over to PC. I still play both. When I got used to playing with a keyboard and mouse, I noticed that it doesn't really matter. Both play the same way, and it all goes to preference. People that claim they can't use a controller, do what you tell every controller user to do: fucking practice. Listen to your own advice, don't just piss on something because it's different. It seems like every one of these controller haters were all PC gamers to start, so they never invested the effort to try and get used to a controller.
That being said, why the fuck does it matter which one is better? The same argument can be applied to every console war and every single high-horse "I'm a PC gamer so I'm automatically better than you!"
If that were the case, why would you care? If you truly believe that the mouse/keyboard combo gives you such an edge over me, why would it matter to you if I wanted to use my controller in a battle to the virtual death with you?demoman_chaos said:
I played Shadowrun (a PC+360 cross-platform game that someone mentioned earlier in the thread a lot) and I went up against PC players using my 360 controller. I found the experience just fine and I could hold my own with no problem. I play better with a controller. You play better with a mouse and keyboard. Why does it HAVE to be one or the other?
This is easy.
I don't buy FPS games for consoles. Raised on source games, was tricked into buying an xbox, and then an xbox 360 for halo2 and 3, then quit consoles forever. my FPS is on the PC, while I got mario brothers on my Wii U. Let the children have their controllers. My money goes to games who make the game comfortable to play. I am not in either sony's nor microsoft's target audience. If they want my money, they will put a mouse and gamepad on the xbox 720.
I don't buy FPS games for consoles. Raised on source games, was tricked into buying an xbox, and then an xbox 360 for halo2 and 3, then quit consoles forever. my FPS is on the PC, while I got mario brothers on my Wii U. Let the children have their controllers. My money goes to games who make the game comfortable to play. I am not in either sony's nor microsoft's target audience. If they want my money, they will put a mouse and gamepad on the xbox 720.
Of course it HAS to be one or the other, this IS the internet after all.tippy2k2 said:
THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!!!!!
why the hell should I? I've played with a controller, its not "different" its "held back" like in real life trying to use a rifle while a 10kg monkey is hanging off the end and swinging around, I dont think any amount of "effort" is going to change that, why dont you take a controller and play against players with a M/K (I dont know if its possible but there should be some game about there that you can do it) and seebl4ckh4wk64 said:
Yeah, the first article is a complete joke and none of the number comparisons make any sense, or are even remotely valid since it regularly compares sales across at least two consoles to retail sales for PC. And it's not just Valve's digital sales that don't get released; digital sales in general are almost never released.AC10 said:
The second article actually does an excellent job of pointing out that all of their examination of the numbers is little more than bullshit, though I did notice at least one error in the second article where they assume that the console L4D sales are across two consoles when it was only ever released on the 360. It still doesn't matter since the numbers are close between the platforms, and digital sales wouldn't be included of course.
Let's call this thread what it is - PC vs console in disguise. For reasons that have been beaten to death already, KBM will always dominate in gameplay in an FPS scenario; analogue sticks simply don't have the combination of speed and precision you get with a mouse.
Personally? I was raised on Wolfenstein 3D, and no sane person attempted to play that with a Gravis GamePad. In fact, not needing the vertical movement meant that even keys were enough in that most of the time (and in Doom, for that matter). Of course, FPSs have come a long way since then; I remember a very brief attempt to play Quake III Arena at a mate's place using keys only and haven't really got on with the genre since, and I'm still pretty sure there hasn't been a proper FPS since Unreal Tournament (COD is a point-and-click shooting gallery). It's the dependence on KBM that's kept me away from console FPSs for so long, which in turn is what's mostly kept me away from consoles (PC master race, yo).
Personally? I was raised on Wolfenstein 3D, and no sane person attempted to play that with a Gravis GamePad. In fact, not needing the vertical movement meant that even keys were enough in that most of the time (and in Doom, for that matter). Of course, FPSs have come a long way since then; I remember a very brief attempt to play Quake III Arena at a mate's place using keys only and haven't really got on with the genre since, and I'm still pretty sure there hasn't been a proper FPS since Unreal Tournament (COD is a point-and-click shooting gallery). It's the dependence on KBM that's kept me away from console FPSs for so long, which in turn is what's mostly kept me away from consoles (PC master race, yo).
I'm firmly of the opinion that the vast majority of people will stick with the control scheme they started with: if the first FPS you played was on PC, the chances are you're stuck in your groove and won't be able to get your head round gamepad FPS-ing, and vice-versa.
What really irks me is why other people who use kb+mouse get so aggressive about it: they are two different markets that, to my knowledge, never cross each other except in one single game (Shadowrun). Some people complain about menu systems being designed for gamepads not mouse+kb, and in some cases that's true, but it's nothing to get worked up about.
Just chill
What really irks me is why other people who use kb+mouse get so aggressive about it: they are two different markets that, to my knowledge, never cross each other except in one single game (Shadowrun). Some people complain about menu systems being designed for gamepads not mouse+kb, and in some cases that's true, but it's nothing to get worked up about.
Just chill
I wish we could have both. I would love the option to use whatever you are most comfortable with. I would actually buy a console and play console games if they allowed me to use a mouse and keyboard when I wanted to. But although the console themselves can support mouse and keyboard, nearly NO console games will let you use them. For console developers it seems to be controller or nothing. I do not like controllers, I do not enjoy using them. I play my games on PC because that is the one platform that allows me to use whatever control method I like.tippy2k2 said:That's funny because I can't play a FPS on a computer because I find the keyboard/mouse setup makes them damn near unplayable
Frankly, I'm going to let the little girl in the taco commercial take over here...
Why not indeed taco girl....why not indeed.
VanQQisH said:
Have a talk with my Friend Deathbringer558 on steam. He can use a controller to rocket jump better than me using mouse and keyboard, and I'm pretty damn good at rocket jumping when my computer/internet isn't being absolute crap and lagging. As for trick stabs...I wouldn't know as I can't do those even with mouse and keyboard...I blame my crappy laptop for that not my skill at the game.
OT: its a moot point, its apples to oranges really..you cant compare them. mouse and keyboard are far more precise (though I don't have trouble using a controller without aim assist...hell I turn it off where I can
and prefer to not have it) but those that wont to use controllers will use them, those that don't will not. I see controllers as better then mouse and keyboard for platformers, Certain flight sims (ace combat series is the only one i can think of off the top of my head), 2D side scrollers, top down shooters, etc. but third person and first person shooters, mouse and keyboard are undoubtedly better for And arguably RPG's (I can argue why the mouse and keyboard arent definitively better..but i wont since I use them and prefer them in RPG's). But this thread is about First person shooters, upon which the mouse and keyboard combo is undoubtedly better then a controller.