Kinect Visionary Wants It On PCs, Phones

[Nalgas D. Lemur]

Microsoft has already announced the release of its own cellphone products called the Kin One and Kin Two that focus on social networking

It was pretty easy to miss, but not only have they announced them, they released them earlier this summer, and then about two weeks later they announced that they'd been end-of-lifed already. I think they may have realized that what they were capable of would've been neat a couple years ago, but it's a bit underwhelming now after the project got delayed something like three years before seeing an actual release. Why they bothered with the release in the first place instead of just folding the still-relevant parts into Windows Phone 7, though, I can't explain.

 

[Tom Goldman]

Microsoft has already announced the release of its own cellphone products called the Kin One and Kin Two that focus on social networking

It was pretty easy to miss, but not only have they announced them, they released them earlier this summer, and then about two weeks later they announced that they'd been end-of-lifed already. I think they may have realized that what they were capable of would've been neat a couple years ago, but it's a bit underwhelming now after the project got delayed something like three years before seeing an actual release. Why they bothered with the release in the first place instead of just folding the still-relevant parts into Windows Phone 7, though, I can't explain.

Ah, I did miss that, thanks.

 

[cool8man]

Just leave it alone...just, dont do it. We alreadty will have to suffer with it on 360, but also on my phone >< No!

You have to suffer with it on 360? I had no idea Microsoft was forcing you to buy Kinect.

This is not the Wii, they didn't get rid of the classic controller.

It would be nice if it worked before you slap it on other things Mr.Tsunoda

But it does work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfsGy0gRR4M&feature=PlayList&p=31EA0CA37F564A5E&index=0&playnext=1

That is exactly the type of control I want in my living room. It's incredible. I want to see Kinect-like tech in every piece of electronics (TV, cable box, DVD player, thermostats, alarm clocks, garage doors, projectors). Microsoft's "3-screen" vision is too limited. They also only seem focused on consumer products and not commercial applications.

 

[mad825]

Just leave

It would be nice if it worked before you slap it on other things Mr.Tsunoda

But it does work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfsGy0gRR4M&feature=PlayList&p=31EA0CA37F564A5E&index=0&playnext=1

That is exactly the type of control I want in my living room. It's incredible. I want to see Kinect-like tech in every piece of electronics (TV, cable box, DVD player, thermostats, alarm clocks, garage doors, projectors). Microsoft's "3-screen" vision is too limited. They also only seem focused on consumer products and not commercial applications.

keep in mind that the real problems don't appear until it becomes available on the open market, the lag that comes with Kinect is rather bad.

voice (speech) recognition on itself is a far more valuable technology without the computer ever needing any visual aid.
also people are lazy not health fanatics who keep on their feet to burn that extra 1 calorie

 

[cool8man]

keep in mind that the real problems don't appear until it becomes available on the open market, the lag that comes with Kinect is rather bad.

voice (speech) recognition on itself is a far more valuable technology without the computer ever needing any visual aid.
also people are lazy not health fanatics who keep on their feet to burn that extra 1 calorie

The lag is really bad for what? Playing Street Fighter? Yeah. It's fine for navigating menus and the Kinect games that are being designed for it. I wouldn't want to play Pac-man with Kinect, but for things like Kinect Sports the lag is not a problem at all. Also lag varies from game to game which means it comes down to developer talent. If you look at Kinect Adventures (1st game by a brand new developer) the lag is much more noticeable than in other Kinect games made by more experienced developers like Rare, Ubisoft, and Sega.

Here's what Gamespot had to say after playing Kinect Joy Ride at Gamescom [http://gamescom.gamespot.com/story/6273653/kinect-joy-ride-hands-on/?tag=newsfeatures%3Btitle%3B1]:

"It may look a little strange, but Kinect picks up on your movements with surprising accuracy."

"To turn, we had to tilt our hands, as if turning a steering wheel. It was a little difficult to get used to at first, particularly as the controls were very sensitive, resulting in one or two spectacular crashes into the side of the track. However, once we got used to the sensitivity, we were able to steer our car with little difficulty. Kinect was surprisingly responsive, with even subtle movements translating to the track."

"Though it initially took some time to adjust to the motion controls, we found Joy Ride to be a lot of fun."

That doesn't sound laggy or imprecise to me. Sounds like Kinect will work fine for racing games and that most people will be shocked at how well Kinect controls.




"also people are lazy not health fanatics who keep on their feet to burn that extra 1 calorie"

I disagree that all people or even most people are like what you describe, but this discussion has nothing to do with whether the technology works or not.

"voice (speech) recognition on itself is a far more valuable technology without the computer ever needing any visual aid."

Disagree again. Pretty nice to be able to have electronics set your preferences and load your profile just by seeing your face (visual). In multi-user environments like a family or office or public terminal visual recognition is extremely useful. As a lazy person I can say that just speaking is sometimes more effort than I am willing to exert; I'd gladly just move a hand to select what I want. There are also times when you don't want to annoy the people around you with frequent voice commands or reveal personal information.

 

[SelectivelyEvil13]

Well I hope Kinect and its desire to become a virulent plague upon PCs and phones can register this...
*raises middle finger*
And I have another for that kinect-animal; it is creeping me out!

Seriously though, I can only seem some limited use in menus and the like, but what about more precise actions? I can't even begin to imagine how frustrating trying to click between a letter and a period would be on Word or anything rather precise. Touchscreens are sometimes a little finicky as it stands. Either way, how is clicking a mouse or hitting a button all that difficult for the standard user? What happened to trying not to reinvent the wheel?

 

[droppingpenny]

It would be nice if it worked before you slap it on other things Mr.Tsunoda

But it does work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfsGy0gRR4M&feature=PlayList&p=31EA0CA37F564A5E&index=0&playnext=1

That is exactly the type of control I want in my living room. It's incredible. I want to see Kinect-like tech in every piece of electronics (TV, cable box, DVD player, thermostats, alarm clocks, garage doors, projectors). Microsoft's "3-screen" vision is too limited. They also only seem focused on consumer products and not commercial applications.

It doesn't, I have played it multiple times at the GamesCom 2010 and it only works on eyetoy style games properly. Move doesn't work properly as well.

Kinect
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwwU8G7MxCg

Move
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFOJcY5r_ds

Update on both
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFOJcY5r_ds

If you still think these things work properly you need to check your eyes and ears.

 

[cool8man]

Seriously though, I can only seem some limited use in menus and the like, but what about more precise actions? I can't even begin to imagine how frustrating trying to click between a letter and a period would be on Word or anything rather precise. Touchscreens are sometimes a little finicky as it stands. Either way, how is clicking a mouse or hitting a button all that difficult for the standard user? What happened to trying not to reinvent the wheel?

You're right that clicking on a virtual keyboard would be a terrible interface. But this technology is capable of understanding sign language - if not now then in the future. You could probably input words and sentences into a computer far faster with sign language than with any keyboard ever made. We teach kids how to type on QWERTY in school now, maybe in the future you will be taught how to sign in school.

 

[cool8man]

It doesn't, I have played it multiple times at the GamesCom 2010 and it only works on eyetoy style games properly. Move doesn't work properly as well.

Kinect
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwwU8G7MxCg

Move
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFOJcY5r_ds

If you still think these things work properly you need to check your eyes and ears.

You didn't give any examples at all of how it didn't work right.

Your complaint about skiing was that it was too much like actual skiing (bending knees). I thought that was pretty laughable. You do realize that there are millions of people all over the world who love skiing and would think this game was not too much effort for them? My impressions of your rant indicated more your own fitness problems than problems with the technology itself. It would be one thing if you had said the game was glitching and not reading your movements properly or even reading them too slowly. You just basically said you weren't in good enough shape to play the skiing game. (Also sounds like you weren't playing it right since you are supposed to stand up straight to do jumps)

Maybe you're not the target audience for any kind of athletic activity, that doesn't mean there isn't a bigger audience for these types of games. Look at all the fitness games on Wii which are selling millions of units. The potential audience for these types of sports and fitness games are bigger than things like Halo and Grand Theft Auto.

 

[SelectivelyEvil13]

Seriously though, I can only seem some limited use in menus and the like, but what about more precise actions? I can't even begin to imagine how frustrating trying to click between a letter and a period would be on Word or anything rather precise. Touchscreens are sometimes a little finicky as it stands. Either way, how is clicking a mouse or hitting a button all that difficult for the standard user? What happened to trying not to reinvent the wheel?

You're right that clicking on a virtual keyboard would be a terrible interface. But this technology is capable of understanding sign language - if not now then in the future. You could probably input words and sentences into a computer far faster with sign language than with any keyboard ever made. We teach kids how to type on QWERTY in school now, maybe in the future you will be taught how to sign in school.

Sign language was the most feasible use for the computer I would imagine, and indeed it has the potential for aiding in word processing and similar computer tasks. I am curious how the more complex interactions involved in conjunction with the word/language input would be facilitated so as not to disrupt the flow from motion control to a device such as a mouse or touchscreen.

 

[mad825]

The lag is really bad for what? Playing Street Fighter? Yeah. It's fine for navigating menus and the Kinect games that are being designed for it. I wouldn't want to play Pac-man with Kinect, but for things like Kinect Sports the lag is not a problem at all. Also lag varies from game to game which means it comes down to developer talent. If you look at Kinect Adventures (1st game by a brand new developer) the lag is much more noticeable than in other Kinect games made by more experienced developers like Rare, Ubisoft, and Sega.

no, you are so wrong on many levels.
Although the level of lag may be a developer factor but it's an initial flaw in the technology that is being used due to the amount of obscurities (low camera resolution ect).
the time it takes for the software to identify your actions and the CPU to process the information reflects quite clearly like in voice (speech) recognition.

"also people are lazy not health fanatics who keep on their feet to burn that extra 1 calorie"

I disagree that all people or even most people are like what you describe, but this discussion has nothing to do with whether the technology works or not.

I never said all people, but the majority of people are lazy but yea, it was off-topic ^.^

"voice (speech) recognition on itself is a far more valuable technology without the computer ever needing any visual aid."

Disagree again. Pretty nice to be able to have electronics set your preferences and load your profile just by seeing your face (visual). In multi-user environments like a family or office or public terminal visual recognition is extremely useful. As a lazy person I can say that just speaking is sometimes more effort than I am willing to exert; I'd gladly just move a hand to select what I want. There are also times when you don't want to annoy the people around you with frequent voice commands.

so a gimmick then? Touch-screen tech gladly covers what you are after and far more accurately, with greater precision and better response times and you are after something lesser!?!? something that is far more flawed and requires more hardware resources.
the Xbox 360's is going to have it's (CPU) resources debunked by 10-15% because of Kinect meaning which it will degrade the games (for hardcore gamers) in the future just because of something that seems "better" to use.

 

[droppingpenny]

You didn't give any examples at all of how it didn't work right.

Your complaint about skiing was that it was too much like actual skiing. I thought that was pretty laughable. You do realize that there are millions of people all over the world who love skiing and would think this game was not too much effort for them? My impressions of your rant indicated more your own fitness problems than problems with the technology itself. It would be one thing if you had said the game was glitching and not reading your movements properly or even reading them too slowly. You just basically said you weren't in good enough shape to play the skiing game. (Also sounds like you weren't playing it right since you are supposed to stand up straight to do jumps)

Maybe you're not the target audience for any kind of athletic activity, that doesn't mean there isn't a bigger audience for these types of games. Look at all the fitness games on Wii which are selling millions of units. The potential audience for these types of sports and fitness games are bigger than things like Halo and Grand Theft Auto.

I didn't complain for skiing being like actual skiing (though actual skiing is certainly more fun) I complained about it not working properly AND being unnecessarily exausting, it did what it wanted to do, not what I told it to do, and you had to duck very low in order to make anything happen on screen, this is what it means when it doesn't work. There is no hidden meaning. It is not even a fitness game, so why do you even compare it to the Fitness games on the Wii? O_O
But since you opened this can of worms: Wii's fitness games ACTUALLY WORK!
I played more games with Kinect than this I tried Your Shape and a different sports game, it only worked in Your Shape, and in all honesty this game could have been a port of an Eye Toy game.
I was there, I tried it, it didn't work. No matter how you try you won't find a stronger argument than this one.

 

[cool8man]

I didn't complain for skiing being like actual skiing (though actual skiing is certainly more fun) I complained about it not working properly it did what it wanted to do, not what I told it to do, this is what it means when it doesn't work. There is no hidden meaning. It is not even a fitness game, so why do you even compare it to the Fitness games on the Wii? O_O
I played more games with Kinect than this I tried Your Shape and a different sports game, it only worked in Your Shape, and in all honesty this game could have been a port of an Eye Toy game.
I was there, I tried it, it didn't work. No matter how you try you won't find a stronger argument than this one.

I grouped fitness and sports games because they are both athletic activities. You provided no video of you playing MotionSports so all I have to go on are the countless other videos on Youtube showing people playing skiing and it working perfectly. Also I think you were playing the skiing game wrong because I notice that people don't have to bend their knees that much it is more about bending your torso than your knees. Bending your torso does not take nearly as much effort as bending your knees.

Here is an example of how you were supposed to play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UCNpPcMsPM

IGN impressions of MotionSports at Gamescom [http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/111/1114609p1.html]:

In skiing, I got a chance to play Super G, which is essentially a high-speed downhill run through a series of gates. Maneuvering was easy: stand in front of the Kinect camera and lean left and right to shush downhill. Leaning down would increase the speed, and thrusting the arms would dig the poles into the ground for an extra boost of momentum. While this game was still a little rough around the edges with a 30 FPS framerate, after experiencing a similar set of skiing games on the Balance Board on Wii I think it was refreshing to be able to lean and maneuver with a lot more sensitivity and control using Kinect.

What you're saying about Eyetoy & Kinect being the same is wrong. You could not do Your Shape Fitness on Eyetoy. Eyetoy & PS Eye can not detect z-axis motion. The infrared depth sensors enable Kinect to see when you punch and kick forward towards the screen. This is why a game like Kung-Fu Live for PS Eye has to be a 2D game where you punch and kick to the sides.

Also you keep contradicting yourself. You say Kinect worked in Your Shape Fitness and then say the technology "didn't work." That makes absolutely no sense. You say that Move worked fine in SingStar and then say that Move doesn't work. Huh?

 

[droppingpenny]

I grouped fitness and sports games because they are both athletic activities. You provided no video of you playing MotionSports so all I have to go on are the countless other videos on Youtube showing people playing skiing and it working perfectly. Also I think you were playing the skiing game wrong because I notice that people don't have to bend their knees that much it is more about bending your torso than your knees. Bending your torso does not take nearly as much effort as bending your knees.

Here is an example of how you were supposed to play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UCNpPcMsPM

Your so called example is a perfect example of the game not working, because, they guy in the backgrounds constantly says that the guy playing is very bad at this game, though he plays like the game is intended to be played.

Here is btw. me playing Kinect: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMWL1uhDduk
Believe me, if the track had more curves I probably wouldn't be able to finish the track. At least pushing forward worked. The guy before me couldn't even get through the select screen. I guess Kinect is so advanced it chooses the player it wants to play with. ^^

 

[cool8man]

Your so called example is a perfect example of the game not working, because, they guy in the backgrounds constantly says that the guy playing is very bad at this game, though he plays like the game is intended to be played.

Here is btw. me playing Kinect: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMWL1uhDduk
Believe me, if the track had more curves I probably wouldn't be able to finish the track. At least pushing forward worked. The guy before me couldn't even get through the select screen. I guess Kinect is so advanced it chooses the player it wants to play with. ^^

The guy I posted was doing badly because he was not using his poles to accelerate at all.

I find it interesting that you chose not to post the actual video of you playing the game initially because it does not look bad. Also what's your reaction to seeing other people play the game and having such good results like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDc2KtIn420


As far as the select screen. Ubisoft Italy says that the menus and select screens are all just placeholder right now, so I wouldn't judge that stuff. The game is only 60% complete.

 

[droppingpenny]

Your so called example is a perfect example of the game not working, because, they guy in the backgrounds constantly says that the guy playing is very bad at this game, though he plays like the game is intended to be played.

Here is btw. me playing Kinect: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMWL1uhDduk
Believe me, if the track had more curves I probably wouldn't be able to finish the track. At least pushing forward worked. The guy before me couldn't even get through the select screen. I guess Kinect is so advanced it chooses the player it wants to play with. ^^

The guy I posted was doing badly because he was not using his poles to accelerate at all.

I find it interesting that you chose not to post the actual video of you playing the game because it does not look bad. Also what's your reaction to seeing other people play the game and having such good results like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDc2KtIn420

What should I say? This guys Kinect seems to work, but in the moment I played it multiple times, it didn't work, so I just suppose Kinect works by chance.
As for the Video, I assumed you were smart enough to look into my youtube channel, if I wanted to hide the Video, I wouldn't have posted it at all.

 

[Varanfan9]

I love how no one got this excited when the eye toy came out. But I really doubt this is going to work. Again the eye toy didn't become super popular and didn't become a house hold brand so I don't see how kinect will. So I doubt tech guys will even consider using it on PCs and phones seriously.

 

[cool8man]

I love how no one got this excited when the eye toy came out. But I really doubt this is going to work. Again the eye toy didn't become super popular and didn't become a house hold brand so I don't see how kinect will. So I doubt tech guys will even consider using it on PCs and phones seriously.

Eyetoy was just an RGB webcam. It could barely see you without a spotlight. And when it did see you it was limited to 2D motion (left and right). But even Eyetoy as terrible and low tech as it was, sold 11 million units.

What should I say? This guys Kinect seems to work, but in the moment I played it multiple times, it didn't work, so I just suppose Kinect works by chance.
As for the Video, I assumed you were smart enough to look into my youtube channel, if I wanted to hide the Video, I wouldn't have posted it at all.

Just seems odd to post a video of you talking about the game rather than you actually playing the game. It didn't seem broken from the video you showed of you playing it. The fact that you didn't master the game on your first try suggests the game might actually have some depth and present some challenge.

I'll agree with you that there has been some inconsistency with people's results. Impressions range from it completely broke when I tried it to it was the most amazing thing I've ever played in my life. It's new technology running pre-release software, so it's not going to work perfectly in every single demo. We're in the early days and this Kinect technology is going to have a long life and improve drastically over time through software updates and eventually a more powerful Xbox.

Anyone wishing Kinect and motion control is going to go away is set to be very disappointed. Kinect is more important to Microsoft than Xbox Live.

 

[droppingpenny]

Eyetoy was just an RGB webcam. It could barely see you without a spotlight. And when it did see you it was limited to 2D motion (left and right). But even Eyetoy as terrible and low tech as it was, sold 11 million units.

Oddly enough, Kinect is just a 3D cam with a mic, this is of course so different from the 7 years old Eyetoy.

 

[cool8man]

Eyetoy was just an RGB webcam. It could barely see you without a spotlight. And when it did see you it was limited to 2D motion (left and right). But even Eyetoy as terrible and low tech as it was, sold 11 million units.

Oddly enough, Kinect is just a 3D cam with a mic, this is of course so different from the 7 years old Eyetoy.

I don't know if you're just being sarcastic, because an infrared 3D camera for home use is a pretty big deal. There's never been a 3D cam released for a game console before that could see you like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip17d9jfoDM


Nor has there been this skeletal tracking software that Microsoft wrote themselves nor the voice recognition software that Microsoft has been working on for the past decade.

Skeletal tracking developer mode: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW-UEXdO2os

Saying there's no difference between Eyetoy and Kinect is like saying there is no difference between a d-pad and an analog stick.