kotor 1 vs kotor 2

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Princess Rose

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SpaceBat said:
Princess Rose said:
I honestly don't understand why KOTOR is considered such a gem. Planescape Torment is better than KOTOR (either one) in every possible way.
Yes, PS:T is better than any of the KotoR games in nearly every way possible, but PS:T is better than pretty much any other RPG ever made (IMO), so saying that the KotoR games are worse doesn't mean much. Although I do believe that the fact that PS:T doesn't even get remotely the attention the first KotoR game is getting is incredibly saddening.

Yes, I know, it's just one scene, but still. It was such a good scene, I simply can't let that comment slide :p.

NOTE: This has nothing to do with you disliking the game, obviously. People have different opinions on what makes a good RPG, so wasn't talking about that.
I went with Planescape Torment because it was older and less mentioned, as you noted. I am also of the opinion that Mass Effect is better than KOTOR. And ME2.

The gameplay in KOTOR frustrated me. A LOT. It was very stiff and clunky. It felt like the worst part of JRPGs (standing in a line and not moving) mixed with WRPG at-speed combat.

Also, none of the characters really did it for me. **shrug** KOTOR was just a very bland, mediocre for me. I'd rather be playing Planescape Torment, Mass Effect (1 or 2), Balder's Gate, Dragon Age (Origins or 2), or Final Fantasy (5-13) than I would KOTOR.

Obviously mileage may vary, but I just don't get why everyone seems to think it's so great.
 

octafish

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Vidiot said:
Between the finicky influence system and the game bugging out/crashing constantly (more than once per hour on average) I just couldn't bring myself to finish it. I hate it when games force you to micromanage your decisions based on who approves of what bloody actions. KotOR II did it, both Dragon Age games did it, and it pissed me off to no end.

(Alastair disapproves -30)
It is an important life lesson, you can't please everybody, so be true to yourself.

I'll throw my backing behind Kotor 2 and I'll agree with the poster above who said that Planescape: Torment is better in every way. There are very few RPGs that can stand in PS:T's company though.
 

Avatar Roku

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octafish said:
Vidiot said:
Between the finicky influence system and the game bugging out/crashing constantly (more than once per hour on average) I just couldn't bring myself to finish it. I hate it when games force you to micromanage your decisions based on who approves of what bloody actions. KotOR II did it, both Dragon Age games did it, and it pissed me off to no end.

(Alastair disapproves -30)
It is an important life lesson, you can't please everybody, so be true to yourself.

I'll throw my backing behind Kotor 2 and I'll agree with the poster above who said that Planescape: Torment is better in every way. There are very few RPGs that can stand in PS:T's company though.
I know what you mean. I mean, I've heard KotOR 2 called "Planescape: Torment 2", and that is high praise.
 

SpaceBat

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Princess Rose said:
I went with Planescape Torment because it was older and less mentioned, as you noted.
Yeah, it really is a shame.

Princess Rose said:
I am also of the opinion that Mass Effect is better than KOTOR. And ME2.
You won't see me arguing with you on that matter. I too enjoy ME more than the latter two, mainly because I find the characters to be more real and enjoyable and enjoy a new and well worked out universe more than a universe that has been milked to death already.

Princess Rose said:
The gameplay in KOTOR frustrated me. A LOT. It was very stiff and clunky. It felt like the worst part of JRPGs (standing in a line and not moving) mixed with WRPG at-speed combat.
Yes, definitely. Gameplay isn't the strongest part of either games. Aside from what you mentioned, both are buggy and easy to break (meaning you get overpowered easily and breeze through the game). Although this isn't what most people praise.

Princess Rose said:
Also, none of the characters really did it for me. **shrug** KOTOR was just a very bland, mediocre for me.
Agreed with this also, but only if you're talking about the first KotoR. The first Kotor's plot was as cliche, bland, black-and-white and mediocre as it gets, with the only redeeming factor being the well-done twist. The characters, aside from Jolee Bindo, Bastilla and HK-47 all felt somewhat shallow and bland to me as well (Although I could say the same about most ME characters as well, but whatever).

However, I noticed that you didn't mention the second game in your post. The reason why people like me praise the second and often bash the story of the first, is because it breaks loose from the average star wars space opera and actually has a really intriguing plot and very interesting characters. It is nothing like the first game, as in it's actually really good. The only reason most people ignore the second game or didn't like it, is because it's incomplete (something that the restoration mod fixes) or just really buggy due to it being obsidian's work.

I can see why you dislike the series, because I agree with you on your comment about the first game, but if you haven't played the second, I would still recommend it as long as it's patched and modded correctly. Sure, this does mean that the game alone is not good due to it needing so much fixing, but you'd still be missing out on something incredible by denying yourself this game IMO.

Let me put it this way, Obsidian is in a way the successor of BlackIsle studio's and you know what that means (Planescape, Fallout 2 and more). So yeah...

Princess Rose said:
I'd rather be playing Planescape Torment, Mass Effect (1 or 2), Balder's Gate than I would KOTOR
Agreed completely.

Princess Rose said:
Dragon Age (Origins or 2)
I eh...hmm...nah. Gonna have to disagree with DA2. I'm not in the hate bandwagon, but I'd still prefer KotoR over it.

Princess Rose said:
Final Fantasy 13
....
Seriously, what the hell is up with that red sniper dot on Drago's neck?
Anyway, that game had to be the biggest turd Square Enix has ever pooped out and they've pooped out a lot of smelly turds in their lifetime. A shame that a much, MUCH better RPG named Lost Odyssey is barely known to most games while that piece of shit gets all the attention.
So I couldn't disagree with you more on that one. I'd rather try and finish any Animal Crossing game than touching that game again.
 

ryanthemadman

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Irridium said:
I love Kotor 2's story. I love how it actually explains
Your character can't feel the force. Instead you used the force through everyone around you. This is why you are able to form such strong force bonds with people, and why it makes it so easy for others to follow you and do things they normally wouldn't do(common RPG trope, this is the only game where it makes a lick of sense). It also explains how your powers return. It is also why you must face Nihilus. Nihilus feeds off of the force, but you have no trace of the force in you, so he can't feed on you. That makes you the best choice to fight him.

It also explains why Kreia always hounds you for making plain good/evil choices. You can completely turn away from the force, ignore the force, yet you keep choosing to submit to it. This drives her crazy, and as I said explains why she always hounds you.

It also explains why you're so dear to Kreia. Through you, she can kill the force, so it can no longer hold influence over her, or anyone's life, ever again.
i honestly didn't pick up on that the 3x i've played through it o_O i got the part about no force, but it didnt make senseand neither did anything else i was doing lolxD
i really liked both of them, but kotor had better gameplay than 2, it just felt more natural
 

DEAD34345

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Avatar Roku said:
Alright, you really don't remember much, but I'll try to give you the Spark Notes version of the character motivations and such:
The Exile (who is canonically female, so I will refer to her as such) does know a lot of things you do not, however, which is one of the reasons the story is so praised; this game managed to give us a PC who HAS a past that is not explained by cutscenes and flashbacks (save one), but rather we piece it together from her interactions with others.

In addition to that, the game is REALLY about the Mandalorian Wars, which took place 10 years earlier, and again, it manages to be about that without flashbacks.

Anyway, here's the Exile's backstory, as pieced together through the game: she was a young Jedi when the Mandalorian Wars started, and she decided (for reasons that the player chooses in the present day when she talks about it, that's what I meant by being about 10 years ago without flashbacks) to defy the Council and join Revan to fight against the Mandalorians. Eventually, she became a General because of her ability to inspire her underlings (which will be VERY important later).

Anyway, because of the horrors of the last battle of the war, Malachor V, and because she lost her connection to the Force (and, it is implied, because Revan manipulated her into doing so), the Exile was the only Jedi to return to the Council to face judgement. They decided to exile her, hence her name.

She wandered around the galaxy, missing the events of the first game entirely, until eventually (and we aren't really told why), the Exile decides to return to civilization, and was going to Telos aboard the Republic ship Harbinger when certain events happened which end with the Exile being on Peragus, the first level of the game. I won't go into too much detail, but basically: Sith want the Exile dead, the Exchange wants to capture her, and Kreia wants the Exile alive for her own reasons...

Now is probably a good time to discuss what we find out when we find the Jedi Masters (assuming we do it the Light Side way and do not kill them). We're told that the Exile always created Force Bonds with others, unintentionally. These bonds were VERY strong (hence the fact that she could feel Kreia's pain when her hand was cut off) and were created VERY quickly. While she was a General, she created thousands of these bonds. And then, at Malachor V, all those bonds were violently cut off at the same time. So she had to cut herself off from the force or she would have died. This somehow damaged the Force itself; the Exile became a hole, a "wound" in the force, but she didn't stop creating those bonds. In fact, the bonding got even stronger, The Exile basically became a Force black hole; she created those bonds and used the Force through others.

Now for Kreia's motivations. Kreia hates the Jedi Council, but she does not want them dead. Basically, Kreia had some interesting beliefs that the Jedi did not share. She believed, among other things, in moral relativism, and disliked both the pure light side and the pure dark side. She preached balance, essentially (She also hated the Force itself, but more on that later). However, every student she ever had (including, it is revealed, Revan) turned to the Dark Side, and eventually she was shunned by the Council. She decided she wanted revenge. Not, in a refreshing change of pace, by killing them, but rather by showing them how wrong they were. So, she finds the Exile (who is dead to the force, which interests her for other reasons) and decides to train her. She also tells The Exile one, simple lie: The Council is the reason you were cut off from the Force. She did this so the Exile would find the Council members and get them all to meet up, which is exactly what happens if you are light side.

When you are light side, you meet the council. This should be Kreia's moment of triumph, but the Council was blind. You know what, I'm gonna quote a certain LP [http://lparchive.org/Knights-of-the-Old-Republic-II/] here. This guy explains it really well:
"Kreia gathered the Jedi Masters here for a purpose: revenge. But for her, revenge didn?t mean killing them. If the Exile had gone Dark Side and fought each of the Jedi Masters, Kreia would have berated him for being such a murderous idiot and not learning anything from her.

Kreia was cast out of the Jedi Order for her beliefs. The council disagreed with her teachings, and the fact that most of her students ended up going all evil and whatnot didn?t exactly help her case. All this time in exile, she schemed to find a way to get back at them, to show them the error of their ways. For her, victory would have been the Jedi Council admitting they were wrong.

She never intended to kill them, since it would have been a hollow victory that way. But they were stubborn idiots and they forced her to act. That?s why she sounds so regretful here."

That was Kreia's motivation for most of the game. After the Council dies, she sort of BSODs and something...different happens.

Throughout the entire game, there had been an undercurrent in the dialogue with Kreia: she was all for everyone's freedom to choose. And yet, there exists the Force, which controls everything and seems to have a will of it's own. Kreia HATES this idea, that there can be this omniscient force whose will supersedes all others. That was the other reason Kreia sought out the Exile: she was the only person in the galaxy who was completely free of the Force, and Kreia loved her for that.

Again, the LPer sums it up well:
"Star Wars has more similarities to Tolkien and high fantasy than most sci-fi franchises, and one of the most telling aspects of it is that you have destiny disguised as the Force. Everyone keeps saying the Force guides all things, trust the Force, etc. Then you you take a control-freak like Kreia who values self-determination above all else, yet who uses the Force as well, and suddenly you have this fate vs. free will dichotomy manifested within the same character."

This part is actually quite hard to explain, so I will just link [http://lparchive.org/Knights-of-the-Old-Republic-II/Update%2059/] to the page in the LP that covers this part.
That post went on for longer than I expected, and it still barely scratches the surface. I recommend you read the LP I posted in there, it really does a great job.
Huh, that was actually pretty interesting. I think I made all the wrong choices when playing that game, mainly because I hated Kreia and her meddling right from the start. I'd avoid her completely where possible, and I'm pretty sure the main reason I ended up being so evil in the game was just that it pissed her off. I didn't notice half of what you mentioned at all, but the story does seem to make a lot more sense now...

You've convinced me to give the game another shot, at least, which is something I never expected. Thanks.
 
Apr 28, 2008
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SpaceBat said:
Well that sucks to hear. Still, got a source article for that statement? I would like to know more about what he/she meant with that.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/101015-Alleged-Obsidian-Dev-Lashes-Out-at-Alpha-Protocol

There ya go.

SpaceBat said:
What? How is throwing away excellent writing in return for good gameplay progress? If you ask me, that's a step down from what they've usually been doing. I mean, I can fix bad gameplay with unofficial patches, but I can't fix a boring story.
Well, their main story writers were most likely working with New Vegas and its DLC's instead of Dungeon Siege 3, so that'd explain why the story was boring. But, they're done with those now. I wonder what their next game'll be.
 

AD-Stu

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At risk of sounding smug, I saw the plot twist coming in KOTOR 1 as well. It's been ages since I've played it though and most of the rest of the story is pretty much lost in a "kill the bad guy that's going to destroy the universe" ordinary space opera blur. Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that, mind you - I mean, who doesn't enjoy the chance to be righteous and save the universe? But people are right, it's not especially original or anything.

KOTOR 2 is a game I've played much more recently (thanks to the restoration mod) but I've got to admit, the bugs always got in the way of the story for me and I never really sat back to carefully consider the matter of which had the better plot. I can totally see what people are saying about how KOTOR 2's plot is deeper and more morally ambiguous and all that...

...but I'm clearly in the minority for finding Kreia's character to be irritating rather than deep and meaningful. Her response to everything you said or did was 100% predictable: she'd find a flaw to harp on about every single time, regardless of the choice you made. As a result, I found talking to her to largely be an exercise in redundancy - I might as well have been talking to one of those irritating five year old kids that asks "why?" at the end of ever single sentence. I didn't need a whole game of it to get the point that there are upsides and downsides to every decision and that was hardly a mind-blowing revelation to begin with.

Anywho, my point: now that people mention it, KOTOR 2 definitely had a more original story, but I think KOTOR 1's less-original plot was much better executed.
 

Evill_Bob

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KoTOR 1 was better because it was actually finished. Too many bugs remained in the rushed sequel because Bioware barely had six months to make it. It had all the makings of a much better game but if given time.
 

SpaceBat

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Irridium said:
There ya go.
Thank you. Pretty interesting article.

SpaceBat said:
Well, their main story writers were most likely working with New Vegas and its DLC's instead of Dungeon Siege 3, so that'd explain why the story was boring. But, they're done with those now. I wonder what their next game'll be.
That still doesn't really change my opinion on the matter, though. I merely said that trading excellent writing for better gameplay doesn't really seem to me as a step in the right direction and your explanation to the reason behind this, as logical and interesting as it may be, doesn't really affect my views.

Also, seeing as they concentrated more on New Vegas's story, I wonder how that worked out, having never played FNV myself. Is the story good? Not compared to Fallout 3 of course, because that game had really weak writing.

Apparently, their next game will be a game called Wheel of Time for the PC, 360 and PS3. At least, that's what wiki tells me. It's the only game that is apparently still being developed and thus unreleased.
 
Apr 28, 2008
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SpaceBat said:
Irridium said:
There ya go.
Thank you. Pretty interesting article.

SpaceBat said:
Well, their main story writers were most likely working with New Vegas and its DLC's instead of Dungeon Siege 3, so that'd explain why the story was boring. But, they're done with those now. I wonder what their next game'll be.
That still doesn't really change my opinion on the matter, though. I merely said that trading excellent writing for better gameplay doesn't really seem to me as a step in the right direction and your explanation to the reason behind this, as logical and interesting as it may be, doesn't really affect my views.

Also, seeing as they concentrated more on New Vegas's story, I wonder how that worked out, having never played FNV myself. Is the story good? Not compared to Fallout 3 of course, because that game had really weak writing.

Apparently, their next game will be a game called Wheel of Time for the PC, 360 and PS3. At least, that's what wiki tells me. It's the only game that is apparently still being developed and thus unreleased.
Alright, fair enough.

And yes, New Vegas has excellent writing. In the DLC's especially. Though some portions could be better(like the Legion, could have been portrayed much more "grayer" than they are), it's all well written.

And I shall keep an eye out for any Wheel of Time announcements then. Though to be honest, I think I've heard that name before... can't remember where though.
 

SpaceBat

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Irridium said:
And yes, New Vegas has excellent writing. In the DLC's especially. Though some portions could be better(like the Legion, could have been portrayed much more "grayer" than they are), it's all well written.
Heh, I guess that's to be expected, seeing as it's Obsidian and all.

Irridium said:
And I shall keep an eye out for any Wheel of Time announcements then. Though to be honest, I think I've heard that name before... can't remember where though.
Apparently they're based on Robert Jordan's "Wheel of Time" novels. Haven't heard anything about the game in a very long while though. Last time it got mentioned anywhere was nearly two years ago (Feb 2010) and it was still in the concept art stage at the time.
 

Barley Seed

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I much prefer KotOR 2 to the first. The story, dialogue, characters, locations and even gameplay shit all over that of the first.
 

Davlar

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Evill_Bob said:
KoTOR 1 was better because it was actually finished. Too many bugs remained in the rushed sequel because Bioware barely had six months to make it. It had all the makings of a much better game but if given time.
Bioware didn't make the game, Obsidian did and got rushed by Lucasart to release it, which has been explained in the thread.

OT: I love the second game and recently played it again with the Restoration-mod installed and the only thing bugging me the whole game was the HK-Factory which was a nightmare to get through as all enemies was as strong as you or worse... So for those who says it's cut, install the Restoration-mod and try it again, I promise a very good story lays in wait for you.
 

TakerFoxx

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Tough call. Both were great games that I've played through about seven times apiece. KOTOR 1 had one of the best plot twists I've ever seen, and it has the advantage of being actually finished. But KOTOR 2's plot had much more depth and some pretty sweet post-modernist themes going for it. So if it were actually complete, I'd give the point to KOTOR 2. But it's not, so I'm kind of stuck on the fence.
 

Orcus The Ultimate

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Daystar Clarion said:
I really liked KotOR 2.

But KotOR 1 had one of the best plot twists of all time. Who ever saw that coming? I certainly didn't, but when you look back, it all makes perfect sense.
Exactly !!!

on my behalf i consider that both games are good, and that Obsidian, even with it's bugs, makes great games !
 

Adam28

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Persona 3 got released again as part of the FES edition with an expansion called the "Answer" which pretty much finishes off the story and answers the questions left remaining at the end of the original.

Why am I mentioning this?

Because KOTOR2 needs something like this but unfortunately it will never happen. KOTOR2 could seriously be one of the best RPGs of all time if it was just fixed and finished properly.
 

Avatar Roku

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lunncal said:
Avatar Roku said:
Alright, you really don't remember much, but I'll try to give you the Spark Notes version of the character motivations and such:
The Exile (who is canonically female, so I will refer to her as such) does know a lot of things you do not, however, which is one of the reasons the story is so praised; this game managed to give us a PC who HAS a past that is not explained by cutscenes and flashbacks (save one), but rather we piece it together from her interactions with others.

In addition to that, the game is REALLY about the Mandalorian Wars, which took place 10 years earlier, and again, it manages to be about that without flashbacks.

Anyway, here's the Exile's backstory, as pieced together through the game: she was a young Jedi when the Mandalorian Wars started, and she decided (for reasons that the player chooses in the present day when she talks about it, that's what I meant by being about 10 years ago without flashbacks) to defy the Council and join Revan to fight against the Mandalorians. Eventually, she became a General because of her ability to inspire her underlings (which will be VERY important later).

Anyway, because of the horrors of the last battle of the war, Malachor V, and because she lost her connection to the Force (and, it is implied, because Revan manipulated her into doing so), the Exile was the only Jedi to return to the Council to face judgement. They decided to exile her, hence her name.

She wandered around the galaxy, missing the events of the first game entirely, until eventually (and we aren't really told why), the Exile decides to return to civilization, and was going to Telos aboard the Republic ship Harbinger when certain events happened which end with the Exile being on Peragus, the first level of the game. I won't go into too much detail, but basically: Sith want the Exile dead, the Exchange wants to capture her, and Kreia wants the Exile alive for her own reasons...

Now is probably a good time to discuss what we find out when we find the Jedi Masters (assuming we do it the Light Side way and do not kill them). We're told that the Exile always created Force Bonds with others, unintentionally. These bonds were VERY strong (hence the fact that she could feel Kreia's pain when her hand was cut off) and were created VERY quickly. While she was a General, she created thousands of these bonds. And then, at Malachor V, all those bonds were violently cut off at the same time. So she had to cut herself off from the force or she would have died. This somehow damaged the Force itself; the Exile became a hole, a "wound" in the force, but she didn't stop creating those bonds. In fact, the bonding got even stronger, The Exile basically became a Force black hole; she created those bonds and used the Force through others.

Now for Kreia's motivations. Kreia hates the Jedi Council, but she does not want them dead. Basically, Kreia had some interesting beliefs that the Jedi did not share. She believed, among other things, in moral relativism, and disliked both the pure light side and the pure dark side. She preached balance, essentially (She also hated the Force itself, but more on that later). However, every student she ever had (including, it is revealed, Revan) turned to the Dark Side, and eventually she was shunned by the Council. She decided she wanted revenge. Not, in a refreshing change of pace, by killing them, but rather by showing them how wrong they were. So, she finds the Exile (who is dead to the force, which interests her for other reasons) and decides to train her. She also tells The Exile one, simple lie: The Council is the reason you were cut off from the Force. She did this so the Exile would find the Council members and get them all to meet up, which is exactly what happens if you are light side.

When you are light side, you meet the council. This should be Kreia's moment of triumph, but the Council was blind. You know what, I'm gonna quote a certain LP [http://lparchive.org/Knights-of-the-Old-Republic-II/] here. This guy explains it really well:
"Kreia gathered the Jedi Masters here for a purpose: revenge. But for her, revenge didn?t mean killing them. If the Exile had gone Dark Side and fought each of the Jedi Masters, Kreia would have berated him for being such a murderous idiot and not learning anything from her.

Kreia was cast out of the Jedi Order for her beliefs. The council disagreed with her teachings, and the fact that most of her students ended up going all evil and whatnot didn?t exactly help her case. All this time in exile, she schemed to find a way to get back at them, to show them the error of their ways. For her, victory would have been the Jedi Council admitting they were wrong.

She never intended to kill them, since it would have been a hollow victory that way. But they were stubborn idiots and they forced her to act. That?s why she sounds so regretful here."

That was Kreia's motivation for most of the game. After the Council dies, she sort of BSODs and something...different happens.

Throughout the entire game, there had been an undercurrent in the dialogue with Kreia: she was all for everyone's freedom to choose. And yet, there exists the Force, which controls everything and seems to have a will of it's own. Kreia HATES this idea, that there can be this omniscient force whose will supersedes all others. That was the other reason Kreia sought out the Exile: she was the only person in the galaxy who was completely free of the Force, and Kreia loved her for that.

Again, the LPer sums it up well:
"Star Wars has more similarities to Tolkien and high fantasy than most sci-fi franchises, and one of the most telling aspects of it is that you have destiny disguised as the Force. Everyone keeps saying the Force guides all things, trust the Force, etc. Then you you take a control-freak like Kreia who values self-determination above all else, yet who uses the Force as well, and suddenly you have this fate vs. free will dichotomy manifested within the same character."

This part is actually quite hard to explain, so I will just link [http://lparchive.org/Knights-of-the-Old-Republic-II/Update%2059/] to the page in the LP that covers this part.
That post went on for longer than I expected, and it still barely scratches the surface. I recommend you read the LP I posted in there, it really does a great job.
Huh, that was actually pretty interesting. I think I made all the wrong choices when playing that game, mainly because I hated Kreia and her meddling right from the start. I'd avoid her completely where possible, and I'm pretty sure the main reason I ended up being so evil in the game was just that it pissed her off. I didn't notice half of what you mentioned at all, but the story does seem to make a lot more sense now...

You've convinced me to give the game another shot, at least, which is something I never expected. Thanks.
You're welcome. I would never discourage you from playing the game itself, but I strongly recommend you read the LP I linked to above. A lot of the really interesting philosophical stuff is kinda easy to miss if you aren't paying a lot of attention, I probably only noticed about half of that stuff before I read the LP.
AD-Stu said:
At risk of sounding smug, I saw the plot twist coming in KOTOR 1 as well. It's been ages since I've played it though and most of the rest of the story is pretty much lost in a "kill the bad guy that's going to destroy the universe" ordinary space opera blur. Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that, mind you - I mean, who doesn't enjoy the chance to be righteous and save the universe? But people are right, it's not especially original or anything.

KOTOR 2 is a game I've played much more recently (thanks to the restoration mod) but I've got to admit, the bugs always got in the way of the story for me and I never really sat back to carefully consider the matter of which had the better plot. I can totally see what people are saying about how KOTOR 2's plot is deeper and more morally ambiguous and all that...

...but I'm clearly in the minority for finding Kreia's character to be irritating rather than deep and meaningful. Her response to everything you said or did was 100% predictable: she'd find a flaw to harp on about every single time, regardless of the choice you made. As a result, I found talking to her to largely be an exercise in redundancy - I might as well have been talking to one of those irritating five year old kids that asks "why?" at the end of ever single sentence. I didn't need a whole game of it to get the point that there are upsides and downsides to every decision and that was hardly a mind-blowing revelation to begin with.

Anywho, my point: now that people mention it, KOTOR 2 definitely had a more original story, but I think KOTOR 1's less-original plot was much better executed.
Kreia isn't just interesting because of the whole "there are upsides and downsides" thing, her whole arc is amazing. See my above post (quoted in the above quote) to see exactly what I mean.