kotor 1 vs kotor 2

[cdstephens]

With the restoration mod or not?

http://deadlystream.com/forum/files/file/13-tslrcm/

It fixes almost every bug in KOTOR 2 and adds almost all of the content that couldn't make it into KOTOR 2 due to an early release, such as training with Visas, raising an assassin droid army as HK-47, etc.

Without the mod, KOTOR is better simply because of polish, and because I got attached to Revan. With bugs fixed, since in KOTOR there's a better alignment system, deeper story (the story is improved upon by the fix), and more game mechanics, KOTOR 2 is superior.

Persona 3 got released again as part of the FES edition with an expansion called the "Answer" which pretty much finishes off the story and answers the questions left remaining at the end of the original.

Why am I mentioning this?

Because KOTOR2 needs something like this but unfortunately it will never happen. KOTOR2 could seriously be one of the best RPGs of all time if it was just fixed and finished properly.

See the link above. If you mean a finish the story about the True Sith Kreia was talking about and where Revan went, then play the Old Republic and read the Revan book coming out this year.

 

[cdstephens]

Edit: Double post, sorry. Don't mind me.

 

[AlternatePFG]

When using the Restoration Mod, I think KOTOR 2 is the better game, period. Without it, KOTOR 1 is a bit more polished and much less buggy, but even then I can't decide which is better.

 

[00slash00]

i thought both games were shit.

kotor 1 because the combat was boring, the story was predictable, and the characters were kinda bland to me (though i only ever used the jedi)

kotor 2 because...well i got 2 hours in before it was just to buggy to even play

 

[cdstephens]

On a side note, something that irks me is that the Exile in Star Wars canon is much less important than Revan, despite them being on par with each other, and both of them saving the Republic. The Exile can even instantly learn an opponent's or teacher's moves, *and* survived a complete disconnect from the Force. To me, that seems more impressive, everyone talks about Revan....sigh....

 

[FaceFaceFace]

Thats debatable. KOTOR 2's story is unfinished unless you mod it, and KOTOR 1's story is far superior.

Ha! Apart from the plot-twist, the original KOTOR's story is your standard Good vs Evil Star Wars space opera.

KOTOR II's story wasn't that unfinished. More importantly, it was an incredible deconstruction of both the Star Wars mythos and RPG tropes, and had some of the deepest, most morally ambiguous characters in any Star Wars story.

You may like KOTOR's campy story over KOTOR II's brooding tale, and that's fine. But one is significantly less hackneyed and cliched than the other, and it's not the original.

Exactly what I was going to say. Take out the plot twist and what was unique about the original's plot? Nothing at all. KOTOR 2's deconstruction of pretty much everything, it's plot that for once wasn't about some grand war for the fate of the galaxy but a subtle series of events only a few end up knowing about despite their importance, and the great characters (especially Kreia) made it way better, imo, than the original, even in its unfinished state.

Gameplay-wise is a bit more mixed. More ability variety, customization of practically every weapon rather than just lightsabers and a handful of select guns, and a higher level cap were all awesome, but their were some general design disbalances. The Stun/Destroy Droid powers, for instance, in the original worked because there were droid enemies in almost every area and situation, while the sequel had them at very staggered appearances and nowhere in the in-game, making the abilities a waste. Not to mention the major disbalances. I had a double-bladed saber wielding Sith Marauder who could kill every end-game boss with a single flurry attack.

that beginning level in kotor 2 was freaking terrible, though. i had so much trouble getting through that part, but the rest of the game was great. either way, kotor 1 was better.

I loved the intro to KOTOR II. Definitely better than the generic under-siege spaceship of the original. It had a totally random space-horror vibe which I thought was awesome.

Note: I love the original KOTOR and its plot and characters. I just prefer almost everything about the sequel.

 

[Xangba]

If I could just say my piece, both are excellent (well KotOR 2 after the restoration mod that is). Bioware, to me, can effectively pull off using a classic cliche story, and to be honest it's classic for a reason. It's the mark of a good story if it's still found interesting even if done before. With KotOR 2 Obsidian was the developer, and if I recall recommended by Bioware. Obsidian is an excellent developer, but to me at least they keep being given the short end of the stick with time constraints. They aren't really big enough to push for more time to finish the game, so whoever is in charge calls the shots. Unfortunately this causes buggy releases, but it's clear to me at least the talent is there. Hopefully Obsidian can become a pre-EA Bioware. Anyway once again, both are great, plain and simple.

 

[Avatar Roku]

On a side note, something that irks me is that the Exile in Star Wars canon is much less important than Revan, despite them being on par with each other, and both of them saving the Republic. The Exile can even instantly learn an opponent's or teacher's moves, *and* survived a complete disconnect from the Force. To me, that seems more impressive, everyone talks about Revan....sigh....

Well, it's probably because KotOR 2 was really mostly an inward journey for the Exile. True, she did save the galaxy from the Triumvirate, but how many even knew the Triumvirate existed?

 

[Avatar Roku]

On a side note, something that irks me is that the Exile in Star Wars canon is much less important than Revan, despite them being on par with each other, and both of them saving the Republic. The Exile can even instantly learn an opponent's or teacher's moves, *and* survived a complete disconnect from the Force. To me, that seems more impressive, everyone talks about Revan....sigh....

What can you expect? At the risk of sounding like an elitist, Star Wars fans don't go for introspective, well-written heroes. They go for memetic badasses. The Exile is a Jedi with a bizarre relationship with the Force, who deals with morally ambiguous characters and who defeats a trinity of Sith Lords that no-one even knew were there. Revan is a Sith Lord who stomps all over the galaxy with his Sith army in a tried-and-tested Light vs Dark conflict. When you're dealing with fans who think an evil telekinetic cyborg is the scariest villain of all time, it's obvious that finesse and ambiguity are not what Star Wars fans look for.

*raises flameshield*

I think fundamentally, it comes down to the idea that KOTOR II is essentially an essay on just how stupid the whole Star Wars mythos is. Kreia in particular takes no small pleasure in pointing out all the inherent contradictions, fallacies and downright stupidity in a universe where psychics make war against each other with laser swords. The original KOTOR was a love-letter to the original trilogy in almost every way, meaning it won the hearts of a lot of jaded SW fans. KOTOR II was an extended lecture on just how stupid Star Wars fundamentally is. And if there's one thing SW fans don't like, it's being told just how silly their favourite franchise is.

Fair enough. And it's worth mentioning that, in KotOR2, they sorta retconned (not really a retcon as much as a clarification of what happened in a time period we hadn't heard much of) Revan to be less of a memetic badass and more of a sly manipulator. Granted, we heard a lot of that from Kreia and she lies constantly (and may have been trying to justify her student turning to the dark side, i.e "he didn't turn, he just tricked everyone!"), but some of it simply has to be true even independent of Kreia.

 

[Avatar Roku]

Fair enough. And it's worth mentioning that, in KotOR2, they sorta retconned (not really a retcon as much as a clarification of what happened in a time period we hadn't heard much of) Revan to be less of a memetic badass and more of a sly manipulator. Granted, we heard a lot of that from Kreia and she lies constantly (and may have been trying to justify her student turning to the dark side, i.e "he didn't turn, he just tricked everyone!"), but some of it simply has to be true even independent of Kreia.

I have to admit, I'm inclined to agree with Kreia on Revan's 'fall' for a number of reasons. Firstly, it makes him seem like a much more interesting character than your standard 'I iz teh evil Sith Lord! I iz tekking over teh galacksee!!!1!' that he came off as in the original. It worked well in the original trilogy, but when the Sith are producing nothing but evil Dark Lords who want nothing more than to rule the galaxy for no real discernible reason, it all gets a bit repetitive after a while. Xanatos Gambits FTW.

Secondly, it would mean that KOTOR II is one of the only examples I can think of where a new developer pulls a major retcon on an existing work, and actually manages to make it all work. You've got to admire the brass balls on Obsidian for that alone.

Besides, as loth as I am to give The Old Republic any kind of credit, they do seem to be going with the "Revan fell to save the galaxy from the True Sith" angle. Except according to them he fucked up. Go figure...

Oh yeah, it makes Revan much more interesting. And as I said, even if Kreia was wrong or lying, some of it simply HAS to be true. But I really, really like the idea of the whole thing being Kreia's attempt to lie to herself, after lying to the Exile the whole game.

Also, as I said, it's really not a retcon. I mean, we never really knew anything about the whole period in question; Revan forgot it, Bastila never knew, and the Council has been shown to not have the clearest mindset when it came to Revan. All that being the case, how would we know that Revan was really a manipulator?

Granted, I get that it kind of changes the spirit of the thing, but it's not the retcon it's made out to be.

 

[Suijen]

KOTOR had more memorable characters and a tighter story. Although KOTOR 2 was buggier and less complete, it had a more complex story that dealt with the force in a deeper dimension. Kreia is also one of the most interesting characters in video game history. Finally, I liked how KOTOR 2 expanded on the mythos of KOTOR, and even developed Revan's backstory even more, making Revan even more interesting.

 

[Substitute Troll]

I have this dream of one day making KotOR 3 if it hasn't been released yet. And seeing how Bioware has become EA's lapdog with TOR, it doesn't seem likely that will happen in the near future. So that's why I decided I would do it.

I had this great idea of being able to choose to play as the Exile or Revan in the third game. The other one becoming your primary companion. (possible romance?) I think both characters are equally badass. Revan is, well, FREAKING REVAN! And the Exile is a leecher who can KILL. THE. FORCE.

:O I'm tempted to include Kreia as a force ghost just because it would be awesome, even thought that would be fucking stupid. xD

 

[Continuity]

In fact the only reason why kotor 2 is hated is because its a buggy game, its story is praised.

Not by me, I found its story execrable, frankly I could of done better. Kotor 1 on the other hand has one of the best RPG plots i've seen.

Question of taste I guess (as in I have taste and you don't

 

[putowtin]

KotOR II is quite possibly my favourite game ever, yes I know it's buggy, and you really need the Mod's to make it:
1: Run better
2: Make sense

But I love the story line, I love the characters and I love the darker feel to the whole game!

 

[Payned]

Oh, and Taris was bad, but it wasn't nearly as bad as the mining asteroid level.

Wo, wo, wo. Wo. Taris was bad?? Taris was my favourite level from any game ever! But yes the mining asteroid level in KotOR 2 was pretty boring, and the fact that it was automatically compared to Taris made it so much worse for me. It's actually why I haven't been able to do a second run through of the game yet, I just can't bring myself to play through that whole level again.

In my opinion, KotOR is easily better than the sequel. I enjoyed the first game immensely (it's actually my all time favourite game), and probably in a big way because of that I found the sequel really disappointing.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

The story for KoToR 1 was impressive, I would play it again for that alone. I did enjoy the gameplay in KoToR 2, but the left me empty inside and left me with questions.

Theres a mod out for it? What kind of mod?

 

[The Madman]

Replayed Kotor 2 a few months back with the Restored Content Mod and really enjoyed it. I like that it takes a look at the Star Wars setting from a slightly different angle, questioning various ideologies of the setting and creating a cast of characters that can be defined beyond various Star Wars tropes.

But then maybe the reason I like Kotor 2 so much is because I've been getting steadily more and more sick of Star Wars in general. I'm bored with the good/evil thing, the stupid lightsabers, the kung-fu force shit. Bored. So when a game comes along that questions a lot of those things and explores a setting I used to enjoy in a new and intriguing way it's got my attention.

Just gives me that spark of interest and intrigue towards a tired setting I'd otherwise probably ignore.