Kylo Ren was the highlight of TFA SPOILERS

[Zontar]

Also why is that a major issue for people but Poe being able to fly a Tie fighter isn't? He's never flown one before yet he's an expert at flying one? Is it because he's flown other ships before? Why doesn't the same principle apply here that seems to apply to staves vs swords?

Because there's a difference between an ace fighter pilot being able to fly a different type of fighter (and still getting shot down) and someone with zero sword fighting experience (that stick of her's does not give sword fighting experience, the combat style she was shown using earlier in the movie does not translate to sword fighting) managing to win against someone who should have by all rights won even with the handicap he had been dealt.

When you add that on top of the fact she has complete mastery of the force minutes after learning about her being force sensitive, the fact she's an expert pilot and mechanic for space ships despite her background making her logically neither, and the fact the saber called to her, she comes off as a textbook Mary Sue.

 

[Jadak]

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I'd agree with this, if it weren't for one thing that you left out - Rey overpowered Kylo's force strength multiple times.

First when she resisted his mind reading, and pushed back hard enough to read Kylo's own thoughts and emotions. And again when Rey overpowered Kylo's force pull of Luke's saber.

You can argue Rey's sudden grasp of saber combat just by holding a lightsaber makes sense based on her knowing how to throw a kick or swing a bo staff... Personally, I think this makes no sense but moving on.

Your point that Ren's strength is that of the Force but Rey's strength is that of melee combat, falls flat when you take into consideration the fact that she somehow also managed to overpower Kylo's well-established Force Strength for no well established reasons of her own besides sudden god-mode.

You're right, but that part just makes the point I was trying to make worse. They had established Kylo had some kick ass force powers. And as much as Rey may have had some fighting experience to justify kicking some ass on that front, it's way too much of a stretch to be having her compete with him on that front.

Blocking mind reading? Sure, that's a fairly internal thing could be explained away with some natural force potential involving strength of will or something. They should have stopped with that and it would have still portrayed Kylo's realization that her potential might be greater than his.

Grabbing the lightsaber? Eh... Bit of a stretch given that she has literally no experience force grabbing shit, but okay, it's one object, no distractions, fine, maybe her focus and instinct (or childhood training, given some theories) are just that great.

But if shit got real and Kylo starts trying to merge the forest with her face? She has nearly no experience using the force as an on demand tool prior to the previous 30 minutes. So fine, maybe she can win a mental arm wrestle with the guy, but she would have no means of handling sudden and varied force attacks.

In any case, only point I'm trying to make on all of this is that that having an interesting conflict dynamic between Kylo and Rey would have worked much better if Kylo's earlier force usage had been presented with the same sort of amateurish instability as the rest of the character.

 

[Chris Mosher]

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Guys, that's not how fighting works. Skill with one weapon doesn't equal skill with another.

And here's Rey, beating Ren. Who despite what you believe, was trained. Fully? No. But certainly years and years and years of training and combat experience. Enough to kill all other Padawans and presumably enough to survive a fight with Luke.
And then he got more training.

I actually don't disagree with you but I saw it more as a flaw for Rey then I did for Kylo. I also don't think it effected Kylo's arc of purging himself of the lightside, which was mostly why he fascinates me. What will kill the arc for me is if Kylo is not more capable and if he be still struggling with lightside next film.
I also think that Rey's power level highlights a problem with Abrahms handling of the force. It felt like alot of the times Rey did something good it was because the force guided her. Both in flying the falcon and the fight with Kylo. She was losing in my mind up until Rey gave herself to the force and even after that the fight ended with the planet splitting open.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

The most interesting thing about Kylo Ren was how he was seemingly being seduced by the light side. I've read some EU stuff and I've seen the six previous movies but I've never seen or heard of any character who actively wanted to be a Sith but who seems to be conflicted by the light side. Yes, Darth Vader redeemed himself in the end but Kylo Ren seems like he could be a true Grey Jedi...if he knew that were an option.

Throughout the movie, it seemed like Kylo Ren always went out of his way to appease the Dark Side. He just got bad news so how would a Sith handle it? Go bat-shit and destroy some stuff. Then there were more subtle interactions that Kylo Ren seems to have gotten wrong. If someone like Finn were a Stormtrooper back during Vader's time, Vader would have force choked the deviant without a second thought. I'm really interested to see what's up with Kylo Ren in the next couple of films...It's almost a given that his pretty face is gonna get even more messed up at some point. (I kinda didn't realize he had been slashed in the face towards the end of his duel...it was tough to follow thanks to the cuts, I could have sworn he lost his head and leg...Also could have sworn Finn lost a limb of two)

 

[twistedmic]

I'm really interested to see what's up with Kylo Ren in the next couple of films...It's almost a given that his pretty face is gonna get messed up at some point.

His pretty face has already been messed up. The last hit Rey got in was a cut to his cheek, so he's going to have a nasty scar/melted patch on his face.

 

[Chris Mosher]

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Im worried she could go full Mary Sue on us.

I am hoping that Kylo is shown to have conquered his conflict and is present as being more powerful because of it. I think Rey should suffer a big defeat at Kylo's hand. Perhaps the death of Luke or Finn.

 

[Chris Mosher]

The most interesting thing about Kylo Ren was how he was seemingly being seduced by the light side. I've read some EU stuff and I've seen the six previous movies but I've never seen or heard of any character who actively wanted to be a Sith but who seems to be conflicted by the light side. Yes, Darth Vader redeemed himself in the end but Kylo Ren seems like he could be a true Grey Jedi...if he knew that were an option.

Really this why he stood out to me. People have said that Rey is the new Luke but i almost feel that Kylo is the anti Luke

 

[Zontar]

Perhaps the death of Luke or Finn.

I hope to god if it comes down to that it's Luke, because Finn is the best thing in the movie.

 

[Chris Mosher]

Perhaps the death of Luke or Finn.

I hope to god if it comes down to that it's Luke, because Finn is the best thing in the movie.

I agree. I think three new leads elevated their parts beyond what was in the script. In can't wait to see what they do next with Finn and i hope Poe gets more characterization the the best fighter pilot the rebels have.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

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Guys, that's not how fighting works. Skill with one weapon doesn't equal skill with another. This isn't Fallout, she didn't pause the movie to level up her Melee skills to 75 and unlock the LightSaber Specialist perk.
She has no idea how to hold her hands, her feet, her shoulders, how to move, strike. Nothing. She had never held a lightsaber before, she had only barely touched one. And had literally never used the force before.

Keep in mind Luke was some sort of prodigy and even with the help of a Master like Obi Wan Luke couldn't beat a single training droid for the first movie. And it took to the 2nd movie to be able to use his powers.

And here's Rey, beating Ren. Who despite what you believe, was trained. Fully? No. But certainly years and years and years of training and combat experience. Enough to kill all other Padawans and presumably enough to survive a fight with Luke.
And then he got more training.

Isn't it possible Ren just sucks at it? Like it's possible to train something and just not be good enough.

Which from what I hear about Ren, would make sense for the character. He's the Anti-Luke Skywalker, the guy that has to go to the darkside because he's not good enough for the light side. Like a classic wrestling baddie.

 

[mariosonicfan5]

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Guys, that's not how fighting works. Skill with one weapon doesn't equal skill with another. This isn't Fallout, she didn't pause the movie to level up her Melee skills to 75 and unlock the LightSaber Specialist perk.
She has no idea how to hold her hands, her feet, her shoulders, how to move, strike. Nothing. She had never held a lightsaber before, she had only barely touched one. And had literally never used the force before.

Keep in mind Luke was some sort of prodigy and even with the help of a Master like Obi Wan Luke couldn't beat a single training droid for the first movie. And it took to the 2nd movie to be able to use his powers.

And here's Rey, beating Ren. Who despite what you believe, was trained. Fully? No. But certainly years and years and years of training and combat experience. Enough to kill all other Padawans and presumably enough to survive a fight with Luke.
And then he got more training.

Well to be fair, He had been shot By a bowcaster in the stomach, and taken a few hits from Finn before he fought her so he wasn't exactly in top form during the fight anyway.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Im worried she could go full Mary Sue on us.

She already is! Calling it now, but she's Luke's daughter.

 

[OneCatch]

I'll just post this before the mods move the thread, but Ben was a really dumb character with no motivation, no development or arc, no motivation beyond being a dick, an incredibly lazy and shoe-horned connection to Han, and a dumb as fucking fuck haircut.

Also he apparently sucks as a Sith because a literal random chick who no fighting experience kicked his ass.

See I think all of this was actually pretty good, because it's the first time we've seen someone who ostensibly wants to be all darkside but is just not very good at it/whose heart isn't truly in it. Which contracts quite nicely with the usual 'good person corrupted' trope which has been used forever in the EU.

Rey has been shown to be developing force abilities, so she's hardly just some random. After all, he trivially disabled and captured Poe. And also kicked the shit out of Finn, who is military trained and conditioned, even when badly wounded.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

1. I too thought Kylo Ren was the highlight of a pretty good film. Driver killed the performance, and the differentiation from past Sith Lords (composure frequently cracking) was both refreshing and indicative of his relative youth and inexperience. He's clearly tremendously powerful...dat Skywalker blood n' all...but also extremely unrefined. His saber is meant to be illustrative of this. These are ways you can non-verbally communicate a character's ability, as opposed to having a tortured looking Hayden Christensen shout excruciating dialogue at a fixed camera.

2. Did you guys not watch the MULTIPLE scenes in which the power of Chewbacca's bowcaster was established? Does anyone even WATCH films any more, or are you texting "LOL REN SO EMO" and miss the part where it was shown he had blood pouring out his side? He's then wounded again in his fight with Finn. Rey (it's Rey, guys, not Rei) BARELY overcomes him in spite of this, and in fact was getting her ass handed to her before he took a time out to try and dark side her.

3. Every emotional character is not "emo", guys, you sound like teenagers. I know Lucas has absolutely no idea what human emotions look or sound like so it's possible you are not used to them, but really.

4. Yeah it's pretty obvious Rey is Luke's daughter. She's not marooned on some back-asswards desert planet waiting for some heretofore unseen character. Come on.

5. KYLO REN IS NOT A SITH THE SITH ARE A DIFFERENT THING NOT EVERY BAD GUY IS A SITH. Blargleargle!

 

[Kae]

Do you not mean the worst part?

I really hated him, he was pretty lame and I thought his arc was very poorly done, so he wants power badly enough to warrant killing his own father, why?

Besides that I thought he was annoying and came off as too whiny and more of a brat than an actual villain, I get that it's a set-up to make him a better villain in the following movies but I thought it was very poorly done, easily the worst character in the entire movie.

 

[Dazzle Novak]

Kylo Ren's "seduction by the light" is as thin and facile as how the seduction to the dark side is usually portrayed. Moreso, actually. I'm pretty sure you're as irredeemable and evil as need be when you're burning villages to the ground and co-commander of Space Nazis aboard some fanfic super-death base.

Seriously, what was shown that made anyone think Kylo Ren being good vs evil was 50/50? Or even 10/90? He's a petulant little shit front-to-back who, as far as we've been shown, is mad at daddy for shipping him off to Space Wizard Academy. Even the storm troopers don't like him.

I just feel that Abrams and the blockbuster side of Hollywood can't think past adolescent horseshit. We have a Superman who was a careerless hobo "finding himself" at the ripe young age of 33, a Captain Kirk with daddy-issues and problems with authority, and now a dark Jedi burning the galaxy over mood swings or something. How about a young adult with proactive aspirations?