Lack of gaiety in gaming

[Radelaide]

I haven't been taught to be offended. I am offended because the idea that you think that "Everyone is here for everyone's amusement" is a very pig-headed thing to say.

Woo, you're a feminist! Good for you. I don't "hide" my sexuality from anyone. Neither did my ex-girlfriend or any of my other lesbian/bi/gay friends.

If you wish to discuss this further, PM me. We're derailing the thread.

 

[floppylobster]

Freshly Picked: Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland

 

[DoW Lowen]

Something like homosexuality in gaming would be truly taken out of context and is bound to offend. People have a tendency to believe that being tactful about a taboo or controversial issue is to avoid it all together.

 

[VoleurdeThym]

If the people I see at work (GameStop) are any indication, the best fucking game EVAR could have a slightly gay seeming character in one scene, and that game will be immediately would only be for... Well, I hate using degrading words. You can fill in the blank here.

I don't even tell my coworkers anything about my sexuality, even though I'm fairly close with them. It'd just be allll bad.

 

[MorganL4]

Does it really matter that much what a character's sexual preference is? Gordon Freeman could quite easily be homosexual, but would it change any part of Half Life 2?

exactly its like when suddenly a about a month after the Harry Potter series is complete we get "DUMBLEDORE IS GAY" Knowing that info when you go back and re read everything it changes the story so drastically that absolutely nothing is different

 

[Wargamer]

There's a real problem with this, and I'm going to demonstrate now; find me everyone on this topic who is gay and bisexual.

How are you going to do it? Seriously, short of them telling you, you can't.

I am bisexual. I've slept with more men than women, and I hate flamboyant Gays (or "San Fran Fags" as I label them in a derogatory manner). I don't find a man attractive if we walks around in body-tight pink latex and carries a poodle around like he's Paris Dumb-Fuck Hilton. I like guys who are pretty, but NORMAL in public. Homosexuality shouldn't play a part until we get to the bedroom.

This is the challenge you have to face if you want a Gay character; make them Davith Thomas and you just piss everyone off. Make them a 'real' Gay and you won't tell the difference without making it into a Porn Game.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

All the women I know, hate the attitude you have.

What about the millions of women who directly objectify other women by watching the Swan or buying Cosmo and Vogue. Pot Kettle Black.

Anyway.... anyone remember in Bully when you could make out with a boy in the dorm??? I laughed out loud and had to show my VERY gay buddy who thought it was a scream.

 

[Necrophagist]

All the women I know, hate the attitude you have.

What about the millions of women who directly objectify other women by watching the Swan or buying Cosmo and Vogue. Pot Kettle Black.

THANK YOU. This is what I'm trying to say. People are walking around trying to pretend that if a woman flaunts her sexuality, she's being exploited. I couldn't disagree more, and threatening someone with a different point of view with violence isn't okay, buddy. It's ignorant. You may disagree with my perspective, but what makes you think it's okay to "disagree with someone - perhaps violently"?

The question here is whether it is okay for men to enjoy two women making out. What's her name took offense because she doesn't think she should be seen as an object of amusement. Fine. Don't perform, then. I have a lot of friends in the entertainment industry, many of them strippers and the like, and we both agree that the sex industry, if it is run by people with their heads in the right place, can be quite empowering for women. But, if it offends you, don't pay attention to it. You throwing a fit every time a man (or woman, yes they do it too) "objectifies you" doesn't make you immune from the process. It gives you a reason to be outraged, which is quite addictive, from what I understand. I've never seen the value in outrage myself. Guess I have better things to occupy my mind with.

 

[Radelaide]

All the women I know, hate the attitude you have.

What about the millions of women who directly objectify other women by watching the Swan or buying Cosmo and Vogue. Pot Kettle Black.

Uh, what's the swan? And I buy Cosmo. And read it for the articles. No to look at women.

]What's her name took offense...

"What's her name" has one. It's Adelaide, you pig.

 

[JediMB]

(honestly the game I'm working on right now is about a butterfly going from flower to flower, so these things aren't always issues I can face anyway)

...

Thief! I started making that game years ago!

*coughs*

Well, I never did get too far. Spent too much time working on the graphics, and eventually I tired of the whole thing. (I don't seriously think anyone's ever really heard of it, though.)

 

[MessiahOfPants]

To be honest, stereotyping isn't exactly a bad thing. Over stereotyping is. Making a guy sound and act flamboyant isn't bad. I know many guys in the gay community that are like that. That being said, not all gays act flamboyant and not all lesbians are butch. I thought in Indigo Prophecy they added a gay character nicely. I think it's only bad when you make fun of the gay/lesbian character in a hurtful way.

It depends on who you ask. I have many gay friends, all of whom would feel differently about that kind of stereotyping. If you had one gay character in a game who was very flamboyant, that creates the image that all homosexuals act in such a manner, which emphasizes (perhaps unintentionally) that homosexuals are different from everyone else. If it was a gay character that was just a regular, average guy or girl, it wouldn't add that negative connotation.

See it seems to me what you're saying is, if we have a gay character who acts straight, it's ok for them to be in the game. I may be wrong, I'm not too clear on what you're saying. When I say flamboyant, I don't mean a guy who runs around with an over acted lisp, who hits on all the male characters, and constantly says his rump needs to be filled. I mean a guy who has a slight lisp, and who may check out a few hot guy characters. There's nothing wrong with that. And those who get offended by that are being far to politically correct. There really isn't a normal, everyone's different.

I'm not saying that they should be "straight-acting," but I am saying that just because a character is homosexual doesn't mean he or she has to be a stereotype homosexual (lisp, trendy fashions, etc). I say this because stereotyping just asserts that all homosexuals act like that. The same goes for stereotyping any group.

P.S. I put "straight-acting" in quotation marks because there isn't such a thing.

I agree that people shouldn't judge a culture, sexuality, religion, etc based on a character in a video game or movie. That's just stupid. And no he doesn't have to have a lisp or do any stereotypically gay things to be considered gay. It is easier, however, to identify that he is gay. And again there's nothing wrong with gay guys being... well, gay. That's why I love going to club S4.

 

[Marrra]

Ok, I haven't read the comments on this past the first page, so sorry if this doubles what anyone's said...

How exactly do you show that someone is gay in a game outside of either a romance scene or brutal stereotyping? Fact is it's just not something easy or, in my opinion, worthwhile to flesh out. Sure, if you want the main character to be gay and have a romance sub-plot then congratulations, you've managed to work it in there, but it has to make sense. Just injecting gay people for the sake of it would be retarded.

This is why I liked what they did with Mass Effect. There was the option there for hetero or homosexual romance, though the homosexual is more designed for lesbian than gay as even though the Asari are 'both' genders, their appearance is very female. The idea would perhaps have been better worked with a lack of generous bustline on her, but it's a start. The point being - it was the player's choice. It didn't matter what the sexuality of the player was, there was something in there for them if they wanted it, and they had nobody to blame but themselves if they got something they didn't like out of it.

Also, did you notice how lesbians are far more prevalent than male homosexuality?

Yeah, that pretty much shows the double standard prevalent in society in general regarding that subject. I put it down to the fact that most guys love the thought of two girls going at it but are disgusted by the thought of two guys, whereas girls (most I've talked to about it) are ambivalent either way

 

[Necrophagist]

All the women I know, hate the attitude you have.

What about the millions of women who directly objectify other women by watching the Swan or buying Cosmo and Vogue. Pot Kettle Black.

Uh, what's the swan? And I buy Cosmo. And read it for the articles. No to look at women.

]What's her name took offense...

"What's her name" has one. It's Adelaide, you pig.

Wait, so you can call me a pig but I can't call you a cold, self-righteous, uppity snatch? Life is unfair.

 

[Necrophagist]

PS I buy Playboy for the articles AND the women. The women are gorgeous and well-paid for their work, and the writing is outstanding. It really is.

 

[mark_n_b]

I agree that people shouldn't judge a culture, sexuality, religion, etc based on a character in a video game or movie. That's just stupid. And no he doesn't have to have a lisp or do any stereotypically gay things to be considered gay. It is easier, however, to identify that he is gay. And again there's nothing wrong with gay guys being... well, gay. That's why I love going to club S4.

And this is a key point: People shouldn't judge a culture, sexuality, religion... bqased on video games / movies. But is that because given the current state of these media forms people can't judge these things.

Isn't that a problem? Shouldn't we as a cultural community (gaming culture) try to remedy that situation even if it is simply through asking for better? In all fairness there are many movies that are honest to the cultures they present (Schindler's List for instance) why can't games be taken to that level?

 

[cobra_ky]

I'm a feminist, to be honest. I believe women should own and be empowered in their sexuality. The movement to have you "hide" your sexuality is quite a misogynist one - that is to say, sex is power, and to have a woman hide her sexuality is to hide her power. See, you buy into the new age concept of feminism which argues that any exploitation of sexuality is undermining of a woman's worth - and I couldn't disagree more. The right to use one's sexuality and flaunt it as one sees fit is the ultimate exercise in power and liberation - so, my desire to see you get freaky with a girl is nothing more than you exercizing power over me. In short, you win.

You being offended at someone making a crack at wanting to see two girls make out is the result of conditioning by the patriarchy. You have been TAUGHT to be offended, so you are offended. It's time to get over our fear of sexuality and embrace it - sex is power, my friend, and it's time to use that power to change the paradigm.

Oh, and the conversation about women as sex objects is a long one. Yes, they are. As are men. Nothing, actually, is sacred, and women are sex objects, as are men. We are all vessels of sexuality, and embracing that fact allows us to explore out potential as a species. We should not fear or hate our sexuality, but love and accept it.

sure you can choose to flaunt your sexuality, but the point is you're the one choosing it
sexual liberation is such a tiny part of what feminism is really about. real empowerment is not giving a flying crap what other people think about your sexuality.

i've got news for you, buddy. you're the patriarchy, and you're trying to brainwash women into having sex for your amusement right now. why would women want power over you anyway? what makes you think you're so useful to them? how is it going to change the paradigm? subverting sexual objectification through...sex? do you not see the flaw in this plan?

hey, i love lesbian sex too. i find women performing sex acts attractive whereas men repulse me. but that doesn't mean i ignore everything else about them and act like a condescending prick about it.

EDIT: this is exactly why we need more games with realistic minority characters. SEE I WAS SECRETLY ON-TOPIC ALL ALONG

 

[Jumpman]

Most video games rely heavily on stereotypes, be they race, sexuality, or religion. its just the way the medium is right now, I dont think it will last forever.

 

[latenightapplepie]

i completely agree it's not something you should do unless it's integral to the game.

I used to see the reason in this argument and agree with it. But the more I think about it the more I find myself asking what is and what isn't "integral" to the game - If a character's sexuality is not, what about his or her gender? Race? Religion? If I don't need to know what my alien-blasting protaganist does in the bedroom, what exactly about his identity do I need to know? I'm clearly playing the devil's advocate here, but I honestly can see how the line between "integral" and not gets awfully blurry.