Lack of romance in games ignores the female audience

[Wolfram23]

I was talking with my girlfriend the other day about games. I was telling her how excited I am for some upcoming games and also discussing games I thought she might like to try that I/we own.

But she's just not interested. Why? She likes games with romances, and finds basically any and all games without that to be boring. Therefore, she absolutely loves Assassins' Creed 2, and moreso Brotherhood. She played the shit out of those games.

She also enjoyed a bit of Dragon Age, but I guess the style of the game isn't exactly her thing, and even though it has romances, they're very much "on the back burner". I mean if you think about it, the only point of BioWare romances, really, is to get that "steamy" cutscene.

So I was thinking of other games I really like, and I just can't think of any games with any sort of meaningful romance in the plot.

I think, of course, not every game needs a romance. I think boys especially can simply play a game and have fun on the mechanics alone (hence the male dominated FPS games). Please keep in mind I'm not saying girls can't like that, and I really wish my gf was one of those who can enjoy a game for the simple fun of exploration and blowing stuff up, but she's not like that. And I'm sure she's not alone, not by a long shot.

But thinking about my favorite books, they basically all have at least some sort of romance. I don't really like the cheezy stuff ("romance" novels) but I do appreciate the bond of love. I mean even Harry Potter has some romance and I guarantee a large portion of the audience would not like the series as much if it didn't have some sexual tension and the like.

So are developers completely ignoring a huge issue here? When there are romances in typical AAA games (BioWare for example) they're almost always heavy handed and shallow attempts. The nice thing of AC:B is that the romance is a main plot point, and it's very well developed. It's not the silly flirt/shower with gifts/sleep with/get different convo options that are presents in certain RPGs. Even Heavy Rain's romance was a bit sloppy, although my girlfriend did enjoy that game.

Two questions for Escapists: Can you think of any games with a good romance, ideally available on PC or PS3? And more importantly, it would be great to hear from female Escapists on if they feel like romance is important, would improve games, and whether they feel ignored.

 

[Palademon]

Generalisation is generalised.
This will be true for some, but not all.
Especially in the gaming world where women have already defied a great idea that games are just for males.

I'ts kinda pointless to play for romance if that's the only factor of a game attracting you, since that's evidence that the game itself is crap. If you want something that goes against that then the romance must be a big part of the GAMEPLAY, not just the story.

 

[Woodsey]

Whilst Brotherhood does have a rather excellent romantic sub-plot, I can't remember AC2 having any, apart from when Ezio bangs Christina at the start, so I guess what I'm saying is... what?

Also, I'd like some decent romance plot threads in games, so don't generalise. Hoping for some human-feeling characters in games isn't just for the girls (even though that's a wild generalisation too).

Anyway, if she hasn't yet, give her a copy of Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time to play.

 

[Bags159]

You can't assume that because your girlfriend wants games with romance that all girls want games with romance.

That's like assuming every male wants to play COD clones with huge muscly space marines.

 

[Eldarion]

Why is it that people assume a romance sub plot is something only girls are into?

I mean, I could list a number of games that I liked that had a very deep relationship you could get into with the NPCs, but I'm a boy so what do I know right?

Ok ignoring the sexism in your post there P), you have got to play the Persona series. I played 3 and 4, you had to get to be friends with the people you where trying to date, had to get to know them, build a relationship take them places, ect. Plus, the things you say to them matter. You could say the wrong thing and make them mad at you, that could lead to a break up or them not talking to you, then you had to make it up to them. You had to be careful to keep promises, had to balance seeing them with everything else going on. Probably the deepest system for this of any game ever.

Your right about Bioware romances being largely "talk to npc untill sex scene". Which one of the 2 cut scenes you get to watch is what most choices in their games boil down to.

 

[Avaholic03]

The problem with romance in games is you should never force players into it. There are plenty of games that offer the option of marriage or sex with NPCs. I don't know what else you could do on top of that while preserving the feeling of players making the decisions. The fact remains that most people who play games don't want a romantic sub-plot (and especially not a romantic main story line). Shoe-horning it into a game would be detrimental to the final product. I welcome a developer proving me wrong, but I doubt that would happen. And bonus points to them if they could actually make that game profitable.

 

[Wolfram23]

Generalisation is generalised.
This will be true for some, but not all.
Especially in the gaming world where women have already defied a great idea that games are just for males.

I'ts kinda pointless to play for romance if that's the only factor of a game attracting you, since that's evidence that the game itself is crap. If you want something that goes against that then the romance must be a big part of the GAMEPLAY, not just the story.

Hang on, what generalization are you referring to? If you read it through, I said quite explicitely that not all girls are like that. Yet it's a fact that most gamers are males and for most AAA titles there's more guys buying them than girls.

Also that seems a bit silly to say it's pointless to play for romance. Why is that pointless, but playing to shoot people isn't? Wouldn't playing Minecraft be rather pointless in the extreme? Who are you to say that having a specific reason to play is pointless? Games in their nature are basically pointless time wasters, aren't they?

And it's also extremely arogant and selfish to simply state that it's evidence the game itself is crap. Seriously, do you listen to yourself? Someone enjoys a game you don't like, so therefore you're right and the game sucks? Is that it? No. That's wrong.

My girlfriend was telling me about some of the games she really liked playing when she was in China (she's from Shanghai) and they are mostly Japanese games that I never knew existed, nor have I ever seen their like in the western market. But why are there so many of them in Japan? Maybe the Japanese know how to make games for everyone, not just 18yr old boys with an Xbox?

 

[loodmoney]

A non-RPG example (from the PS2) that I can think of Prince of Persia: Sands of Time.

It is strange now that you mention it, that a huge majority of all movies and books intended for a large audience have at least some love story in them (or at least a mandatory sex scene), whereas games don't.

But I guess it depends on whether the game is narrative-driven, and what kind of narrative it is. So the fact that few games feature much romance is likely due to the half-arsedness of game narratives in general, rather than any kind of catering to a male audience. It would be good if both of those problems were dealt with.

 

[firstxaidxkit]

I couldn't care less about romance in games, if it has a good story without it then it's good enough for me. And I thing mechanics are what make are break a game--that is what I play for. I have my real-life romance and that is more than enough romance that I need in my life.

That being said though, I love the Assassin's Creed games and even though the romance was integrated quite well in the plot, it could have stood without it.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Romance games?

Well...Balder's Gate has a few romance based Mods, the Final Fantasy series, GTA IV (sort of), ICO, Prince of Persia, Vampire:Bloodlines, ..the Witcher...

Ok, I'm clutching at straws now.

 

[Sehnsucht Engel]

I think most RPGs have romance stories. They're not all great, but they're there.

I really like the one spanning over Me1 and Me2 for me. I hooked up with Liara in the first game. Then she came back in the second one, but not as a part of the crew. They still kissed and seemed to love each other. Now, since there was no other real lesbian option in Me2 for my femshep, she stayed with Liara and just before they were about to go to the reaper, she looked at a picture she had of Liara on her desk. I hope they will give a great ending to that story in Me3.

 

[Wolfram23]

You can't assume that because your girlfriend wants games with romance that all girls want games with romance.

That's like assuming every male wants to play COD clones with huge muscly space marines.

"Please keep in mind I'm not saying girls can't like that, and I really wish my gf was one of those who can enjoy a game for the simple fun of exploration and blowing stuff up, but she's not like that. And I'm sure she's not alone, not by a long shot."

I didn't.

Whilst Brotherhood does have a rather excellent romantic sub-plot, I can't remember AC2 having any, apart from when Ezio bangs Christina at the start, so I guess what I'm saying is... what?

Also, I'd like some decent romance plot threads in games, so don't generalise. Hoping for some human-feeling characters in games isn't just for the girls (even though that's a wild generalisation too).

Anyway, if she hasn't yet, give her a copy of Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time to play.

You're right, in AC2 it was a very small sub plot but it also deals with other issues of love - family love.

Why is it that people assume a romance sub plot is something only girls are into?

I mean, I could list a number of games that I liked that had a very deep relationship you could get into with the NPCs, but I'm a boy so what do I know right?

Ok ignoring the sexism in your post there P), you have got to play the Persona series. I played 3 and 4, you had to get to be friends with the people you where trying to date, had to get to know them, build a relationship take them places, ect. Probably the deepest system for this of any game ever.

Your right about Bioware romances being largely "talk to npc untill sex scene". Which one of the 2 cut scenes you get to watch is what most choices in their games boil down to.

I fail to see sexism. I pointedly state that most of my favorite books have romances in them and that I appreciate it. I also like games with romance, but I have not played many at all.

I don't think I can play Persona... isn't that PS2? However we are looking forward to trying Catherine. That said, sounds like she'd really like Persona. Thanks!

 

[Palademon]

Generalisation is generalised.
This will be true for some, but not all.
Especially in the gaming world where women have already defied a great idea that games are just for males.

I'ts kinda pointless to play for romance if that's the only factor of a game attracting you, since that's evidence that the game itself is crap. If you want something that goes against that then the romance must be a big part of the GAMEPLAY, not just the story.

Hang on, what generalization are you referring to? If you read it through, I said quite explicitely that not all girls are like that. Yet it's a fact that most gamers are males and for most AAA titles there's more guys buying them than girls.

Also that seems a bit silly to say it's pointless to play for romance. Why is that pointless, but playing to shoot people isn't? Wouldn't playing Minecraft be rather pointless in the extreme? Who are you to say that having a specific reason to play is pointless? Games in their nature are basically pointless time wasters, aren't they?

And it's also extremely arogant and selfish to simply state that it's evidence the game itself is crap. Seriously, do you listen to yourself? Someone enjoys a game you don't like, so therefore you're right and the game sucks? Is that it? No. That's wrong.

My girlfriend was telling me about some of the games she really liked playing when she was in China (she's from Shanghai) and they are mostly Japanese games that I never knew existed, nor have I ever seen their like in the western market. But why are there so many of them in Japan? Maybe the Japanese know how to make games for everyone, not just 18yr old boys with an Xbox?

1. The title, and you implied that only girls would enjoy that addition.
2. Pointless to play a game only for a slight bit of romance that happens in it.
3. What game? We are speaking hypothetically of games based around romance, which would presumably be better than games that have it tacked on, a small detial shouldn't be what makes agame for someone.
4. I like the Japanese, they don't censor as much and have a wider audience of game sthat we hardly ever get due to fear of them not selling, why does that last point relate to my post?

 

[Thaluikhain]

Well...even the most stereotypical basement dweller is likely to have experienced some kind of social interaction, and can therefore tell if a game is doing it terribly wrong.

On the other hand, most have not served in the military, let alone the Powered Armour Goon Force. Games can stuff that side up, and people will be less likely to be annoyed by glaring faults.

Added to that...romances are hard for people to get right IRL, making a decent one in a game...stuff it, chest high walls are easy to understand.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Two questions for Escapists: Can you think of any games with a good romance, ideally available on PC or PS3? And more importantly, it would be great to hear from female Escapists on if they feel like romance is important, would improve games, and whether they feel ignored.

Female Escapist here to say that, Yes! romance is an important part of gaming.

I'd like to say that the "Steamy cutscene" isn't the best part of Bioware Romance. It's the flirty dialog leading UP to that scene that it my favorite part. The sex scenes have been rather disappointing lately, anyway.

Other games with romance (mostly on the PS2): Persona 3 and 4, Xenosaga 3 (and technically 1 and 2 since they set the romance in 3 up), Heavy Rain (and Indigo Prophesy, sort of), Silent Hill 2, many of the Final Fantasy games - you know, I think that's one of the reasons I love and defend JRPGs - the romantic subplots - anyway. Let me put it this way - I played through FF X-2 - TWICE - because what it lacked, it was one of the most romantic games I've ever played.

Also, if Assassins Creed 2 (and Brotherhood) have strong romantic aspects, then they both just went on my "games to buy" list. ^^ I'm still working on my play through of AC1 (got distracted from pesky assassinations by climbing on buildings - I love screwing around in that game).

And yes, I feel romance is too often ignored. You don't need to shoe-horn it in, but it makes a wonderful optional aspect to a game. For instance, I'd love to be able to romance Shaunti in Saint's Row 2 (and here's hoping for that option in SR3). ^^

 

[Wolfram23]

1. The title, and you implied that only girls would enjoy that addition.
2. Pointless to play a game only for a slight bit of romance that happens in it.
3. What game? We are speaking hypothetically of games based around romance, which would presumably be better than games that have it tacked on, a small detial shouldn't be what makes agame for someone.
4. I like the Japanese, they don't censor as much and have a wider audience of game sthat we hardly ever get due to fear of them not selling, why does that last point relate to my post?

1.The title is called an attention grabber. Ever see a magazine cover? It represents very little besides peaking one's interest.
2.Agreed, hence why she's not interested in BioWare games I think.
3.I don't know, she mentioned a game about being an up and coming makeup artist with some very unique gameplay, as well as another one where you become famous by being an actress, singer, or other things I think. In both games there's romantic plots.
4.It relates to your post because of your "the game must be crap" comment. I'm meerly suggesting that is not true when there are plenty of games that would fit into that category overseas and have an audience for them. I suppose they may or may not be crap, but that would depend who you ask.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

2. Pointless to play a game only for a slight bit of romance that happens in it.

That's, like, your opinion.

I've played games just for the romantic subplots before. I already mentioned Final Fantasy X-2. It isn't the only one, just the one with the largest contrast between unpleasant gameplay and interesting romantic plotline.

 

[Wolfram23]

Two questions for Escapists: Can you think of any games with a good romance, ideally available on PC or PS3? And more importantly, it would be great to hear from female Escapists on if they feel like romance is important, would improve games, and whether they feel ignored.

Female Escapist here to say that, Yes! romance is an important part of gaming.

I'd like to say that the "Steamy cutscene" isn't the best part of Bioware Romance. It's the flirty dialog leading UP to that scene that it my favorite part. The sex scenes have been rather disappointing lately, anyway.

Other games with romance (mostly on the PS2): Persona 3 and 4, Xenosaga 3 (and technically 1 and 2 since they set the romance in 3 up), Heavy Rain (and Indigo Prophesy, sort of), Silent Hill 2, many of the Final Fantasy games - you know, I think that's one of the reasons I love and defend JRPGs - the romantic subplots - anyway. Let me put it this way - I played through FF X-2 - TWICE - because what it lacked, it was one of the most romantic games I've ever played.

Also, if Assassins Creed 2 (and Brotherhood) have strong romantic aspects, then they both just went on my "games to buy" list. ^^ I'm still working on my play through of AC1 (got distracted from pesky assassinations by climbing on buildings - I love screwing around in that game).

And yes, I feel romance is too often ignored. You don't need to shoe-horn it in, but it makes a wonderful optional aspect to a game. For instance, I'd love to be able to romance Shaunti in Saint's Row 2 (and here's hoping for that option in SR3). ^^

Thank you for that. All these guys are replying and calling me sexist and such... I was trying not to be, and I think your post somewhat vindicates my stance that romance is important for girls - but not JUST girls! I totally enjoy a good romance plot! I just don't like the ultra cheesy like a lot of rom-com movies

Also, AC:B has the real romantic plot, AC2 though, like you say, is really fun to just run around and explore and assassinate stuff haha.

I'll have to check out FFX2, and Persona as someone else mentioned. Thanks!

 

[Palademon]

4.It relates to your post because of your "the game must be crap" comment. I'm meerly suggesting that is not true when there are plenty of games that would fit into that category overseas and have an audience for them. I suppose they may or may not be crap, but that would depend who you ask.

I meant if someone didn't have an interest in a game before they discovered the small romantic part, then they must not think of it as very highly, and therefore would be better to make games based entirely around it.

 

[Palademon]

2. Pointless to play a game only for a slight bit of romance that happens in it.

That's, like, your opinion.

I've played games just for the romantic subplots before. I already mentioned Final Fantasy X-2. It isn't the only one, just the one with the largest contrast between unpleasant gameplay and interesting romantic plotline.

Well, it sounds reasonable there since you seem to descirbe it as the only good part of the game, and therefore would be the thing people would most focus on.