Lack of romance in games ignores the female audience

[Palademon]

EDIT: Also, by my point I meant if it's only a small bit that you focus on or care about then the game as a whole can't be very good, but then again that's a massive opinion I must have that I assume is based on logic since it seems like the game must be bad if for say you only played a Bioware game purely because you heard a character from a previous game would be in it, but you hated all the other characters and how they had changed the game in that sequel, but you'd like to romace with that character again. This is probably a bad example though.

I get what you're saying. And, in the case of FF X-2, the romance pretty much WAS the plot. Which is one reason why so many people hated the crap out of it. Some of that hate was for some very... strange and often unsatisfying game play though.

But I digress. On your Bioware example, technically speaking I bought ME1 after enjoying ME2, even though I don't like gaming on PC and found the combat less interesting in ME1. Why? For the chance to romance Liara (and to meet Tali and Garrus, my romantic interests from ME2, before they were romancable). For me, that was 20 bucks well spent. ^^ Even if I had to play ME1 on its lowest graphic settings to avoid overheating my laptop.

Thank for understanding what I was saying. Up til now I just felt that all my quotes in this thread where about people chewing me out. Also, did you know how much you wouldn't like the combat in ME1 before you got it? Because combat is not often considered to be a big part of Mass Effect, and my point was also about buying a game purely for the minor romantic part, even if you knew you wouldn't like the rest, instead of say buying a game then finding out you only like the romantic part.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

I guess it can be a legitimate complaint; most games are freakishly chaste and seem to have this really big problem with intimacy in their narratives (the West especially). I have seen incredibly good love stories like Xenogears (where the entire love story is one of the driving forces of the entire plot) but there are admittedly a TON Of bad ones that fail due to over-earnest writing or trying too hard to be "gritty" and thus a sort of "romance is fer pussies" attitude.

 

[Kikyoo]

Romance eh? Well this is kind of a broad subject but I'll take a stab at it.

First and foremost the FF series is not generally very good romance stories. The "best" romance is probably in 8, but while it is a major plot point and can be emotionally gripping Final Fantasy it is FF8 and while it is a central plot the overall plot is not good. Most RPGs are not really romance focused. But the reason RPGs get thrown out there is because usually they have the best stories or at least are the most story focused.

Most of your FPS we can easily just skip over, as well as side scrollers, and in general most platformer games.

Honestly the best Idea I can come up with is from the Dating sim genera that is really popular over in Japan. Game play wise they amount to little more than a choose your own adventure book, but those can be quite stimulating if you can really get into it. Finding them is going to be something of a chore I know. BUT most of your mainstream gaming is obviously not getting your friend there, so it could be rewarding to think outside the box a little bit.

 

[anotherdamnwatanabe]

I really can't say I've played too many games with romance, and I don't think a game need romance. Edna & Harvey is a big favorite of mine and has no romance at all.

The popular adventure Gabriel Knight series is all about the romance but I thought the writing and characters were very bad. Oh, and Runaway: A Road Adventure has a good male lead who has a romance and I like that game.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

One word: Alastair. A character and romance written by a woman for the female character. I defy your girlfriend to not love it. Go forth and get Dragon Age: Origins my friend!

[small]Disclaimer: I deny any responsability for your girlfriend liking Alastair more than you.[/small]

I don't think romance is avoided too much by developers even if it's just in a 'poor Isaac Clarke and his missing girlfriend' sort of way. There tends to be a realtionship in alot of stories just becuase it's a big part of life.

 

[slippereend]

I don't think that it's the romance as much as the setting of the game and social aspects which captivate the female audience. I'm a girl and I don't like most of the shooters out there, but I liked half-life a lot. The difference between, for example, crysis and half-life, is that in crysis you don't build a relationship with any teammembers or other characters and in half-life you do.
Its the same for any POP game, Assassins creed, dragonage,mass effect and the FF series.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

If you want romance in games, there's tons of Japanese dating sims and other romance type games out there.
But in a AAA format game, its tough to put that in without disrupting the natural flow of the game itself.

 

[RabbidKuriboh]

two wordsating Sim

 

[WaderiAAA]

I haven't played Assassins Creed, but as far as I can think... No, not really. The Longest Journey had some potential for what could have been a good romance, but the story didn't go there. Then in the sequel, Dreamfall, it went there, but kinda sucked. Then you have Final Fantasy games and some other RPGs that usually have some romance in them, but they are kinda meh...

There are a few problems to integrating romance in games:
A) Hard to tell through gameplay. I mean, it is alright that everything you do is to save the princess or whatever, but if you want to make a real story out of it, it becomes more difficult. For instance, imagine how awkward a kissing scene in first person would be.
B) Hard to balance. I think if you really put your effort into a love story, then it could quickly become all-consuming and grant the game a "girl's game" sticker, thus alienating a big portion of the potential buyers.

 

[Lullabye]

Two words:
The Darkness

Don't think a girl would especially appreciate the turn that romance takes.

 

[helpup]

'nother female here, chiming in. While I do enjoy a good romance sub-plot in my entertainment, it's not needed. As long as the story is good I don't mind it. Although, I will say a character become more dynamic by their interaction with any side character. Romantically or not they become more believeable and it's easier to root for them. I think female or male, most people want to see that strong bond between characters.

Though admittedly... I did play through Dragon Age: Origins twice just to get with Alastair. Evidently a dwarven princess was not royalty enough to get married to him. So I rerolled a human noble. *Shrug*

Spoiler

But that was more to the fact I didn't want him to die rather than me wanting my character to shack up with him. Damn chivalry.

 

[hypovolemia]

The Harvest Moon and Rune Factory games come to mind. Also, the PSP version of Persona 3 lets you play as a girl, which changes the social links (and romances) a lot (and might be even more relevant to your girlfriend's interests).

She might want to consider getting into Visual Novels. Less gameplay, more story and characterization. I'd recommend Clannad, even with all the forced drama.

PS: "Lack of romance in games ignores the audience that likes romance".

 

[PhiMed]

There are a ton of romance games... in Japan. And we all see how well Japanese developers are doing right now (outside of Capcom and Nintendo, of course).

If people thought they could make money with romance games in Western markets, I assure you we'd have a lot more of them. Developers aren't ignoring anything. I'm sure they've looked at the situation and decided it isn't a good investment right now.

 

[WaderiAAA]

yes, because all girls love romance in games and the only way that any female will enjoy anything is if you force a romantic sub-plot in

You didn't read the original post, did you? For the record he said his girlfriend really wanted games with romance and he doubted she was the only one - which is a bit different from saying all girls love romantic stories and that's all they love.

two wordsating Sim

Not sure that helps though. Dating sims doesn't really have a story, and I think the story is the whole point. Telling a girl who wants love stories in games to try out dating sims would be like me saying I wanted to read the sports collumn in the paper and someone handing me a football.

 

[Danglybits]

You can't assume that because your girlfriend wants games with romance that all girls want games with romance.

That's like assuming every male wants to play COD clones with huge muscly space marines.

^this

I own some ovaries and I don't care about romances much. If they're there, they have to be relevant and well done. A shoe horned romance is likely to get me to ignore a game actually. But really that is not why I play games. If I wanted romance, I'd play a dating sim. I liked some of the romances in DAO (Morrigan and Alistair mostly because I thought they were the most polished and thought out)but I didn't play for those. I wanted to play an RPG with fun characters and go stab some shit.

You know, I don't think I've ever heard any of my fellow she-gamers say much about needing romance in their games. I don't think that lacking romance is ignoring females. It might be ignoring a dramatic element that if done right could add credibility to the game's experience; but not females in general. The OP assumes women and their tastes are far more a like than they are. Or at least posits that we are.

 

[Schadrach]

Why is it that people assume a romance sub plot is something only girls are into?

I mean, I could list a number of games that I liked that had a very deep relationship you could get into with the NPCs, but I'm a boy so what do I know right?

Ok ignoring the sexism in your post there P), you have got to play the Persona series. I played 3 and 4, you had to get to be friends with the people you where trying to date, had to get to know them, build a relationship take them places, ect. Plus, the things you say to them matter. You could say the wrong thing and make them mad at you, that could lead to a break up or them not talking to you, then you had to make it up to them. You had to be careful to keep promises, had to balance seeing them with everything else going on. Probably the deepest system for this of any game ever.

Your right about Bioware romances being largely "talk to npc untill sex scene". Which one of the 2 cut scenes you get to watch is what most choices in their games boil down to.

One of the Personas (I forget, either 3 or 4) also has what is probably the best attempt at a homosexual character in all of gaming.

 

[RabbidKuriboh]

yes, because all girls love romance in games and the only way that any female will enjoy anything is if you force a romantic sub-plot in

You didn't read the original post, did you? For the record he said his girlfriend really wanted games with romance and he doubted she was the only one - which is a bit different from saying all girls love romantic stories and that's all they love.

two wordsating Sim

Not sure that helps though. Dating sims doesn't really have a story, and I think the story is the whole point. Telling a girl who wants love stories in games to try out dating sims would be like me saying I wanted to read the sports collumn in the paper and someone handing me a football.

from what i understand of dating sims and from a conference on female characters at PAX dating sims often have quite well written female characters and depending on how much you can get into them they are supposed to be pretty good at emulating real life romance

for the time being they are probably closest we have to true romance in games

 

[KFalcon]

yes, because all girls love romance in games and the only way that any female will enjoy anything is if you force a romantic sub-plot in

This.

And also...romances are on the backburner? No wonder when you have romances in games which require you to save your village/town/city/world/universe and defeat the evil villain. I'd think love would be one of the things in the back of your mind if you were involved with a story like that. Go try dating sims, no conventional game is going to be based mainly on romances.

It hardly ignores the female audience, as romances are becoming more common lately and provided there's an option to play female you can have romances (regardless of the actual quality here). A game without romances is boring to her? tell her to go read books or watch films then or be really well read up on games before buying for the odd few that do have decent romances.

As for bioware romances, no they're not all for a steamy cutscene, the point of them is to explore the backstory of some of the characters, some are better done than others (e.g. try and romance Jack).