Lance Armstrong to be stripped of medals

[Lionsfan]

First off, to suggest that anyone in cycling during that time period was clean is just laughable. The whole sport was dirtier than....well dirt itself.

Second, Lance wasn't some guy who passed all his tests with flying colors and raised no suspicion until they started a "witchhunt". Throughout the Tour his watt/kg output was consistent with that of known dopers. He actually did positive, in '99, for a corticosteroid. Next, blood doping by transfusions wouldn't lead to a positive test on the standard piss in a cup test. Epo testing didn't start until 2000 or so, and even then is incredibly hard to catch, since it stays in your body for a few days but the effects last for weeks. In some cases, the stuff he used doesn't even have a way to test for it. He also has blood samples from '09 and '10 that are consistent with Blood Doping.

Lance was going gown and he knew it. Don't kid yourself that he was "weary of fighting" For years his only defense has been that he didn't test positive, but that's only because they didn't have the testing procedures they have now. He's had former teammates and team doctors accusing him of cheating, and not only did he deny it, but he actively tried to crush people who stood out against him, like ruin their lives crush. And right now was the crux of the entire thing, with his legacy on the line. Not in a criminal matter, it's not like Barry Bonds/Roger Clemens where if he's guilty he's going to jail, no this is purely about his legacy and he backs out. Because he's guilty and an open trial would expose pretty much everything he doesn't want exposed. Quitting now, and adding in some contempt for the process, is just a PR move.

Fun Fact, when I say cycling is dirty as dirt, I'm not exaggerating. Here is a list of the Tour De France runner-ups during his streak:

1999 -- Alex Zulle. Admitted doper in Festina affair.
2000 -- Jan Ullrich. Convicted doper, revealed during Operation Puerto scandal. Raced for ultra-dirty Team Telekom.
2001 -- Jan Ullrich.
2002 -- Joseba Beloki. Connected to Operation Puerto investigation.
2003 -- Jan Ullrich.
2004 -- Andreas Kloden. Alleged to use the Freiburg clinic for illegal transfusions (blood doping). Has spent almost his entire career, including 2004, on teams with organized doping programs.
2005 -- Ivan Basso. Convicted doper through Operation Puerto investigation. Has since returned to racing in much less impressive form.

Virtually every person that Lance shared a podium with during his time on the Tour was found guilty of doping. Including the 3 winners before him, and the 2 after him.

Lance did win, I mean they were all doping and he was the best.....but he still doped, and still cheated.

Yet there still is insufficient evidence to prove he cheated. Just a whole lot of he probably did so we'll punish him just in case.

How is first hand accounts, 10 of them I believe, from teammates and doctors, insufficient evidence? Or the fact that he tested positive in '99? Or that blood samples of his match samples from known dopers?

His only argument was, I never tested positive, which was explained by the fact that they literally couldn't test for it. And I'm just going to quote this as well:

So let me get this straight.... He's gone through a ridiculous amount of drug tests that all came up clean every single time... and they still want to declare him guilty? Whatever happened to the "innocent until proven guilty" thing?

Did you ever hear the names Marion Jones or Ben Johnson. Negative tests don't establish innocence.

This isn't baseless conjecture and there's plenty of evidence to establish that. The fact that he pulls his appeal out now, after going after every other accusation just adds to the guilt.

 

[GistoftheFist]

I really wish someone would educate people on what steroids actually are. It really seems to be misrepresented and people are quick to yell "steroids" when anyone is fit, even if they have no idea what steroids are. No, steroids don't make you bigger. They cut down on recovery time so you can exercise and train harder more often. Also, some supplements can mimic the behavior of steroids even if they are perfectly legal such as Suma.

For example, on the episode of the Simpsons where Marge starts weightlifting and is encouraged to take steroids by Ruth, the roids are portrayed as something you can buy and drink from a container which is clearly not accurate. And she still goes on to compete in a bodybuilding competition, so apparently they don't test anyone for steroids?

Another one is on South Park when Jimmy takes roids for the special olympics, we see him tying off his arm before injecting roids. For fucks sake, it's not HEROIN, nobody ties off and shoots it up. For TV shows that tell us how evil steroids are, they sure can't show us what they actually are or how they work.

If you ask me, TRT and the like shouldn't be allowed in professional sports, but if you're taking them just to use in your daily life, then I honestly don't have a problem with it. I don't care if pro wrestlers use steroids, it helps them recover faster and we get to watch great TV. Yes, longterm use can damage your organs and lead to testosterone deficiencies, but if you were to use them right when your body starts going downhill, you're in your sixties and things aren't working like they used to, why wouldn't you give yourself something that could keep you fit and for the most part healthy?

I recommend you watch this if you want to learn about steroids:

 

[smithy_2045]

How is first hand accounts, 10 of them I believe, from teammates and doctors, insufficient evidence? Or the fact that he tested positive in '99? Or that blood samples of his match samples from known dopers?

His only argument was, I never tested positive, which was explained by the fact that they literally couldn't test for it. And I'm just going to quote this as well:

This isn't baseless conjecture and there's plenty of evidence to establish that. The fact that he pulls his appeal out now, after going after every other accusation just adds to the guilt.

I personally think he's a drug cheat. But there is nothing conclusive to prove it, and until there is, there is no reason to strip him of his titles or medals or whatever.

 

[Von Strimmer]

It'd be nice if they'd actually proved he cheated before he was punished.

It would be nice if the innocent until proven guilty mentallity was upheld across the board, instead of when it is convenient.

The dude has been accused of cheating so many times I dont blame him for not responding this time. How many times must a man be accused of cheating before he says enough? He tested no for doping everytime he did a race, not to mention the credibility of some of the witnesses/accusers.

 

[RobfromtheGulag]

I guess it's kind of righteous justice that he now suffer some fallout for using the drugs. I'm not upset that he used the drugs, I'm upset that he got idolized while every other cyclist using drugs, the guys coming in 2nd and 3rd, no one even knows their names.

This being the 21st century and all I'm one of the people that contends that most of the atheletes are probably on some elixir of might or another, but the fanfare we give the winners isn't really justified.

Aside from all the racing Lance seems like a decent guy too.

 

[ramboondiea]

i heard his statement about being sick of all the crap hes been getting for years and you could really hear it in his voice, so now there is a very good chance that he will have his victories stricken from record which is a damn shame as as far as i know, he has passed every doping and drug test he has ever done.

what does rub me the wrong way tho is the USADA statement, that because he has given up, that proves he is guilty........really statements like that just make me think fuck off. he has proven time and again that he has not used drugs or illicit means in a sport that has a very long history of cheaters and even after all these year they are still hounding him.
Either show me the proof that Lance Armstrong cheated in any of those races, or leave the man alone

 

[Aptspire]

"US agency" "Tour de France" it should at least be the UCI (I think) who takes them away...

 

[smithy_2045]

Lots of people are convicted of crimes on circumstantial evidence and witness testimony.

And once again, this isn't a criminal trial. The standard of evidence is not "proven beyond a reasonable doubt". In civil actions, like this one, the normal standard is "on the balance of probabilities" (eg - at 50.1% probability the case is proven). Even within criminal trials, specific items of law (what should or should not be admitted as evidence for example) are decided on balance of the probabilities, not certainty.

Real life isn't like <insert your favorite lawyer/police show here>

Please tell me where I said it was a criminal trial, or where I said real life is like a crime show. I would love to see it.

Also, in any sort of application of statistics in real world situations, anything less than 95% confidence isn't enough.

 

[Darkgoosey666]

Hello everyone, this is his official statement on the matter

http://lancearmstrong.com/news-events/lance-armstongs-statement-of-august-23-2012

Definitely worth a read.

 

[Treaos Serrare]

this is as stupid and outright hateful as those fuckers who told a legless man he had an unfair advantage over the non-disabled runners

 

[tendaji]

this is as stupid and outright hateful as those fuckers who told a legless man he had an unfair advantage over the non-disabled runners

wut

No, seriously... wut? Can you run that by me again lol.

During the Olympics, runners were trying to disqualify one of the handicapped runners because the false legs did not have the same strain on the body as physical legs, therefore the handicapped runner had an advantage over the rest, according to those athletes.

I'll be on Lance's side for this. I mean after 12 years of accusations, it just ends up not being worth it, seeing how he is more focused on cancer than "How much winning he did." Especially seeing as the USADA has a limitation of 8 years, and they are backing up to the very beginning to try and strip him of everything that they don't even have jurisdiction for.