Lara Croft and the rape incident

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Wereraccoon

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Jun 3, 2010
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Alright I had to get this off my chest for a while now.

But WHY are people offended about the fact that she is threatened with rape in the game?

If you want to write an interesting story with a female as main character it's stupid to ignore issues that are more gender specific.
Getting raped can be a genuine threat to woman. So why not use that? If the main character is a strong likable character but a good looking woman, this threat can arise, especially when captured like she was. (considering the ones who caught her had little morale in this case)Of course I'm not saying she should get raped, but it's a frightening situation, and it will be satisfying to escape and then to break that bastard.

If we can't acknowledge problems that typically do exist specifically for gender, video game naratives won't ever be able to evolve into something bigger if you ask me.
We can't keep on acting like being a man and a woman is completely the same experience. I think the choice to throw in the threat of rape on a certain point in the game was a step in the right direction.

However then that whole thing about 'making the player feel like they have to protect her' arose and that was bullshit. He should have just admitted there is the threat of rape, and that you get the chance to fight back. Isn't the whole point of video games that you feel like the main character? What he did was distance the player from Lara and made it sound like you're the one having to protect her because she can't. (of course literally a video game character needs to get controlled... But you get my point!) So yeah that was a stupid way to protect his cause.. trying to take the middle road which only made it actually sound sexist... But aside from some bad press release I really hope they go through with it... Since it will be an important mile stone for writing but also for the charactersation of Lara.


(Disclaimer: I'm not saying it can't happen to men.. Rape that is. But you know it's less common... I would respect a game that would pull that card on us though. Again not actual rape, but the situation. I don't think most people are comfortable enough for that yet though)
 

Smooth Operator

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Oct 5, 2010
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The issue was far more fault of developers making a trailer that tried to sell the game on Lara abuse, it honestly felt like some BSDM erotica with it's peak at rape attempt.
And then Crystal Dynamics in all it's wisdom instead of explaining themselves plays dumb with "rape isn't in our vocabulary", "getting physical with women isn't rape",...

If you do take on mature topics then you also need to approach them maturely, which they have not, and that is what sparked the great outcry in all sorts of directions (simplest one being calling everything sexist as is fashionable right now).

But how many of you talked about Dragon Age's take on rape, or the one in Witcher?
Haven't seen anything in particular said about it, I predict it is mostly because it was not used as a sales pitch, it was just part of the story told which people could digest in a contextual and reasonable way.
 

DementedSheep

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Jan 8, 2010
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I don?t even think there was that much of an uproar over that and it was mostly about the dev comments and industry trends anyway not the actual scene in the game. The devs handled the issue badly.
Most of the people making the noise and starting threads about it seem to be the ones calling anyone who got upset over it stupid or wanting to know why people are upset.
This seems to be a common occurrence. Something is a bit controversial, some people get upset about it or maybe someone somewhere writes a blog on it and then there is a backlash against the people who got upset that is far bigger and makes the issue seem far worse than it ever was.
 

General Twinkletoes

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Jan 24, 2011
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It's because the way they did it.
They wanted to make her less over sexualised, which is fine. What they ended up doing is making her over sexualised from the far other, creepier end of the spectrum. She's someone you're going to have to save and protect her, and stop the bad men from getting her, instead of her actually saving herself.

The way they've put it, it sounds like they've almost fetishised it.
People often misunderstand the outroar is just because of the fact that there is rape, when it's not. If a game story comes out that has a rape scene handled well, IE not some white knight scenario, then that's a good thing, and could help gaming be taken more seriously.

EDIT: Also, think of how it's kind of creepy to use a rape scene to help sell the game.
Do books or movies with a rape scene advertise that? Hell no, they say they've got a dark story. They tried to sell having a rape scene as a feature. IDK about you, but that seems pretty creepy to me.
 

ultrachicken

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Dec 22, 2009
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I think the advertising campaign and the PR department's scrambling was horribly done. They made the scene out to be much different than people would have otherwise taken it. If they hadn't begun to tread the line of fetishizing abuse, and if their backpedaling hadn't caused them to trip over themselves in such a spectacular fashion, Crystal Dynamics would have been fine, because otherwise that scene would have just been about Lara's continuing face-off with this hellish situation she's now in, and her triumph over the troubles that plague her.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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The thing I don't get is people saying they were creepily sexualizing her.

I mean... really?

Were you chaps really getting hard watching Lara get spattered with blood or impaled on a bit of scrap metal?

Because I was wincing and thinking, "Oh shit, that looked painful." I had assumed that was the expected reaction.
 

Erttheking

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Frankly I'm tired of the whole thing because some people on this very website aren't going to buy the game simply because they refuse to let go of what one douchebag said when he opened his motherfucking moth. Yeah, the whole situation pisses me right the fuck off. Frankly if I learned one thing from this whole mess it's that I don't want to ever work in the video game industry, because it's going to be nothing but people telling me how much I fucked up no matter what I do.
 

RedEyesBlackGamer

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Jan 23, 2011
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Lara Croft was almost raped. Okay. Only it wasn't really rape because "rape isn't in their vocabulary". The blatant backpedaling was just embarrassing. You made a scene where Lara Croft was almost sexually abused. Man up and defend it (or admit it was a mistake) instead of pretending that it didn't happen.
 

Baron von Blitztank

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May 7, 2010
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Matthew94 said:
Someone else made this but I'm going to use it anyway.



We've been over this so many times. The "uproar" came from using rape as a motivation to protect lara and using it as a selling point.

Here is a related thread I made.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.382863-What-was-acceptable-about-your-character-being-brutally-raped-in-FEAR-2
Ok, How the hell did you make that image? You've striked my curiosity good sir!

I think the problem is less with what the trailer showed and more of how Crystal Dynamics dealt with it. There may have been some form of implied rape in the trailer, there may not have been. But once people started drawing those links Crystal Dynamics whimpered and backed themselves into a corner saying whatever they could to get people off their back which only pissed off people more and they didn't man up and defend whatever it was they were trying to do. The resulting fallout lead "rape" to being a hot word (more so than normal) for a couple of months or so where nobody could say the word publicly in a humorous tone without getting a slew of backlash for it.

For me I couldn't give a toss. The game could have implied rape or not but from I could tell it wasn't glorifying it so there was no real problem. I'll focus on finding out if the game is any good first, then I'll concentrate on giving a fuck about the plot.
 

Shadowstar38

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Jul 20, 2011
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Well, there's nothing wrong with rape

...

Rephrase. There's nothing wrong with using it in story telling in the way you described it. But, the weird thing is, it's kind of common for females to get sexually assulted in video games.

I noticed this in Dead Island, where I went to a prison and it was heavily implied they were going to rape the females I brought with me. And then in Arkham City, the inmates talk about what they'd do if they "got their hands on: Catwoman.

Women are never a threat in the way of the villain. They're just there for someone to have sex with. Would help if we treated females exactly like we treat males in games. That way rape isnt used merely as shock value.
 

A Weakgeek

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Baron von Blitztank said:
Matthew94 said:
Baron von Blitztank said:
Matthew94 said:
snip snip
Err, I said I didn't make it. I just linked it.

A Weakgeek said:
Click the username to follow the post back to the thread.
Oops, sorry. Guess I didn't read it properly (or possibly at all). Now to begin my Google quest for Star Wars opening text editors
Just so you know, that image was made by me with the offical crawl creator (yes... there is one)
[link]http://www.starwars.com/play/online-activities/crawl-creator/[/link]

I probably over estimated this forum by writing "a couple of days" though... a couple hours would probably have been more accurate.
 

Baron von Blitztank

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May 7, 2010
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A Weakgeek said:
Baron von Blitztank said:
Matthew94 said:
Baron von Blitztank said:
Matthew94 said:
snip snip
Err, I said I didn't make it. I just linked it.

A Weakgeek said:
Click the username to follow the post back to the thread.
Oops, sorry. Guess I didn't read it properly (or possibly at all). Now to begin my Google quest for Star Wars opening text editors
Just so you know, that image was made by me with the offical crawl creator (yes... there is one)
[link]http://www.starwars.com/play/online-activities/crawl-creator/[/link]

I probably over estimated this forum by writing "a couple of days" though... a couple hours would probably have been more accurate.
Thanks a tonne! And so abruptly ends my Google quest!
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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one great big overreaction

THERE WAS NO RAPE IN THE TRAILER THERE WILL BE NO RAPE IN THE GAME

1. peoples interpretation of "sexist" (usually in regards to women, varies as much as peoples veiw on politics and by that I mean is..when it comes to what can be considered "sexst" or "not"..especially when it comes to fiction...its a really really big grey area. And I think people need to keep that in mind more often...thats why you get people saying confused "well if you make her distressed its sexist! if you make her invincible its sexist!..what gives?" and it gets confusing

like some people belive Disneys beauty and the beast is bad in that it portrays an abusive relationship and re-enforces the Idea "I can fix him!"...where as others just see it as a gorgeous film with a smart female protag...(I'm in the gorgeous film catagory)

2. this is, as far as I know an "origin" story so no, Lara is not going to be confidently gunning down enemies and monsters or whatever as if she's been doing it since "like, forever" as far as I know she's a young women straight out of schoool/uni/college....going "indana jones" I imagine is somthing that takes a little practice

3. main reason, Lara's "struggle" is not ment to make her apear weak the most intense "edge of your seat" moments in any story are the ones where the hero is on the edge...when they are alomost defeated...both physically and mentally, and its the moment where they keep going even when they can't

this is what makes us empathise, theres a reason "invinvible" heros are seen as boring....

and somwhat unrelated but also in some fiction (not all..worst examples) where the female charachter does her "waif fu" thing and never gets a scratch...that may seem progressive in making her "strong" but in fact its actually patronising...the guys get the "real" fight..where the girl just does her silly little thing....as if the henchmen as "pre-planned it" to "give her somthing to do"

oposite example would be Alien/Aliens where Ripley is REALLY in danger
 

Ryan Griffiths

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May 27, 2011
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Vault101 makes a good point.

It's good to see your heroes get hurt otherwise it would be like reading Superman comics without a handy clump of Kryptonite.

I believe the main issue with the whole Lara Croft thing, is simply put; For years she was a sexuallised female character who did very little besides jump around, shoot and look pretty. And maybe drown if I was in a bad mood.

But what you have to take into consideration is a poor taste of the trailer. But look at the publicity it got. A good trailer will spark conversation. People talk about it. People go "Oh my god, Lara got raped." (or not raped). Let's face it, similarly to Mario, Lara Croft has had her day, there isn't a lot more you can do with the franchise other than maybe to a Nathan Drake/Lara Croft sex tape.

Look, I'm not condoning what was in the trailer, because it was in poor taste, it's turned a lot of people off buying the product, it wasn't pleasant to watch, but the fact that it can happen to Lara Croft, a character that has been with us for over a decade? Well, that takes some balls, and it will spark emotion from loyal fans. Mission accomplished. Unfortunately, just like the Hitman trailer - bad press doesn't always help your cause.
 

GiantRaven

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Dec 5, 2010
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GeneralTwinkle said:
She's someone you're going to have to save and protect her, and stop the bad men from getting her, instead of her actually saving herself.
What? If you're playing the actual character, how are they not saving themselves if you play the game?
 

Angie7F

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Nov 11, 2011
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I just think its was a way of writing a story.
Other characters get kidnapped and stuff, so why the hell not?
 

anthony87

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Aug 13, 2009
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Well considering there was no rape I'm just as stumped as you OP. It was just one big over-reaction from keyboard warriors as far as I'm concerned.